Updates to Hulk Events and S.H.I.E.L.D. Training (11/15/17)

Sm0keyJ0e

This is a bonus event. In no way does it stall or halt your advancement in the game. Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to complete it. Do what you can, reap the rewards for a bonus side event, and go back to your regularly scheduled program.

I have no problem with their intent behind this event. If it were a regular PVE, I think I'd have more of an issue.

Jesus Jones

I got half of the main board done on the first day, that's a HUGE improvement!  Still kinda shady but an improvement none the less.

Bryan Lambert

@Brigby

I understand that you probably can’twon’t answer this, but since you pass feedback along to your developers, please pass this feedback along to whatever middle manager writes your talking points.

When they make you say something like:

”Having dedicated so much time and effort, these are the players that have worked hard to grow a large and formidable roster. 

In recognition of this, we wanted to create an extra event that allowed these players to showcase their roster strength, and gain rewards from completing these challenging missions”

I have a large roster. I have a formidable roster. I’ve dedicated four years of time and effort to do so. It’s not the strongest roster, but I have one of every character, three champed 5’s, and all but the four most recent 4-stars (and Howard) champed.

I can do two rows out of five.

And I’m fine with being able to do two rows. As far as I’m concerned, as long as it’s new content, and not changes to existing content, D3 and Demi can gate rewards however they want. No complaints there. You’ve set a standard I don’t meet, and I accept that. But you’ve described the standard as something I do meet, and there’s the problem.

When you’re given deliberately false, nice-sounding criteria for who this gating is supposed to reward, everyone who meets the false criteria and not the REAL criteria of spending money, competitive alliance play, and top 5 new release placement, knows that’s not rain on their leg, and feels worse than if they’d just been told “We wanted to reward the players who can acquire new character covers the fastest”. 

Nightglider1

dr tinykittylove said:

What happened to events like Growth Industry, Amadeus's inferno or the coulson or guardians events where you could get a cover as long as you can beat the nodes? 

I'm sure, much like the days where Heroic 10-packs included a guaranteed character, the devs decided that wasn't any fun for the players so they eliminated them.

scottee

I have no problem with the intent of the event. The problem is just the level of requirement.

Requiring 11 covers of a new 4* character basically means you gave the entire playerbase a node that can only be completed if you placed 1st in every debut event, or if you spend a ton of cash on new tokens.

This creates a disconnect for players who see this level of expectation. It's a node to reward only a handful of the most committed players...or whales.

Honestly, if you only required like 5 Nightcrawler covers instead of 11, I'd have no problem with the event, even though I still wouldn't be able to complete it. That still requires achievement without requiring an unrealistic amount of it.

PenniesForEveryone

Is there no  balance in difficulty to be found between "trivially easy" and "literally impossible due to lack of covers?"

smkspy

I find it especially humorous the decrease to 94 for the second node as if that's some consolation prize for pleeples that don't whale that character.

At least, make the third node like 150 where it only takes around 8 covers, which is a far more reasonable and attainable possibly for so-called "long term and decorated players" this "extra" event provides. 

Otherwise, call it what it is, a bonus for whales that pay to build a character first week. 

LifeofAgony

Thankfully mods can’t lock this thread so I’ll add my 2cents.

Players are once again upset because the devs come out making this sweeping statement of acknowledgment of past mistakes and that they’re taking steps to address those concerns, and then, do the exact same thing again.

Putting the most recent 4* with a 10 cover minimum to complete the event doesn’t reward long-time play or having a deep roster.  

The player base  is tired of of being misled - just be transparent.

”we listened to concerns and have made the middle a little more accessible but if you want to finish, you’ll need the latest 4* basically covered to fully complete event”

youll see much less backlash over honesty as opposed to making things sound better than they are.  

RedLion

Maybe the devs could be a little more straightforward, but Brigby states it (almost) plainly. SHIELD training is bonus ISO and what not, designed for the game's investors. It increases the value of their investment. My nightcrawler is at 5 covers. I will be able to do some, but not all, of the event.

