Win-Based Appreciation Society (WBAS).
Comments
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If there are no downsides from my PoV? Sure. If it were something that genuinely mattered, I'd care more about the impact on others. But for a substantial chunk of the player base, this is pure benefit.Vhailorx said:
But seriously? You want to appreciate something without regard to its downsides? That's not appreciation, it's obsession or idolatry.
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Yeah, no. You're leaving out several factors. When to shield, how much to climb at one time, how to space out your climbing runs. The possibility that you're looking at a trapcake. It's not nearly so simple as slope intercept.Ruinate said:
Y = MX+Banimaniactoo said:
No, it proves that if I needed to go to *such* elaborate methods to be reasonably successful, the setup was wrong. I was in it. I could play and win matches and I wasn't picking on the little guys to do it. If I couldn't expect reasonable reward for that without going to elaborate lengths, then the problem isn't me.Ruinate said:
Doesn't this demonstrate precisely that you don't know how the pvp system works?animaniactoo said:
I think that's a serious misunderstanding of the experience many people have.shartattack said:This sounds arrogant/mean, but: When i read the reasons why people like wins-based, and they describe their experiences, it is apparent that they don't understand how PVP works. It isn't really their fault, because the game doesn't say how to play pvp.
examples:
I hit 25 point targets all day and then i come back and i lost a million points.----anything below 38 points leaves a positive retaliation node. a 25 point target to you makes a big juicy target for the person you just beat.
I can't find any good targets, i get crushed---you advanced too quick/everyone in your score range is shielded/you leave your MMR and are exposed to higher level characters, leaving you the only juicy target--you will get crushed
people unwilling/misunterstanding how shields work. unless you are a top .001%er, you have to shield.I hit as high as I can, pretty much always. Oftentimes I won't win as much as it says my target is worth, because of some calculation behind the scenes that means that 42 target is now only worth 29 pts. In the meantime, in the time it took me to take down that target, I got hit for 47 points by somebody who had a quick stunner and not much else on their team or something along those lines and a defensive win of 5 pts.If everyone is shielded that's above 25 pts I didn't advance too quickly - but now I CAN'T advance without spending more iso than I'm winning in skipping targets until I find someone worth hitting.That's not due to any misunderstanding on my part, that's due to a fundamental flaw in the way PVP works (worked) period.
To put it in math terms: I'll accept needing to learn a fairly minor algebraic equation along the lines of a + b(^2)/4 in order to play well as a working system for the average user. I don't accept needing to learn and apply the quadratic equation as a well built system.
Where X is time spent on forums instead of hitting your queue. B is how weak their defensive team is. Y is how untrustworthy your queue will become.
Don't trust old queues. Not that elaborate.3 -
Also which slice to play in and how to time your starting as well as your later climbs.animaniactoo said:
Yeah, no. You're leaving out several factors. When to shield, how much to climb at one time, how to space out your climbing runs. The possibility that you're looking at a trapcake. It's not nearly so simple as slope intercept.Ruinate said:
Y = MX+Banimaniactoo said:
No, it proves that if I needed to go to *such* elaborate methods to be reasonably successful, the setup was wrong. I was in it. I could play and win matches and I wasn't picking on the little guys to do it. If I couldn't expect reasonable reward for that without going to elaborate lengths, then the problem isn't me.Ruinate said:
Doesn't this demonstrate precisely that you don't know how the pvp system works?animaniactoo said:
I think that's a serious misunderstanding of the experience many people have.shartattack said:This sounds arrogant/mean, but: When i read the reasons why people like wins-based, and they describe their experiences, it is apparent that they don't understand how PVP works. It isn't really their fault, because the game doesn't say how to play pvp.
examples:
I hit 25 point targets all day and then i come back and i lost a million points.----anything below 38 points leaves a positive retaliation node. a 25 point target to you makes a big juicy target for the person you just beat.
