MPQ at Marvel.com: Hulk (Main Event) (11/15/17)

mega ghost

DarthDeVo said:

At 5 yellow covers at Level 270, it's too bad the AoE damage numbers and burst healing numbers aren't reversed. 

You know, given his solid nuke, and the fact that he'll probably be targeted as a character you want out of the match early on due to the AP generation and acceleration, I'm ok with having less AoE damage in favor of better burst healing as it will give him more longevity and increase his window of time to accelerate things and get out more nukes.

Edit: Normally I ignore burst self-heal characters until I can one-hit them, but that strategy doesn't work as well with Hulk as it'll mean he now has time to load up on AP and be a real threat. Basically, you want to deny purple and yellow and eliminate him before he can get his yellow out, because once he does there's a good chance you're in for some hurt, or at the very best your damage to him has been erased.

DarthDeVo

mega ghost said:

DarthDeVo said:

At 5 yellow covers at Level 270, it's too bad the AoE damage numbers and burst healing numbers aren't reversed. 

You know, given his solid nuke, and the fact that he'll probably be targeted as a character you want out of the match early on due to the AP generation and acceleration, I'm ok with having less AoE damage in favor of better burst healing as it will give him more longevity and increase his window of time to accelerate things and get out more nukes.

 true, I suppose. I was just comparing his AoE to others in the tier like G4ocket and Vulture, if you set a green tile before going airborne. And Hulk's is coming up way short of those particular two. 

mega ghost

DarthDeVo said:

mega ghost said:

DarthDeVo said:

At 5 yellow covers at Level 270, it's too bad the AoE damage numbers and burst healing numbers aren't reversed. 

You know, given his solid nuke, and the fact that he'll probably be targeted as a character you want out of the match early on due to the AP generation and acceleration, I'm ok with having less AoE damage in favor of better burst healing as it will give him more longevity and increase his window of time to accelerate things and get out more nukes.

 true, I suppose. I was just comparing his AoE to others in the tier like G4ocket and Vulture, if you set a green tile before going airborne. And Hulk's is coming up way short of those particular two. 

Oh, totally, but I'm seeing his yellow as a self-heal and AP generation tool with AoE tacked on as more of a bonus damage source for wiping out low-level goons, primarily in wave battles since it takes time to fire the power. His nuke is his real threat, which can potentially still down more than one enemy due to the critical tiles — in some instances it might act as an AoE. 

And with a health pool of 18523, you sort of need to just start aiming at him right away and hope to kill him before he gets going, you can't just leave him in the background like Daken or another self-healer and plan to nuke him when you have a free nuke ready, as very few nukes can take him at full health.

brisashi

I think this is another case of forum goers dismissing a character at first glance prematurely. Remember how bad everyone thought the reworked 4* Star Lord looked when they first announced the changes? It is very different when you use them in game and see how they play with other characters.

I feel like this hulk has a bit of everything. He has plenty of AP generation between his yellow and green abilities, and you can't underestimate the strong possibility of starting a match with extra AP over your opponent.

While a bit pricey, his purple seems well worth the cost. For one thing he has his own AP generation to help you get there and at level 5 you are practically guaranteed to have cascades across the board doing good damage and fueling even more AP.

Jaedenkaal

brisashi said:

While a bit pricey, his purple seems well worth the cost. For one thing he has his own AP generation to help you get there and at level 5 you are practically guaranteed to have cascades across the board doing good damage and fueling even more AP.

Strictly speaking, you only need 4 covers to get the maximum cascade potential. The 5th cover is "merely" an extra 83% damage. Merely.

cooperbigdaddy

If Hulk is at full health when his yellow goes off, will it still try to heal him randomly or only do damage or gain ap?

Jaedenkaal

cooperbigdaddy said:

If Hulk is at full health when his yellow goes off, will it still try to heal him randomly or only do damage or gain ap?

