Bold Claim about Punisher Netflix

Richyyy

I also really enjoyed the way Jessica Jones was shot (before we worry about those pesky things like storyline and characterisation). The visuals and stylisation were interesting and worth paying attention to. A lot of Daredevil just seemed dark and grainy for the sake of being dark and grainy. Luke Cage felt like it wanted to lean towards blaxploitation but didn't have the guts to go all the way. Iron Fist (what I lasted through) was just kind of a mess.

Beer40

I've pretty much enjoyed every Marvel character based series I've ever watched, including the cartoons! I also liked all of the movies. 

At the same time, I've had issues with them all too. Because nothing is perfect. Nevertheless, I still was able to find enjoyment in all of them. 

Currently, I have not seen GotG2, Spider-Man: Homecoming, and Thor: Ragnarok as far as movies go. For TV, the only ones I'm aware I've missed are Defenders (on the last few episodes of Iron Fist before starting), Agents of Shield (didn't look like something I wanted to watch, so haven't given it an actual chance), and The Gifted (waiting its turn on the DVR right now). 

I find it that I'm more critical of the X related things because those are the ones I want to love most. I have high expectations of everything X, because I loved those comics. Will tv and movies ever top that? Its highly unlikely, but a movie or tv show is still enjoyable, although not as good as the original. I had no expectations for Luke Cage or Jessica Jones because I knew who they were but never got into the characters. So I thought those shows were great. I'm sure "true" fans wouldn't agree, although I hope they could still enjoy them.

animaniactoo

jym010 said:

I know we are talking Netflix series but has anyone been watching The Gifted or Inhumans?  I really like the gifted (X-men fan) but I think the inhumans is just too cheesy.  My only issue with the gifted is changing some of the names from the comic books.  Excited for punisher though.

I've been watching Inhumans. It's improved somewhat since the beginning but at this point I'm really just a glutton for punishment and as long as it's not downright horrible I want to know what happens next.

The problem appears to be the director more than anything else. The way scenes are shot and focused feels more like modern day 60's sci-fi than it feel like a relevant tale.

Way too focused on drawing out the "reaction shot" and "showing off the special abilities" rather than just shooting the natural results of the special abilities. e.g. In the first episode, the Inhuman who was a projector: Instead of showing that he was projecting and then focusing on what the projection was showing (which, yes, we'd already seen but wouldn't have hurt to re-see from a different angle) and the brief reactions of those around the table - flashing back and forth to the projector and the light angles playing over people's faces and floating through the air, and the (what seemed like) 5 second shot of Black Bolt taking it in. Really in love with that "staring off into air while mindblown/concerned" shot too.

Dragon_Nexus

For two, he was interested in her first off because she was a do gooder super hero with immense strength. She was useful to him for that, if nothing else.

But thirdly, and most importantly, she was able to resist him. That made her *incredibly* compelling to him. Someone who could shrug off his suggestions? He'd never met anyone like that in his entire life. She'd be fascinating.

As a villain, I think he was pretty damn interesting. Very threatening, too. I think he'd honestly be one of the most dangerous villains in the MCU so far. Scarlet Witch got into the heads of the Avengers, sure, but that wore off. Imagine Kilgrave running into Thor and saying "Go into space and throw a satalite at Avengers HQ". Or maybe if he met Tony Stark and put that weapon making brain to use to overthrow a country just for Kilgrave to live in.

I hope the second series will be good. I won't say what I'd read in an article for fear of spoilers, but there's an element that gives me real pause. It's not something I'm relishing since it could be done just oh-so-poorly.

DAZ0273

Killgrave's powers: There is an Avengers graphic novel called Emperor Doom where Doom enslaves Purple Man/Killgrave and uses him to take over control of the world. Doom actually makes the world a better place and so the Avengers have the conundrum of whether stopping Doom is actually the right thing to do (which of course it is). Ultimately, using Killgrave's power is basically "cheating" and Doom is unsatisfied with ruling in such a manner and so he subconsciously allows his own defeat. So PM's power is definitely one that has high potential but it can also be resisted by some characters with very high willpower such as Doom, Kingpin and also characters like the Vision who don't need to breath had to be enslaved with a special device. It also needed Doom to basically "weaponise" it as it has limitations in terms of it being very localised.