I can't find any good targets, i get crushed---you advanced too quick/everyone in your score range is shielded/you leave your MMR and are exposed to higher level characters, leaving you the only juicy target--you will get crushed
people unwilling/misunterstanding how shields work. unless you are a top .001%er, you have to shield.I hit as high as I can, pretty much always. Oftentimes I won't win as much as it says my target is worth, because of some calculation behind the scenes that means that 42 target is now only worth 29 pts. In the meantime, in the time it took me to take down that target, I got hit for 47 points by somebody who had a quick stunner and not much else on their team or something along those lines and a defensive win of 5 pts.If everyone is shielded that's above 25 pts I didn't advance too quickly - but now I CAN'T advance without spending more iso than I'm winning in skipping targets until I find someone worth hitting.That's not due to any misunderstanding on my part, that's due to a fundamental flaw in the way PVP works (worked) period.
To put it in math terms: I'll accept needing to learn a fairly minor algebraic equation along the lines of a + b(^2)/4 in order to play well as a working system for the average user. I don't accept needing to learn and apply the quadratic equation as a well built system.
Where X is time spent on forums instead of hitting your queue. B is how weak their defensive team is. Y is how untrustworthy your queue will become.
Don't trust old queues. Not that elaborate.
I'm also fairly certain that the match-making starts working differently once your roster is past a certain point. The patterns I see when I'm skipping through prospective matches bear no resemblance to what I see high-level players talking about. Either that, or they're dumping so much more into skip tax that I'm coming out way ahead on ISO from that alone.
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Now i see why its so popular. Many have no idea how to pvp, or only play to 10 cp anyway, or are too shortsighted to see beyond their current play level and what theyre heading for.
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Or people have different goals than you do for what they want to get out of the game.8
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Humans are ever ready to dance gleefully over the shorting of a minority, and they sell their humanity so very cheaply.
And the best way to screw someone ever is often to give them exactly what they ask for.
But sure, I can join in the mendacity as well! I'm much more likely to finish t10 than to play to 1200, so more of the CPs for me .... at least for now. Collusion will be doubled down upon, locking out 'rogues' like me. And top 10 scores will likely rise. I haven't been collecting that CP often anyway, so whatevs, eh? I can appreciate that while it lasts.
Playing more for the other progressions simply sucks. I don'tappreciate that. But hey, in the past, on the rare occasion when I was attacked on the way to 900, I had to pass that pain along by attacking someone else, maybe 2 times, maybe even 3 (one time it was like 20, but hey, let's neveryoumind that). Now, I'll hit 900 and have to keep dinging others 20-24 more times whether I'm attacked or not. Double-but, now I can tell myself they probably weren't playing for placement anyway and don't mind, whereas before they probably thought I was a jerk. I can appreciate that and I'm sure they will, too. Just to be safe I wont bother asking.
I won't have to explain PvP to people any more, cause few will bother moving on to the placement game. I can appreciate the former, and the latter, a slow decline of a vibrant community, is such a small price to pay.
I'l get even more of my free time back whether I like it or not as the community, already a pale shadow of its former self, continues to fade. Other parts of my life will appreciate that.
Many players will never know what they missed as MPQ forfeits the one quirky, odd, compelling aspect it had and becomes a less engaging, more solitary pastime for more and more players. Ignorance is bliss, and I'm sure you all would appreciate that, if you could ... but you can't ... because you don't know. Oh well!4 -
^^^^
Glad you’re digging the changes!
(Assuming that’s why you posted in the appreciation thread).
Anyway, I just had a blast climbing to 10 wins in Sim using Level 278 X-23, Level 40 Gambit, Level 40 Hood. Fought mostly low champ 3* teams. We’ll see if I get some low level retals!0 -
There's plenty that's compelling to other people. We wouldn't be here otherwise. And no, I would not be a fan if all it did was take things away from some group. But this gives so much more to a much larger group, so yeah, I'm in favour.aesthetocyst said:Many players will never know what they missed as MPQ forfeits the one quirky, odd, compelling aspect it had and becomes a less engaging, more solitary pastime for more and more players. Ignorance is bliss, and I'm sure you all would appreciate that, if you could ... but you can't ... because you don't know. Oh well!
