Bold Claim about Punisher Netflix

therightwaye
therightwaye Posts: 459 Mover and Shaker
in MPQ General Discussion
https://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillbarr/2017/11/13/the-punisher-review/#44e104657e07

I'm fairly excited though. 

Wonder if they'll re-run the Punisher PvP. 
«1

Comments

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,825 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    Considering that they ran Punisher PVP to try to tie in to the planned stealth release of Punisher, which was delayed due to horrific events in RL, I doubt that they will run Punisher PVP again so soon.

    *haha!  I am a maroon.  First pvp of season is Punisher.  Edit again. It is the 3* Punisher PVP
  • STOPTHIS
    STOPTHIS Posts: 781 Critical Contributor
    Not that bold. Most of the MCU tv shows are pretty bad. Punisher is a simpler character to film and write for. Looking forward to it. Bernthal is great though.
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    *Fanboy mode engaged*

    I can't see another live action Punisher after Thomas Jane. He was the one and only.

    *Fanboy mode disengaged*
  • therightwaye
    therightwaye Posts: 459 Mover and Shaker
    STOPTHIS said:
    Not that bold. Most of the MCU tv shows are pretty bad. Punisher is a simpler character to film and write for. Looking forward to it. Bernthal is great though.
    Jessica Jones was nearly perfect TV. And Bernthal is one of the reasons Daredevil season 2 was great. Daredevil season 1 was also phenomenal.  I mean those 3 alone are extremely hard to outshine. 

    Luke Cage and Iron Fist I could debate for days about the merits. But getting over their faults won't be too difficult for Punisher. 
  • Omega Red
    Omega Red Posts: 366 Mover and Shaker
    The first half of season for both Jessica Jones and Luke Cage were the best marvel Netflix to date but for some reason the second half went off the rails in both cases. 
  • STOPTHIS
    STOPTHIS Posts: 781 Critical Contributor
    therightwaye said:
    STOPTHIS said:
    Not that bold. Most of the MCU tv shows are pretty bad. Punisher is a simpler character to film and write for. Looking forward to it. Bernthal is great though.
    Jessica Jones was nearly perfect TV. And Bernthal is one of the reasons Daredevil season 2 was great. Daredevil season 1 was also phenomenal.  I mean those 3 alone are extremely hard to outshine. 

    Luke Cage and Iron Fist I could debate for days about the merits. But getting over their faults won't be too difficult for Punisher. 
    1. JJ was 3-4 great episodes stretched over 13 with a repetitive structure and some of dumbest, most pointless subplots in any of these shows.
    2. DD S1 was uneven, but decent.
    3. Daredevil S2's little Punisher arc (first 4 episodes or so) was probably the best these series have been, but the season went downhill quick after that and kept getting worse.
    4. Luke Cage had a good start, but went downhill after a certain character was no longer on the show.
    5. Iron Fist was aggressively mediocre and boring from start to finish.
    6. Defenders was boring, couldn't keep the lore straight, and wasted the always great Weaver.
    Most of the shows had some highlights, some even had fantastic moments, but they are usually bogged down by the length of the series and budget. I also get the feeling some of the showrunners are afraid to embrace that these are comicbook characters. Looking at you, Iron Fist!
  • DrDevilDinosaur
    DrDevilDinosaur Posts: 436 Mover and Shaker
    STOPTHIS said:

    Daredevil S2's little Punisher arc (first 4 episodes or so) was probably the best these series have been, but the season went downhill quick after that and kept getting worse.

    I really loved the way Punisher was done in DD Season 2. Contrary to what was said earlier, I think Punisher is actually a much more difficult character to write than any of the heroes. It's very easy for him to become this personification of glorified violence without any real purpose. I was very sceptical about a Punisher stand-alone series, even after his appearance in Daredevil. The recent trailers have really brought me around. I guess I'm now cautiously optimistic.
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    I am torn. On the one hand, it's dang fun to use Retribution on an opposing Thanos and just wipe out 30K hit Points. On the other hand, it's no fun when Retribution downs my own Thanos...
  • 8punch
    8punch Posts: 97 Match Maker
    what a great weekend! first going to watch justice league with mates. then get together and watch the punisher tv series.

    i dont get why people dont like the netflix series of marvel. sure jessica jones was bad and iron fist was not good either. but daredevil season 1 and 2 were great and luke cage was okey, but the punisher in dardevil was incredible.

    that is how the punisher should be! no mercy! balls out hardcore. the trailers were also perfectly done with the metallica music. same for the stranger season 2 trailer music. whoever is in charge of that, should get an award or raise!

    now hurry up friday!!!!
     

