Peggy or agent venom

oBrokeno

i have both at 13 covers but a extra cover for venom and not Peggy. Peggy is so much better then venom is it worth champing her first even though I have an extra cover for venom?

Bowgentle

No.

Always go with the covers.

Champ Venom first, then Peggy after.
Agent Venom is very, very, very good.

Your 13 cover Peggy isn't going anywhere.

MarkersMake

I disagree. AV is very good when boosted, but just mediocre otherwise. Peggy is (in many cases) an "I win" button, even unboosted - particularly paired with IM40.

If you have enough ISO on hand (or make enough daily) that you will still be able to champ both if you pull a 14th Peggy today, then go ahead and champ AV.

Also, the benefit of respecing Peggy is important too. I run her 5/3/5, and the difference between 4 blue and 5 blue is huge.

YMMV, of course. 

oBrokeno

Thanks. 

Magic

Peggy used to be a unicorn but no longer there. He is a liability on defence against championed 5*. And she no longer rules the 4* world as well. Venom is great when boosted and pretty mediocre when not and this is true for most 4* (including Peggy). So yeah - go with the covers and champ Venom. Champed Peggy is not going to change your world on her own. 

Dormammu

Magic said:

Peggy used to be a unicorn but no longer there. He is a liability on defence against championed 5*. And she no longer rules the 4* world as well. Venom is great when boosted and pretty mediocre when not and this is true for most 4* (including Peggy). So yeah - go with the covers and champ Venom. Champed Peggy is not going to change your world on her own. 

I couldn't disagree more. Peggy is a game-changing 4-star. Unboosted she's highly effective at dismantling entire teams of opponents. Boosted... she's an absolute terror. Maybe she's not the darling of PvP that she once was but that's only because the fickle player base has moved on to more recent shinys - not because she's any less effective. When I champed her I felt as though my roster made a leap forward with her presence alone. I have yet to find a more reliable team at ensuring a victory than Peggy + IM40. If she gets her blue off and you can take out the third un-stunned opponent, the match is over.

Agent Venom not only isn't in her league, he isn't even playing the same sport.

Bowgentle

Dormammu said:

Magic said:

Peggy used to be a unicorn but no longer there. He is a liability on defence against championed 5*. And she no longer rules the 4* world as well. Venom is great when boosted and pretty mediocre when not and this is true for most 4* (including Peggy). So yeah - go with the covers and champ Venom. Champed Peggy is not going to change your world on her own. 

I couldn't disagree more. Peggy is a game-changing 4-star. Unboosted she's highly effective at dismantling entire teams of opponents. Boosted... she's an absolute terror. Maybe she's not the darling of PvP that she once was but that's only because the fickle player base has moved on to more recent shinys - not because she's any less effective. When I champed her I felt as though my roster made a leap forward with her presence alone. I have yet to find a more reliable team at ensuring a victory than Peggy + IM40. If she gets her blue off and you can take out the third un-stunned opponent, the match is over.

Agent Venom not only isn't in her league, he isn't even playing the same sport.

Use both boosted with a base level of 340+.
You'll change your mind.

It depends on where you are in the game.
As a beginning 4* player, matched against other 4* teams?
Yeah, Peggy is possibly better.
At high champ levels, matched against dual champed 5s? I'll use Venom.
He's much faster on his black.

Dormammu

I don't battle teams of dual-champed 5s and it's going to be a while before I do, so I don't know. What I do know, is that right now, Peggy is going to get me there easier than Agent Venom can.

Jaedenkaal

Bowgentle said:

Use both boosted with a base level of 340+.
You'll change your mind.

How is that helpful in a thread about who to champ first? They're clearly 70 covers away from 340.

Bowgentle

Jaedenkaal said:

Bowgentle said:

Use both boosted with a base level of 340+.
You'll change your mind.

How is that helpful in a thread about who to champ first? They're clearly 70 covers away from 340.

It gives perspective on who to concentrate on long term?

aa25

Jaedenkaal said:

Bowgentle said:

Use both boosted with a base level of 340+.
You'll change your mind.

How is that helpful in a thread about who to champ first? They're clearly 70 covers away from 340.

I think the point is the answer to the question like "who to champ next ?" depends on where you are. There is no straightforward answer that govern all.

I also agree with Bowgentle that Agent Venom is not that bad. I wouldn't call him out as not being in the same league as Peggy. Agent Venom serves different purpose from Peggy in the team and in your roster.

Jaedenkaal

Bowgentle said:

Jaedenkaal said:

Bowgentle said:

Use both boosted with a base level of 340+.
You'll change your mind.

How is that helpful in a thread about who to champ first? They're clearly 70 covers away from 340.

It gives perspective on who to concentrate on long term?

Yeah but by the time you're comparing them at 340, it won't matter who you rostered first. 

Dormammu

@Bowgentle
I find it interesting that champ levels improve Agent Venom so much so that he surpasses Peggy on the tier of 4-stars. I'm not disputing you, my highest 4-star is only 286 so I have no idea, but I was hoping you could be more specific on how he transforms into such a beast?