It still tries to heal him. Which is as awkward as it sounds.

mega ghost

Jaedenkaal said:

cooperbigdaddy said:

If Hulk is at full health when his yellow goes off, will it still try to heal him randomly or only do damage or gain ap?

It still tries to heal him. Which is as awkward as it sounds.

Yep, that was my experience with the loaner. The healing will likely factor in more strongly on defense, as an active player will target him.

hopper1979

So is it a true heal (is burst true healing) from the yellow and with 5 covers in the green do you get 2 extra matches at the start of each turn or just the very first turn after the tiles are destroyed?  Those two question are key to this being a good character or a great one, his purple is nasty, the 5 crits alone will be devastating on a team with a 5 star.  

Powers up now up in character menu it is a shuffle not a match.  Not as good as 2 matches but still good potential there.

DrDevilDinosaur

I wasn't as impressed with the loaner as some in the thread have been. I did struggle to get any Yellow or Purple AP at all, so that certainly factored into my initial opinion.

I'm still leaning towards leaving yellow at rank 3 - it's 4 CD tiles instead of 5, and the AP generation is still the same, so I don't think that misses out on too much.

I'd be interested to run Hulk alongside Rogue - there's no overlap on active abilities, and Power Siphon could be used to help rush Gamma Bomb (also Roar at the Crowd, but at 14 AP that's on the threshold of Rogue blowing herself up so you'd need to gain that last AP without ending your turn).

Anon

Hulks Purple just one shot a full health Thor with the accompanying critical tiles and the resulting cascade devastated Mr Fantastic. That's going to be a nightmare on a boosted week. I'm really coming around on him.

jredd

only used the loaner so far, but that green, ugh. the last thing this game needs is another character doing automatic, random board moves. the ai does not make the best decisions when it comes to these things, often times taking away/ruining what would be the best move.

my suggestion would be a power that when used allows the player to take an extra turn at 2-4 covers and 2 extra turns at 5 covers. fire off your purple, then fire the green and match all those critical tiles. 

TheHungryPet

Pretty unimpressed so far. 

1) Abilities are very expensive, slow character
2) Green tile shuffling seems more annoying than helpful. I feel like it messes up your strategy more than it helps
3) Green ability also puts your cd and other special tiles at risk
4) Green ability makes matches longer. This is not as painful as attack tiles but still a delay

Health pool is nice and purple potentially devastating. Also like that the yellow tiles are fortified.

Don't see a lot of synergy with other characters. SW could be a purple battery but team damage and 5 turn stun are hard to compete with.

Jaedenkaal

hopper1979 said:

So is it a true heal (is burst true healing) from the yellow and with 5 covers in the green do you get 2 extra matches at the start of each turn or just the very first turn after the tiles are destroyed?  Those two question are key to this being a good character or a great one, his purple is nasty, the 5 crits alone will be devastating on a team with a 5 star.  

Powers up now up in character menu it is a shuffle not a match.  Not as good as 2 matches but still good potential there.

1) Burst healing is specifically NOT true healing.

2) They are not extra matches, they are tile swaps. Like Devil Dino's Purple. They -might- result in a match, or (more likely) they might not. If they do result in a match, you do get the damage and the AP (and whatever else happens)

TheHungryPet said:

Don't see a lot of synergy with other characters. SW could be a purple battery but team damage and 5 turn stun are hard to compete with.

He should have pretty good synergy with characters that make Strike tiles, or care about countdown tiles existing/expiring. Agree that both his actives are pretty expensive, but they do both generate AP once they've been fired (on average) so there's just that push to get them off once. I hear Star-Lord and Grocket make pretty good partners.

Rogue seems like a decent combo to get to 12 Yellow faster (probably not Purple, though). Hulk's start-of turn swaps might give you AP that you can actually use before Power Siphon blows it up.

murrayb67

mega ghost said:

It's just as likely that this passive will inconvenience you as it will aid you in any way.

This. He keeps swapping away matches I was about to make. Annoying in the same way that 5* Hulk frequently matches away my countdown tiles.