We'd all like to believe that if everything was free, then enough people would donate money to keep the game afloat. The reality is that value has to increase over time for investors to keep investing. SHIELD training is a relatively innocuous way for the devs to do that. 

To me, SHIELD training may not be perfect, but there are bigger problems in MPQ right now.

PenniesForEveryone

smkspy said:

I find it especially humorous the decrease to 94 for the second node as if that's some consolation prize for pleeples that don't whale that character.

At least, make the third node like 150 where it only takes around 8 covers, which is a far more reasonable and attainable possibly for so-called "long term and decorated players" this "extra" event provides. 

Otherwise, call it what it is, a bonus for whales that pay to build a character first week. 

By getting rid of the increased odds release event packs and only having the vaults it's FAR more expensive to whale a new character as well.  Previously packs had I think 6% odds, so you got 2.4 covers/40-pack.  Say you earn 6 in release, pick up three or four 40-packs (for 48-64k HP) and you are done.  Now a 40-pack gets you a 50/50 shot at exactly one cover from the vault and never any more than that.  The exact odds on the vault are I think hard to calculate, but it's probably close to 15k/cover which is about double the cost.

freakygeek

To pitch in. 

I get that there are other ways of getting the new 4* but this way is disheartening for most players. 

It was great when the Rogue one was rolled out and those of us veterans who had the required characters brought them out (XFW out of mothballs) to win the reward.  But veterans are not going to be able to do this one any more than a newbie.  I have 4 covers on NightCrawler and I am missing a color and I am further along than anyone else in my alliance.  If I sank all my CP into him I might have enough ISO to do it but that is far from worth it.

With all that is going on with Battlefront II these days I would think that companies would be want to treat their clients a little better now.

Richyyy

Funny thing is, my Rogue is now at 3/4/3 - exactly what she needs to be to be able to raise her to lvl209. As someone who plays the game a lot (and for a long time) but doesn't spend vast sums of money, that suggests that if you'd just run these SHIELD Training events one character further back they'd be viable for a lot more people and piss a lot fewer people off.

Or, what I'd prefer - just make them really freaking hard. Boost only the characters you want people to spend on, so it still earns money the same way it does already, but don't actually gate it by covers at all. Let people try the final PlanetHulk/LT nodes with 1*s if they want, and get creamed. Let them try it with strong champed 4*s and maybe get close 1 time in 10. Let the champed 5* players likely manage it, but if you set up the boosts right maybe have more issues than a champed Nightcrawler would have. Wouldn't that be better?

broll

Brigby said:

We wanted to provide some more information on the intent behind S.H.I.E.L.D. Training, and what some of the adjustments to it are moving forward.

It's no surprise that there are players in our community who are long-time supporters of the game, veterans that have been with us since the beginning, and many players in between/in both categories. Having dedicated so much time and effort, these are the players that have worked hard to grow a large and formidable roster. 

In recognition of this, we wanted to create an extra event that allowed these players to showcase their roster strength, and gain rewards from completing these challenging missions. At the same time though, we still wanted to give other players the opportunity to participate, as an additional bonus to the reward structure players are used to.

This statement is either willfully misleading or written by someone with the most backward logic I can think of...  These events do neither of these things...  Having a character that hasn't been in CP packs yet 13 covered and leveled to 209 is in no way related to having a large and formidable roster.  It also doesn't give players an opportunity to participate because the entry fee is so tinykitty high...  This is the biggest complaint is that players can't compete and yet you claim your goal is to allow player too, bold.  Either you're lying or you've have failed miserably...

Brigby said:

We've heard a lot of your feedback, and we're making a couple of adjustments to have the event be easier to comprehend, and opened up more to allow for increased player participation. Please keep in mind, this is still a new event in MPQ, so please feel free to continue providing feedback, as we do take all of it into consideration.

• We've updated the background to make it easier to tell what order the missions are
• The middle row of missions in S.H.I.E.L.D. Training had its required level lowered to 94 (from 120)

Did anyone find the old background confusing? They must not play PvE where often times nodes are scattered in a random order with no attempt at logic..

The problem was never the middle row, it's the bottom row....