Heck, I'm here for a solitary pastime. I've got stuff like 40K and D&D for when I want to do geeky things with other people. MPQ is something more engaging than Bejeweled for when I need something structured to chill out from my day.
And how many more players are there out there that also like this as a solitary game? You're not going to hear from them, because by definition they're not going to be in your LINE chats or anything, but they're certainly there, filling up the rest of all those brackets.
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Got my first retaliation and it was all 5*. I mean my 4s could take them (they were low level), but still... Mean!Daredevil217 said:^^^^
Glad you’re digging the changes!
(Assuming that’s why you posted in the appreciation thread).
Anyway, I just had a blast climbing to 10 wins in Sim using Level 278 X-23, Level 40 Gambit, Level 40 Hood. Fought mostly low champ 3* teams. We’ll see if I get some low level retals!
Switched to a team of:
3* Wolverine (Level 252)
2* Daken (Level 144)
3* Gambit (Level 40)
Wow are Patch and Gambit MADE FOR EACHOTHER!! This combo is faster than Patch Loki, does more damage and can punch WAY above its weight class. Collect 9 green and pretty much game over. Two purple casts overwrite all the enemy strikes and the red does huge damage boosted by the friendly strikes while collecting AP. And this is at level 40. I can’t imagine the damage Champed! Since I’m past the 3* tier I never would have found this without the recent changes to the game and my desire to try new teams. Thank you Wins-Base God. Already up to 12 wins in Sim just screwing around experimenting, lol.3 -
I'm in a strange place where I'm neither for or against. If they kept the old format, I played until 575 and stopped. This new format? Time will tell. I'll see how I feel. I'm open to changes, I just need to see how I feel about them.0
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Please show me how to use Patch/Daken/Gambit against the triple champed 5s I see in SSIM from the start and I'll join the praise.Daredevil217 said:
Got my first retaliation and it was all 5*. I mean my 4s could take them (they were low level), but still... Mean!Daredevil217 said:^^^^
Glad you’re digging the changes!
(Assuming that’s why you posted in the appreciation thread).
Anyway, I just had a blast climbing to 10 wins in Sim using Level 278 X-23, Level 40 Gambit, Level 40 Hood. Fought mostly low champ 3* teams. We’ll see if I get some low level retals!
Switched to a team of:
3* Wolverine (Level 252)
2* Daken (Level 144)
3* Gambit (Level 40)
Wow are Patch and Gambit MADE FOR EACHOTHER!! This combo is faster than Patch Loki, does more damage and can punch WAY above its weight class. Collect 9 green and pretty much game over. Two purple casts overwrite all the enemy strikes and the red does huge damage boosted by the friendly strikes while collecting AP. And this is at level 40. I can’t imagine the damage Champed! Since I’m past the 3* tier I never would have found this without the recent changes to the game and my desire to try new teams. Thank you Wins-Base God. Already up to 12 wins in Sim just screwing around experimenting, lol.
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I've made my personal stats.
Previously, I was stuck to around 500pts, can't go higher. Now, I can technically grab all progression rewards. However, the expected time required to make it will increase.
I will less play last minute to steal top rewards and start earlier event. But this possibility is still available.
10pack season is at 16win per sub.
Sound good to me. Reasonable. Only regret, this update can make me play more than I do now. :P
Last thing I fought: The lightening round seed technique, could we then also do it in pvp now? Would be great to tiny kitty start event with 10 easy wins.
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Coubii said:
Last thing I fought: The lightening round seed technique, could we then also do it in pvp now? Would be great to tiny kitty start event with 10 easy wins.