  • scottee
    scottee Posts: 1,610 Chairperson of the Boards
    I loved the Punisher arc in DD2 as well. The tension and storytelling reminded me of the better parts of Agents of Shield. I also loved the Ghost Rider arc in AOS.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,967 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phenomenal: DD2 > DD1 > JJ

    Good: Defenders

    Okay: Cage

    Bad: IF
  • Keirain1982
    Keirain1982 Posts: 48 Just Dropped In
    I have a distaste towards a lot of Marvel television and films. Don't get me wrong, I love all things Marvel and have seen all the films.
    But what happened to good old fashioned origin films/series that stay true to the comic storylines? Wolverine Origins had the potential to be really good but Deadpool ruined it. Logan could've been amazing if they'd kept the comic storyline.
    I'd love it if Marvel released (for example) Iron Fist's or Luke Cage's origin story in a shorter-length introductory series.
    There's loads of younger fans who don't know what they've missed. Some of the storylines from the comics have been forgotten in favour of reinventing the wheel.
    Not on topic, but I'm watching The Gifted at the moment and I'm also really disappointed at hoe lacklustre the powers of the characters are. In that respect (unfortunately not Marvel related), Heroes was so much better!
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,286 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst said:
    8punch said:
    i dont get why people dont like the netflix series of marvel. 

    Because they are stretched to fill a contracted number of episodes, rather than letting the material dictate the run time.

    I have yet to see a Marvel Netflix series that wouldn't have been improved by editing it down to feature length and releasing it as a movie on Netflix. They all have standard, simplistic movie plots.

    But a series generates 13x (or however many episodes they force it to) as many "views". So they get a light touch in the editing room, and much fat remains, and the bloated "finished" products plod on for hours and hours.

    I made a jokey reference to Muppets take Manhattan. That old film has a ~75min runtime. And twice as much happens in MtM than happens in any of these Marvel "series"!

    Probably cause Muppets don't spend so much time brooding :D
    Agree with most of this.

    DD Season 1 maybe borderline was worth 7-8 or so episodes and still allow a large amount of brooding but Jessica Jones, as good as the acting was, stretched things out horribly.

    They clearly recognised this with DD Season 2 by trying to do two storylines but unfortunately they got Elektra completely wrong.
  • jym010
    jym010 Posts: 108 Tile Toppler
    I know we are talking Netflix series but has anyone been watching The Gifted or Inhumans?  I really like the gifted (X-men fan) but I think the inhumans is just too cheesy.  My only issue with the gifted is changing some of the names from the comic books.  Excited for punisher though.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,286 Chairperson of the Boards
    I have been watching the Gifted and so far it has been pretty good (maybe because all of the underground/resistance stuff reminds me of the TV series V which is a guilty pleasure) although mayve my only gripe is that I haven't warmed to Lorna yet but then we haven't really got to see her outside of specific circumstances too much so far. Not caught up with latest episode yet though.

    Inhumans haven't watched yet but will do so as my 7 year old son wants to "see the big silly dog", may have to pre-watch that to see if it is appropriate.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    STOPTHIS said:
    I also get the feeling some of the showrunners are afraid to embrace that these are comicbook characters. Looking at you, Iron Fist!

    Entirely possible, but I think they also painted themselves into a corner by establishing from DDS1 that this was a darker, more serious universe than the movies. Grounded in more reality and typical grass roots crime like the mafia and gangs and that kind of thing.

    Don't know why they went so hard on that when the plan from the beginning was to include Iron Fist and throughout I was thinking "If this place is realistic, how are they going to explain Danny Rand gaining mystical powers by punching a dragon to death?"