As for JJ Killgrave - I don't think he cared about sex appeal or beauty. In his view - everybody is a pawn for him to use however he likes. There isn't any difference in him being able to enslave Miss World or plain Jane, he has the same level of contempt for all of his victims. And we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that they are victims, not consenting partners. In fact, Killgrave has long since lost the ability to even distinguish the difference - look how he reacts when it is suggested to him that his relationship with Jessica was not consensual. He is unable to accept it.

Killgrave pursues Jessica because she escapes him and from his point of view that shatters his ego and his perception that he has total control. As the series develops, he becomes more fixated in trying to prove that Jessica would want to be with him even without his powers. Anything else is unacceptable to his inflated self-worth.

Ducky

*Bring this thread back to topic of the OP or I'm gonna lock it*

EstherC

I enjoyed all but iron fist & inhumans. Daredevil & JJ are the best, perfect casting for hero & villain. LC was a bit 1-dimensional to me, and IF was just plain meh. Wimp/wuss came to mind. Inhumans is wasted. The guy playing B.B. has the easiest job - no speech to memorise , just make up some sign language and practice menacing glares.

DarthDeVo

DAZ0273 said:

Killgrave's powers: There is an Avengers graphic novel called Emperor Doom where Doom enslaves Purple Man/Killgrave and uses him to take over control of the world. Doom actually makes the world a better place and so the Avengers have the conundrum of whether stopping Doom is actually the right thing to do (which of course it is). Ultimately, using Killgrave's power is basically "cheating" and Doom is unsatisfied with ruling in such a manner and so he subconsciously allows his own defeat. So PM's power is definitely one that has high potential but it can also be resisted by some characters with very high willpower such as Doom, Kingpin and also characters like the Vision who don't need to breath had to be enslaved with a special device. It also needed Doom to basically "weaponise" it as it has limitations in terms of it being very localised.

As for JJ Killgrave - I don't think he cared about sex appeal or beauty. In his view - everybody is a pawn for him to use however he likes. There isn't any difference in him being able to enslave Miss World or plain Jane, he has the same level of contempt for all of his victims. And we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that they are victims, not consenting partners. In fact, Killgrave has long since lost the ability to even distinguish the difference - look how he reacts when it is suggested to him that his relationship with Jessica was not consensual. He is unable to accept it.

Killgrave pursues Jessica because she escapes him and from his point of view that shatters his ego and his perception that he has total control. As the series develops, he becomes more fixated in trying to prove that Jessica would want to be with him even without his powers. Anything else is unacceptable to his inflated self-worth.

I'm no psychiatrist or psychologist, but Kilgrave struck me as a textbook sociopath, with narcissism on top. Maybe some psychopathy too.

He had absolutely no empathy for his victims and used them to further his ends, then just casually discarded them when he was finished with them. Look how causally he tells Nuke to jump off the building while watching a soccer game.

He also seemed to be completely amoral, lacking any or all recognition of right or wrong. Personally, I thought that made him a terrifying and fascinating villain, because he seemed to have no code of any kind. Just did whatever he pleased. 

Straycat

Who plans on watching it all over the weekend? I don't like to binge a whole show that fast, but I'll definitely watch the first ep or two

optimus2861

DarthDeVo said:

He also seemed to be completely amoral, lacking any or all recognition of right or wrong. Personally, I thought that made him a terrifying and fascinating villain, because he seemed to have no code of any kind. Just did whatever he pleased. 

Which if you think about what happened to him as a child, makes perfect sense. His parents experimented on him for the sake of saving his life, but ended up creating a monster; a child who from that point forward never had to take "no" for an answer or suffer any consequence for his actions. He could tell anyone he wanted to do anything he wanted them to do, and they did it.

It took me a while to get into JJ, but once I did, I really appreciated it. You have to let go of the idea that it's anything like a typical superhero story. At its core it's a story about an abuser and his victim. Each just happens to have a superpower.

Vhailorx

optimus2861 said:

DarthDeVo said:

He also seemed to be completely amoral, lacking any or all recognition of right or wrong. Personally, I thought that made him a terrifying and fascinating villain, because he seemed to have no code of any kind. Just did whatever he pleased. 