Keirain1982

JSP869

Jaedenkaal said:

Marc Spector said:

jamesh said:

It'll probably be important to pay attention if you run R&G and Hulk together on the same team: you'd want Hulk's tile destruction to be activated before R&G's strike tile placement rather than the reverse.

Good point, @jamesh! Have you (or anyone else here) ever tested how the order of "at the start of match" moves are determined? (I assume it would be the same as the tie-breaking character-select-screen order of centre->left->right... I'll experiment later today with Peggy and R&G)

The real question is, when does the ENEMY Grand Entrance trigger? If it's at the start of the battle then you, as the player, will reap the benefits of the ensuing cascade. (Twice, if you have one too. Gonna be a fun intro PVP)

I believe in spite of the power's text saying it occurs at the start of the battle, the AI MEHulk's "start of the battle" passive actually resolves at the start of the AI's first turn, and not at the start of the battle, i.e., immediately prior to the Player's first turn.

Because of the potential for cascades from the "start of the battle" move, I'm still not entirely sure if the AI MEHulk gets an extra move with its "start of the turn" passive also resolving at the start of its first turn, however, given that ALL of the AI's "start of the turn" passives always resolve on the AI's very first turn, an AI team fielding MEHulk most likely gets this advantage over the Player as well.

himatako

JSP869 said:

I believe in spite of the power's text saying it occurs at the start of the battle, the AI MEHulk's "start of the battle" passive actually resolves at the start of the AI's first turn, and not at the start of the battle, i.e., immediately prior to the Player's first turn.

Because of the potential for cascades from the "start of the battle" move, I'm still not entirely sure if the AI MEHulk gets an extra move with its "start of the turn" passive also resolving at the start of its first turn, however, given that ALL of the AI's "start of the turn" passives always resolve on the AI's very first turn, an AI team fielding MEHulk most likely gets this advantage over the Player as well.

4* Rocket & Groot is an exception to this, as they place their strike tiles during the player's first turn.

I believe "start of the battle" really means before entering anybody's turn at all. However, depending on the consequence of each power, the activation time can be changed. In case of Grand Entrance, it doesn't benefit the enemy if the power activates in the player's turn, and thus it is moved to the enemy's first turn instead. 

JSP869

I can't help but think of this with a Magic:TCG mindset, i.e., in phases, so there is a "start of the battle" phase when ALL "start of the battle" passives should resolve, then there's a start of the turn" phase where the active team's "start of the turn" passive should resolve, and then there's your actual turn.

If MEHulk's "start of the battle" passive does NOT occur at the start of the battle for the AI player, which it does not, then the wording of the power needs to be changed to say it resolves "at the start of the first turn".

Good luck getting something like this corrected, though.

The effects of Riri's Magnetic Repulsors do NOT resolve in the order it states in the power's description, I posted about this conflict between the power's effects and text almost two years ago now (August 2017), and I even rewrote the text myself so a simple copy & paste would have the power's text accurately reflect the order in which the effects resolve. Two years ago! It would be a simple 2-minute fix, if even that long and yet it's still never been fixed.

This is important to me because powers should resolve when they say they will, and in the order they say they will. So when a power says it occurs "at the start of the battle" it should occur at the start of the battle, and not at the start of the team's very first turn, because the start of the second team's first turn is NOT the start of the battle.

ThaRoadWarrior

Having powers resolve when they ought to, or when it's sensical for them to do so would be nice. See also: Opponent Chavez sidekicks you in the face somewhere after YOUR Start of Turn powers all resolve (as opposed to on the opponent turn when the conditions are met), leading to a somewhat unexpected hit point loss. Also Elektr4's black waiting to the end of a cascade to aggregate the return damage rather than happening when the tile is removed.

that all being said, Gran Entrance is still one of the most reliable anti-4ocket powers I have in my arsenal (until Sabertooth hits tokens) and i really enjoy it set to 5.