    Answer: They didn't. They spent most of the run having him babbling about stuff that's unbelievable and the antagonists not believing him. And we're meant to root for the guy who, were we not already aware, would come across as a crazy person who was completely justified in being sectioned?
  • Richyyy
    Richyyy Posts: 305 Mover and Shaker
    Interesting to see the range of opinions here on the different series. I really liked Jessica Jones (albeit yes, too much filler); I watched both seasons of Daredevil (which is some kind of praise on its own, given all the TV options these days); and made it no more than a couple of episodes into Luke Cage, Iron Fist or The Defenders before giving up out of sheer tedium and disinterest. Even in the bits of The Defenders that I watched, I spent large chunks just waiting for the sections with characters I gave a **** about to come back around.

    Personally I'm looking forward to season two of Jessica Jones, but wouldn't really care if the others all disappeared into the ether.
  • Avalanche Kincaid
    Avalanche Kincaid Posts: 83 Match Maker
    I liked DD and JJ series.  Agree that LC fell off a cliff after that one guy left.  Fist was ok, but danny was an absolute moron.  Defenders was good but not great  Excited about punisher, woot woot.

    For some reason I can't get into the ABC marvel shows.  I watch the first episode and then I forget about them.  Is Inhumans any good?  First episode seemed really awkward and I stopped watching it.  If you guys get a chance, check out AMC's Preacher.  It's based on a DC vertigo comic and is pretty great.  Really hoping they renew that show for season 3
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    therightwaye said:
    STOPTHIS said:
    Not that bold. Most of the MCU tv shows are pretty bad. Punisher is a simpler character to film and write for. Looking forward to it. Bernthal is great though.
    Jessica Jones was nearly perfect TV. And Bernthal is one of the reasons Daredevil season 2 was great. Daredevil season 1 was also phenomenal.  I mean those 3 alone are extremely hard to outshine. 

    Luke Cage and Iron Fist I could debate for days about the merits. But getting over their faults won't be too difficult for Punisher. 
    Imo (spoilers)

    Dardevil season 1 was surprisngly good.  Better than it really had any right to be.  Kind of like the show runner's previous show: spartacus.  Season 2 was meh at best.  Change of showrunner really hurt, poor portrayal of the hand was even worse.  The mcu hand peaked with nobu in s01e09 of daredevil and just seem dumber with every subsequent appearance.

    Jessica jones had such a great setup, a terrifying villain, and good performance.  But they did not have any content or anything new to say after about episode 4 or 5.  Whole middle of the season was just a series of lazy contrivances to extend the conflict.  

    Luke cage was heartbreaking.  Mahershala ali (cottonmouth) was awesome.  Diamondback was catastrophically bad.  Starting the season with the former, and then transitioning to the latter was a disaster. 

    Iron fist was maybe 25% decent, but had way more problems, and felt much more forced than any of the other series.  Are we even supposed to like danny?  Seems like the writers, at least, should know the answer. . .

    Defenders had some fun moments. But mostly just didn't make a lot of sense.

    And aesth: while all the shows had less plot than contracted episodes, cutting down to two hours would also be bad.  The strength of mamy of the shows is character work, and that generally needs a bit more time than a feature film can provide.
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    Vhailorx said:
    The mcu hand peaked with nobu in s01e09 of daredevil and just seem dumber with every subsequent appearance.
    Absolutely. They seemed like a cool mysterious entity, then turned into some ridiculous ancient mystical group that caused Pompeii and Chernobyl. No thanks. Thats the problem I had with Defenders, it was hand crazy so it felt more like DD 2.5 or IF 1.5 and not a real crossover.

    Jessica jones had such a great setup, a terrifying villain, and good performance.  But they did not have any content or anything new to say after about episode 4 or 5.  Whole middle of the season was just a series of lazy contrivances to extend the conflict.  

    Luke cage was heartbreaking.  Mahershala ali (cottonmouth) was awesome.  Diamondback was catastrophically bad.  Starting the season with the former, and then transitioning to the latter was a disaster.

    I didn't think there was any contrivance too egregious from JJ. The way Kilgrave escaped was bad, but I thought the material was still good enough around it to go with it. The problem I had was how are we supposed to like Hogarth afterwards? Luke Cage had much more contrivances, like when he was trapped at the club with Misty, why didn't he just fight his way out at first when he just does it later. And Diamond back shoots him into a garbage truck but later is "like find me Luke Cage!"

    I think a lot of it comes down to the same issues the movies tend to have. DD1, JJ1, and parts of DD2 had compelling villains, while most of Cage, IF, and Defenders didn't.

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