Which if you think about what happened to him as a child, makes perfect sense. His parents experimented on him for the sake of saving his life, but ended up creating a monster; a child who from that point forward never had to take "no" for an answer or suffer any consequence for his actions. He could tell anyone he wanted to do anything he wanted them to do, and they did it.

It took me a while to get into JJ, but once I did, I really appreciated it. You have to let go of the idea that it's anything like a typical superhero story. At its core it's a story about an abuser and his victim. Each just happens to have a superpower.

I would say it's a story about a victim and her abuser. Not the other way 'round.  

optimus2861

True... I hadn't intended to state those words in any particular order but your ordering is more meaningful.

adrainsmith

The Punisher doesn't always hit the perfect note but you have to give it chops for trying to do something a little different, and eschewing genre conventions. It's just too bloody long.

DAZ0273

I'm up to Episode 10 I think and whilst it is decent enough, it feels too stretched out like the other Marvel shows. I also, for some reason, can't really warm to Microchip.

therightwaye

I've been fighting with Marvel on twitter (one-sided) about The Punisher. I'm not the kind of person who is outspoken or even spoken about violence on TV. I think the best way to approach that is with discussion (in regards to young ones). And I don't have any sensitivities to violence myself (other than the occasional "OH ****" or cringe).

But I HATE that the Punisher can have 3 scenes with a guy being hit in the head with a sledgehammer (IN THE TRAILER) but the entire show goes out of its way to hide a nipple. Are you kidding me? You can show Frank Castle bleeding from every appendix but you're going to be extra careful to hide a nipple in an otherwise fairly steamy sex scene. That's inane. /rant

Punisher5784

therightwaye said:

I've been fighting with Marvel on twitter (one-sided) about The Punisher. I'm not the kind of person who is outspoken or even spoken about violence on TV. I think the best way to approach that is with discussion (in regards to young ones). And I don't have any sensitivities to violence myself (other than the occasional "OH tinykitty" or cringe).

But I HATE that the Punisher can have 3 scenes with a guy being hit in the head with a sledgehammer (IN THE TRAILER) but the entire show goes out of its way to hide a nipple. Are you kidding me? You can show Frank Castle bleeding from every appendix but you're going to be extra careful to hide a nipple in an otherwise fairly steamy sex scene. That's inane. /rant

Why is not seeing a nipple a big deal to you? If you want to see full on nudity, then go watch porn

therightwaye

Punisher5784 said:

therightwaye said:

I've been fighting with Marvel on twitter (one-sided) about The Punisher. I'm not the kind of person who is outspoken or even spoken about violence on TV. I think the best way to approach that is with discussion (in regards to young ones). And I don't have any sensitivities to violence myself (other than the occasional "OH tinykitty" or cringe).

But I HATE that the Punisher can have 3 scenes with a guy being hit in the head with a sledgehammer (IN THE TRAILER) but the entire show goes out of its way to hide a nipple. Are you kidding me? You can show Frank Castle bleeding from every appendix but you're going to be extra careful to hide a nipple in an otherwise fairly steamy sex scene. That's inane. /rant

Why is not seeing a nipple a big deal to you? If you want to see full on nudity, then go watch porn

Because of what it represents. The argument is largely explored over many texts that I don't need to get into it deeply on this forum. But simply, to suggest that the unnecessary violence is less sensitive to the audience than nudity is arguable some f'ed up prioritization.

I would imagine that would be easy to surmise, since as a modern adult male we are well aware of where to find nudity. 

Dogface

This is not uncommon for American television, right? Violence is good, nudity is bad. As an European i have wondered about this double standard for quite some time. However, since Punisher is on Netflix, i expected the cable television treatment (like HBO).
Perhaps the non-nudity clause comes from Marvel or Disney.

Dragon_Nexus

DAZ0273 said:

I'm up to Episode 10 I think and whilst it is decent enough, it feels too stretched out like the other Marvel shows. I also, for some reason, can't really warm to Microchip.

My issue is more that after episode, what...2? He does no punishing. Like...at all.

DAZ0273

Dragon_Nexus said:

DAZ0273 said:

I'm up to Episode 10 I think and whilst it is decent enough, it feels too stretched out like the other Marvel shows. I also, for some reason, can't really warm to Microchip.

My issue is more that after episode, what...2? He does no punishing. Like...at all.

Yeah, there is a strange lack of that, especially on the back of the carnage of DD Season 2.