Join a slice in its first 3min. You should see seed teams. At least 3. If lucky, you'll get 10 of them.0 -
An alliance member got eight seed teams from Shield Sim. I started pretty quickly, maybe within five minutes of the season starting, but the seed teams were already gone. Oh well. There were a handful of Strang3 teams though so that's pretty close to a seed team these days.0
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It's all pretty much a consequence of the game trying to match you up with other players of similar roster strength.TPF Alexis said:I'm also fairly certain that the match-making starts working differently once your roster is past a certain point. The patterns I see when I'm skipping through prospective matches bear no resemblance to what I see high-level players talking about. Either that, or they're dumping so much more into skip tax that I'm coming out way ahead on ISO from that alone.
If you assume that the 5* players in a time slice gravitate towards the top of the leader board, then it follows that a new 5* player entering the tournament is likely to be matched with high-value targets until they too are close to the top. So they might end up hitting the score targets in half as many matches as lower level players.
That's going to make a huge difference to how reasonable they see the new system's win targets to be.
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I'm looking forward to appreciating win based PvP 20 wins a day, 474 wins a season.
Hop on the treadmill, little hamster.
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@mexus what else did you expect? You've been on these forums long enough. Anyway, props to you; just don't stoop down to others' level.0
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I dont often agree with aes.aesthetocyst said:Humans are ever ready to dance gleefully over the shorting of a minority, and they sell their humanity so very cheaply.
And the best way to screw someone ever is often to give them exactly what they ask for.
But sure, I can join in the mendacity as well! I'm much more likely to finish t10 than to play to 1200, so more of the CPs for me .... at least for now. Collusion will be doubled down upon, locking out 'rogues' like me. And top 10 scores will likely rise. I haven't been collecting that CP often anyway, so whatevs, eh? I can appreciate that while it lasts.
Playing more for the other progressions simply sucks. I don'tappreciate that. But hey, in the past, on the rare occasion when I was attacked on the way to 900, I had to pass that pain along by attacking someone else, maybe 2 times, maybe even 3 (one time it was like 20, but hey, let's neveryoumind that). Now, I'll hit 900 and have to keep dinging others 20-24 more times whether I'm attacked or not. Double-but, now I can tell myself they probably weren't playing for placement anyway and don't mind, whereas before they probably thought I was a jerk. I can appreciate that and I'm sure they will, too. Just to be safe I wont bother asking.
I won't have to explain PvP to people any more, cause few will bother moving on to the placement game. I can appreciate the former, and the latter, a slow decline of a vibrant community, is such a small price to pay.
I'l get even more of my free time back whether I like it or not as the community, already a pale shadow of its former self, continues to fade. Other parts of my life will appreciate that.
Many players will never know what they missed as MPQ forfeits the one quirky, odd, compelling aspect it had and becomes a less engaging, more solitary pastime for more and more players. Ignorance is bliss, and I'm sure you all would appreciate that, if you could ... but you can't ... because you don't know. Oh well!
However this, this is spot on.0 -
There once was a time when i was a 575 and out player.
I wanted to score higher. I learned how to play pvp.
I asked around and got into line rooms. I started hitting 900 and then 1200 and then 1600+.
I met all sorts of cool people that i would have never met any other way.
I helped others and got help in return.
The game got much more fun.
Whenever anyone tries to explain that to these wins-pvp people, "they plug their fingers in their ears and go nah nah nah I'm not listening."
Just because you just wanted a game to play during your daily dump doesn't mean you should ruin the fun for everyone else.7 -
None of those factors have anything to do with point values not matching what was displayed. My replies are to that only.animaniactoo said:Yeah, no. You're leaving out several factors. When to shield, how much to climb at one time, how to space out your climbing runs. The possibility that you're looking at a trapcake. It's not nearly so simple as slope intercept.
To sum it up it seems like you don't want strategy. I would agree with you and say there are some things most players wouldn't figure out themselves like mmr. Those things aren't going to make or break your ability to reach any progression reward though. But how to space out your climbing runs? Really? You don't need the game or a guide to tell you that but here's a hint. There's no magical number of minutes you must wait before resuming your climb.2
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