I don't think AV is bad, I've always just relegated him to the category of 'use when boosted'.

Jaedenkaal

Dormammu said:

@Bowgentle
I find it interesting that champ levels improve Agent Venom so much so that he surpasses Peggy on the tier of 4-stars. I'm not disputing you, my highest 4-star is only 286 so I have no idea, but I was hoping you could be more specific on how he transforms into such a beast?

I don't think AV is bad, I've always just relegated him to the category of 'use when boosted'.

Strictly speaking, they both improve at exactly the same rate. I'm pretty sure -every- champed 4* is good at 340, boosted to (whatever).

Symbiotic Assault always does either 67% or 107% the damage of Ultimate Soldier (both at 5 covers for that comparison), for example, if they've both at the same level.

Bowgentle

Dormammu said:

@Bowgentle
I find it interesting that champ levels improve Agent Venom so much so that he surpasses Peggy on the tier of 4-stars. I'm not disputing you, my highest 4-star is only 286 so I have no idea, but I was hoping you could be more specific on how he transforms into such a beast?

I don't think AV is bad, I've always just relegated him to the category of 'use when boosted'.

He's much faster.
5 black AP for a ton of damage.
And his red does more damage than Peggy's at comparable levels.

aa25

Jaedenkaal said:

Dormammu said:

@Bowgentle
I find it interesting that champ levels improve Agent Venom so much so that he surpasses Peggy on the tier of 4-stars. I'm not disputing you, my highest 4-star is only 286 so I have no idea, but I was hoping you could be more specific on how he transforms into such a beast?

I don't think AV is bad, I've always just relegated him to the category of 'use when boosted'.

Strictly speaking, they both improve at exactly the same rate. I'm pretty sure -every- champed 4* is good at 340, boosted to (whatever).

Symbiotic Assault always does either 67% or 107% the damage of Ultimate Soldier (both at 5 covers for that comparison), for example, if they've both at the same level.

Exactly this. I don't think there is such a thing "use when boosted", especially in 4* land. At base level of 270, boosted 4* dealt damage, self-damage, damage threshold, etc. are all doubled-ish which is the same with any 4*.

Once you firmly sit in 4* land, any unboosted 4* is more or less an afternoon snack for a boosted 4* (assume at the same base level.)

However, there are some 4* that can be useful even unboosted due to their passive, given that you can hide it behind other 4* someway somehow.

Jaedenkaal

Bowgentle said:

Dormammu said:

@Bowgentle
I find it interesting that champ levels improve Agent Venom so much so that he surpasses Peggy on the tier of 4-stars. I'm not disputing you, my highest 4-star is only 286 so I have no idea, but I was hoping you could be more specific on how he transforms into such a beast?

I don't think AV is bad, I've always just relegated him to the category of 'use when boosted'.

He's much faster.
5 black AP for a ton of damage.
And his red does more damage than Peggy's at comparable levels.

Yes, by about 7%. 

I think probably what's really happening is that AV's damage (for Military Might specifically) is approaching excellent levels, while Peggy's damage is simply over-killing by even more than before.

Bowgentle

I give up.
Enjoy your Peggy.

Jaedenkaal

Bowgentle said:

I give up.
Enjoy your Peggy.

Your opinion isn't being ignored; I think it's fascinating that AV could become increasingly more useful, relative to other 4*s, as his champ level increases. Presumably this applies to other characters as well who have cheap, spammable abilities that do only average damage at 270 or even 370.

It's just that my AV is level 288. And he's my highest level character. So it's just not going to matter to me (and presumably the OP, and presumably the majority of players) at all for something like a year or more.

Dormammu

The advantage of Peggy isn't her red, it's her yellow and blue. When her yellow passive is slowing the other team that can really help. This is a big factor for me when playing in PvE especially, against things like level 300+ Juggernaut or Ares. But of more importance is her blue, which takes the opponent from slow to a dead stop. Stunning two opponents for 3 turns? Owch. This is huge, especially if you can down the third opponent immediately after firing her blue - which gives you board control to resolve her countdown tiles for the best unboosted damage in the tier.

Now, Bowgentle makes a great point that AV is cheaper on AP (and thus faster) and that's true, but for me IM40 is still a factor. I'm a 4-star player with a max-champed IM40 who is every bit as useful as my 4-stars. He can fill Peggy up by the 5th turn. That's pretty fast when the other team is slowed by Peggy's yellow.

I'm guessing IM40 isn't a factor for Bowgentle anymore and his point that 'it depends on where you are at with your roster' is a keen one.

oBrokeno

I have 9 4*s champed so far. Still way behind you all. But I have a better picture of it now. I been playing a little over a year and the 4* transition is so much harder then the 3*. Want to try and make fewer mistakes now. As they hurt more. 
Really apperciate you all commenting.
helps the learning curve having people farther along sharing their experience.