What would make this a lot better and better fit the goals you listed;
1.  Go back to the original format (horizontal vs vertical, 3 sets of 4 vs 4 sets of 3)
2.  Row 1 requires 3 Vintage 4* at 4 different level requirements.
3.  Row 2 requires 3 Latest/Featured 4*s at 4 different level requirements.
4.  Row 3 requires 3 Championed 4* characters (Vintage or Latest) per node (can't reuse characters between nodes, 12 champions required total)
5.  Make the bottom node not the new character, but the previous, so Nightcrawler instead of Hulk for this event.
6.  Have a single node (maybe two) for the new character that give really high rewards (but missing them doesn't keep you from the overall event progression rewards, ala 5*s in PvE)

This would probably not be accepted because they don't meet with your not mentioned but painfully obvious objective of trying to get people to throw real money at buying covers for the latest two characters.

mbaren

Some background: I'm a 1400+ day player, so as you might imagine I have a pretty decent roster.  But I'm not in a position to be highly competitive, nor am I in a highly competitive alliance.  I spend money here and there on the game (let's say around $20/mo.), which doesn't make me a whale, but I'm pretty consistent, which should make me the kind of player that D3 wants to keep.

I came in to the Shield Training with a 1/1/2 Nightcrawler, which was one of the best outcomes I could expect based on the description of my activity above - I got one cover from a vault when he first came out, one from a progression reward, and one from placing in the top 100 in whatever event he got introduced (I don't remember where the fourth one came from).  Obviously there were ways to get more covers, but 1/1/2 is still pretty great, all things considered.  And you lowered the middle tier from 120, so yay!  I can actually play that one now, so I appreciate the change.

But, for practical purposes, there's still no way for me to do any of the nodes that require 209, and barring some absolutely extraordinary RNG luck, I won't get there in 6 days.  I'll probably get, on average, 1 Legendary or Classic pull per day, but without spending money I'd say achieving 5 more Nightcrawler covers in 6 days is a non-starter.

And that sucks. I've put in the time (and continue to do so), I pay money, and I still feel like I'm being blocked.  I get that there are some players who've got tons of LT or CP saved (or can throw lots of money at the game) and for them they can get a Nightcrawler to 209 with just a few clicks, but I'd have to guess that for the vast majority of players that's not possible.

I know this information won't come out, but I'm genuinely curious what percentage of the player base actually will get to that final node.  I'd have to think it's extraordinarily low - is it worth servicing those players? I mean, I guess it must be, because you've presumably done an economic analysis and concluded there's value to you there, but to be it feels like there'd be more value in being more inclusive.

Anyway, I guess I'll get a new Hulk cover in any case, since I reliably finish in the top 100 of any story event, but I also know that unless I get more Hulk covers now, I'll be blocked again from top tiers in the *next* Shield Training.  Big spenders or big savers keep getting rewarded, and the rest of us get left behind.  I don't know, man - I get that this is a "bonus" event, and I'm glad you put it in, but it's still really frustrating.

astrp3

broll said:

This statement is either willfully misleading or written by someone with the most backward logic I can think of...  These events do neither of these things...  ...

To be fair to D3, I think the claim that "these events do neither of these things" is misleading as well. After all, it's not like players with developed rosters get zero rewards from these events. I don't have a level 209 Nightcrawler, but I do have Thor and Star-Lord champed and was thus able to get a handful of event tokens and a small chunk of ISO for very little work. 

Now you might argue that the changes they made this time around don't further the goal of rewarding players with developed rosters any more than the previous iteration did, or even that they represent a step in the other direction away from that goal (since you now need a less-developed roster to complete the middle row).

You might also argue that yes, players with developed rosters can get more rewards than those with undeveloped roster, but for those without the latest 4*, the difference is negligible or that they aren't getting the best rewards or even that they aren't getting the only rewards that matter (the 4* cover and the LT), but that's a different argument.

DAC169

Brigby said:

S.H.I.E.L.D. Training
It's no surprise that there are players in our community who are long-time supporters of the game, veterans that have been with us since the beginning, and many players in between/in both categories. Having dedicated so much time and effort, these are the players that have worked hard to grow a large and formidable roster. 

