Win based PvP is dull and depressing

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  • Black Duke
    Black Duke Posts: 694 Critical Contributor
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    Starfury said:
    Disclaimer: This is not related to the issue of the missing CP in progression and only partly related to the issue of whether 40 wins is the right number

    One thing I didn't really anticipate before this season got started is how little motivation win based PvP offers to the player. Before, you checked your opponents and when you saw a relatively easy team offering 50+ points, you were happy. Or you found a rather difficult opponent worth 75 points and you knew "If I can beat that guy, I get a big reward".

    That's all gone now. All we've got left is the most boring reward imaginable: A counter going up by 1. 13 down, 27 to go.
    It's about as exciting as a tapping game - after you removed the upgrade system...

    Yeah, it sucked when you were at 880 points came out of the match offering 30 points and saw that you had two losses. But at least that was infuriating, not like this new system that's completely devoid of any emotion.
    Yeah, that was also my experience. I´ve beaten a guy for 75 points which brought me over 1.200 points and I thought for a brief moment "Yeah, I´ve gotten the 15 CP again!" (that´s still a big thing for me). Then I glanced at the win counter and sighed since I needed another nine wins to get the 4* cover. :/
  • Pants1000
    Pants1000 Posts: 484 Mover and Shaker
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    I'll admit the first event did seem more grindy, but there are still exciting teams to see.  When you break MMR and see the seal for 4 points, that used to be a waste, now it's a super fast win!
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'll start off by saying during the tests I was championing the win based system. Even made a topic hoping for it to be implimented soon since the points based system was so frustrating.

    Now, I still am in favour of the win based system, absolutely. But all of my issues that I hoped would be ironed out before the final release are unaddressed.

    As TC said, the psychological issue of spending 5 minutes on a fight to get...one point? That's a heavy detriment. I'd said I'd be happy if they kept the same reward but split them up so you got something for every win that might help.

    I also agreed with everyone that 40 was far too high a score to reach. In the first test I remember hitting 900 points at around the 30-35 win mark. That felt kind of alright really. Second test I got there a bit quicker, just below the 30 win mark.

    In Storm's PvP I realised I had 964 points at 24 wins.

    I still hold out hope they'll weak this system as time goes on because 40 wins feels like such a mountain to climb with too few rewards on the way. Plus it's actually harder. I got to 25 wins last night in 10th place. There's no-where else for me to go. So I left my progress unshielded so I could lose a bunch of points and have more people to fight.
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
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    I had 28 wins and about 20 points shy of 1400. 
  • Jwhitmire36
    Jwhitmire36 Posts: 52 Match Maker
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    This is what's depressing for me:

    Time season I hit 1000 points took 21 wins, under old system 4000 pts for 10-pack would be 84 wins.  Instead now I need 133 wins, one hell of an increase

  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
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    Dragon_Nexus said:
    I'll start off by saying during the tests I was championing the win based system. Even made a topic hoping for it to be implimented soon since the points based system was so frustrating.

    Now, I still am in favour of the win based system, absolutely. But all of my issues that I hoped would be ironed out before the final release are unaddressed.
    For me before it actually arrived, I thought the only part I didn't like would be needing 40 wins instead of 30.

    But what surprised me was how much less enjoyable even the first 10 fights felt.