In recognition of this, we wanted to create an extra event that allowed these players to showcase their roster strength, and gain rewards from completing these challenging missions.

No, you're wanting to reward just the players that spend thousands of dollars on the game. The fact that you're requiring the newest 4* character, who only just entered packs yesterday, to be level 209 proves it.
DC comics called. Larfleeze wants his ring back.

Brigby said:

S.H.I.E.L.D. Training
We've heard a lot of your feedback, and we're making a couple of adjustments to have the event be easier to comprehend, and opened up more to allow for increased player participation. Please keep in mind, this is still a new event in MPQ, so please feel free to continue providing feedback, as we do take all of it into consideration.

• We've updated the background to make it easier to tell what order the missions are
• The middle row of missions in S.H.I.E.L.D. Training had its required level lowered to 94 (from 120)

1. This one wasn't confusing at all. The ones that need fixed most are the third sub of Hearts of Darkness and The Hunt: Florida.
2. That's nice and all, but the level 209 requirement needed to also be dropped, by a much greater amount

Calnexin

Brigby said:

. Having dedicated so much time and effort, these are the players that have worked hard to grow a large and formidable roster. 

Amen!  I just champed my 50th 4* and I'm up to over 150 roster slots.  Bring it on!

*Sees Nightcrawler essential*

<sniff> But... large.  Formidable. <sniff>

veny

How about rotating SHIELD training again and again, with random required 4*s outside of new releases?
We should reward collectors somehow, and building huge roster full of maxed characters is the point of the game, but this event takes the best of it and hides it behind a paywall.

firethorne

Brigby said:

It's no surprise that there are players in our community who are long-time supporters of the game, veterans that have been with us since the beginning, and many players in between/in both categories. Having dedicated so much time and effort, these are the players that have worked hard to grow a large and formidable roster. 

In recognition of this, we wanted to create an extra event that allowed these players to showcase their roster strength, and gain rewards from completing these challenging missions. At the same time though, we still wanted to give other players the opportunity to participate, as an additional bonus to the reward structure players are used to.

But, you aren't doing any of that.  This isn't about growing a large roster.  You're creating a reward for people who shelled out to dump a lot into the two latest characters in the game in a hurry.  Veterans and long-time supporters are still screwed out of this without covering and leveling Nightcrawler who's been in the game a very short time, and Hulk who has been literally unattainable before this week. 

Look, if you want to create an additional reward for the people who spend some money and whale characters the day they come out, whatever.  You may need to motivate people so you can hit some financial benchmarks.  You want a reward for whales.  And you don't want to come out and say that, because you're probably aware EA just got the dubious honor of the most down-voted comment ever on Reddit for statements related to micro-transactions.   We get it.  But, don't make up a story that this is a reward for veterans, because that's just insulting to the veterans who are just as unable to complete these as the players who just started this week.

Feedback: you're really testing people's patience.  And, you really didn't have a lot of goodwill built up in this area to begin with.  Take some notes from the EA situation, and realize trying to put too much spin on something players don't like can go south really quickly.     

As for it being a new event, it really isn't.  The concept of events of this type isn't new.  Growth Industry, Amadeus' Inferno, Inside Job...  but they didn't lock you out.  The event type isn't new, the restrictions locking people out are new.  Go back to the Growth Industry template.  If having the new character isn't reward enough for the players buying their way to new characters in a week, give them some sort of kickback during the actual buying process.  Because dangling events that 90% or more of your player base can't complete just isn't cool.  "You're not supposed to play." is no better a solution than "You're supposed to lose."  

zodiac339

The questions I have are
If we get a 4* release before the season ends, will that still require Main Event Hulk and
If ME Hulk (YOU Thor, heh) is required, will he be added to tokens to give everyone a chance to get him to 209?
Nightcrawler going to tokens worked for that this time, but only a top 10 Story, top 5 Versus player could get ME Hulk to 209 without extrordinary luck in vault pulls or massive HP buying. Or wasting maybe 240 or more CP directly increasing covers.