    By the time I reached 28, I was done with the event in a way I'd never before felt.
  • Avalanche Kincaid
    Avalanche Kincaid Posts: 83 Match Maker
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    Holy Crud, this win based PvP is boring.  I'm at 35 wins with 1/2 day to go and every win I'm thinking, is it really worth it to keep going?  Before you could just set a point goal in PvP and stop, but now you need to play all day long to get the 4* cover.  The increase in time for less rewards is astronomical.  The burnout is going to be crazy next season.  Cut the number of wins required in half I would be ok with this system since I don't want to be sitting here every day hitting 20+ pvp matches.  I know those with really low rosters and stop around 20 wins are happy and those that shield hop 5+ times and front run are happy, but those in the middle (i.e. the majority) will not be able to sustain the amount of play required for this system.  I'm going to slog it out until december.  Maybe it will be less mind numbingly dull, but if not my 3rd year will be my last. 
  • granne
    granne Posts: 852 Critical Contributor
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    I told myself I'd give it a season, to see if it was really as bad as I expected. So far it's worse. I may not manage a season. Having the first event be a new release didn't help, but the thought of another 9 events plus Sim makes me feel kind of ill.
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2017
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    Win based PvP is fine and i like it... BUT the amount of wins needed is waay to big.
    16 for 10CP is comparable  not even comparable to what i used to be (just reached 593 points with 10 wins and 1 loss), not mentioning 40 wins for 4* cover? 
    PvP are every 3 days so what am i actually do? Do DEVs realise we have school/work/family? 
    Not mentioning how fast heals are disappearing...
    I am afraid i am done with PvP for good - this is the last nail in the coffin after i promoted OML and very strong opponents started appearing...
  • Highdark
    Highdark Posts: 75 Match Maker
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    My ONLY complaint is that the one point uptick is a bit dull. A win streak feature or more points for higher difficulty teams would be appreciated. Currently no motivation to test your might vs the stronger comps.
  • Moon Roach
    Moon Roach Posts: 2,863 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Highdark said:
    My ONLY complaint is that the one point uptick is a bit dull. A win streak feature or more points for higher difficulty teams would be appreciated. Currently no motivation to test your might vs the stronger comps.
    Ooh, I like that, especially if it takes into account the strength of the team you use.  Maybe 75 points for a 5* team beaten by 3*, dropping to 0 for seed teams beaten by max-champed Thanos / Panther.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Highdark said:
    My ONLY complaint is that the one point uptick is a bit dull. A win streak feature or more points for higher difficulty teams would be appreciated. Currently no motivation to test your might vs the stronger comps.
    I'd been trying to think of a way to increase points and I thought of "harder = more points" but couldn't think of how to impliment it. I also thought of "More points = more win value" but then cupcaking would become a thing again as people get loads of points and set themselves up with a weak team we can sponge 5 wins off in a single fight.

    Or even the idea of defensive wins adding to the win score. People would end up boosting each other by outside contact. "If you see me, lose in purpose so I can get easy wins by not playing".

    But the idea of a win streak is REALLY good. Beat someone...1 win. Beat the next person...worth 2 wins. Next guy is worth 3, maybe. Or it could go up in stages. Every fifth win makes your wins worth twice as much, that kinda thing.
  • Pants1000
    Pants1000 Posts: 484 Mover and Shaker
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    Highdark said:
    My ONLY complaint is that the one point uptick is a bit dull. A win streak feature or more points for higher difficulty teams would be appreciated. Currently no motivation to test your might vs the stronger comps.
    That could work.  I'd support making any win against 2 champed 5's worth 2 wins.  Then the top 5* players who only see other 5's would only need 20 wins.  
  • BearVenger
    BearVenger Posts: 453 Mover and Shaker
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    I have a roster that relies on champed 4*s. I uaually play level 7 PvP. I'll start off against 3*/4* teams, then work my way up to full 4* teams around the 600-800 point level. Once I beat my first seed in Cat5, I immediately faced nothing but boosted 4* teams.

    I slogged on and got to 1300 points in just under 30 wins. If this were the previous scoring method, I would have taken my winnings, shielded, and gone on to PvE (or real life). But in this current format, 28 wins means I still have 12 more soul-and health pack-draining matches to finish.

    At the 30-win mark, I hit a wall of double 5* champ teams. I had to skip about 20 times to cycle into a lower-scoring team that had only one 5* champ on it. And all the while I'm doing this, I'm leaving myself wide-open to shots. When I win, I'm opening myself to retals.

    I don't mind trading shots, but I hate spending time and losing points and ISO trying to find a remotely winnable match. In point-based PvP progression, I'd skip lower-ranked teams because it wasn't in my interest, and because I empathize with growing a roster. Now I don't blink if I come across a 1-point 3* team to pad my win count. I certaintly don't begrudge the PanThos teams that triple-shoot me to get their Mr. Fantastic cover.

    I peaked around 1500 and had 1378 (#14) at 33 wins, but I finished at 771 (#49), just from leaving myself open to take shots to get my 40th win.

    This new system is doing me no favors. Every format change, from 5 rounds for PvE progression, to 5* nodes, to 40-wins for a 4* cover just seem to make the game longer and grindier. I don't see how that can be in Demiurge's best interest.


  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
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    Pants1000 said:
    Highdark said:
    My ONLY complaint is that the one point uptick is a bit dull. A win streak feature or more points for higher difficulty teams would be appreciated. Currently no motivation to test your might vs the stronger comps.
    That could work.  I'd support making any win against 2 champed 5's worth 2 wins.  Then the top 5* players who only see other 5's would only need 20 wins.  
    I really like this idea

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