Win-Based Appreciation Society (WBAS).

MaxxPowerz

Why not do both? Those who cant acheive a high enough score could still shoot for progression awards should they choose to put in the effort, while those of us who have worked hard to build a roster to be able to compete wont be punished either.

I like both systems, but each have drawbacks.

animaniactoo

I'm in, in general. I had just gotten to the point where I could kind of play with the ebb and flow and if I had the right characters boosted, I could hit 900.

It was going to start being less work. Now it will be more work, but it will be *guaranteed* reward work, so I'm in.

Arix90

I love it now if there is a 4* cover i really need i know if i put the time i can get it

shartattack

This sounds arrogant/mean, but:      When i read the reasons why people like wins-based, and they describe their experiences, it is apparent that they don't understand how PVP works.  It isn't really their fault, because the game doesn't say how to play pvp.
examples:
I hit 25 point targets all day and then i come back and i lost a million points.----anything below 38 points leaves a positive retaliation node.  a 25 point target to you makes a big juicy target for the person you just beat.

I can't find any good targets, i get crushed---you advanced too quick/everyone in your score range is shielded/you leave your MMR and are exposed to higher level characters, leaving you the only juicy target--you will get crushed

people unwilling/misunterstanding how shields work.  unless you are a top .001%er, you have to shield.  

animaniactoo

shartattack said:

This sounds arrogant/mean, but:      When i read the reasons why people like wins-based, and they describe their experiences, it is apparent that they don't understand how PVP works.  It isn't really their fault, because the game doesn't say how to play pvp.
examples:
I hit 25 point targets all day and then i come back and i lost a million points.----anything below 38 points leaves a positive retaliation node.  a 25 point target to you makes a big juicy target for the person you just beat.

I can't find any good targets, i get crushed---you advanced too quick/everyone in your score range is shielded/you leave your MMR and are exposed to higher level characters, leaving you the only juicy target--you will get crushed

people unwilling/misunterstanding how shields work.  unless you are a top .001%er, you have to shield.  

I think that's a serious misunderstanding of the experience many people have.

I hit as high as I can, pretty much always. Oftentimes I won't win as much as it says my target is worth, because of some calculation behind the scenes that means that 42 target is now only worth 29 pts. In the meantime, in the time it took me to take down that target, I got hit for 47 points by somebody who had a quick stunner and not much else on their team or something along those lines and a defensive win of 5 pts.

If everyone is shielded that's above 25 pts I didn't advance too quickly - but now I CAN'T advance without spending more iso than I'm winning in skipping targets until I find someone worth hitting.

That's not due to any misunderstanding on my part, that's due to a fundamental flaw in the way PVP works (worked) period.

Dormammu

Is this one of those clubs that only accepts opinions that align with theirs? Because those are annoying.

Sim Mayor

Stax the Foyer said:

♬ You are the Wins-Based / Appreciation Society
Thor save Howard the Duck / and 4-star roster variety ♬

♬ Protecting the newbies / from being abused
Preserving the CPs / for me and for you ♬

♬ You are the Fancy Dan / Appreciation Consortium
Thor save progression covers / and all those who were awarded them ♬

Sir or Madame, you are my new hero.

I'm completely on board with WBAS. As somebody who can as of yesterday claim to own at least one of every 4* character, I love the fact that I can, at my leisure, work my way up to the 4* prize in PvP.

As for the 15CP prize...I'm gonna be honest, it's always been so far out of my reach that I actually *forgot* that there was a 15CP prize at 1200 points.

Make Mine WBAS!!

shartattack

animaniactoo said:

I think that's a serious misunderstanding of the experience many people have.

I hit as high as I can, pretty much always. Oftentimes I won't win as much as it says my target is worth, because of some calculation behind the scenes that means that 42 target is now only worth 29 pts. In the meantime, in the time it took me to take down that target, I got hit for 47 points by somebody who had a quick stunner and not much else on their team or something along those lines and a defensive win of 5 pts.

If everyone is shielded that's above 25 pts I didn't advance too quickly - but now I CAN'T advance without spending more iso than I'm winning in skipping targets until I find someone worth hitting.

That's not due to any misunderstanding on my part, that's due to a fundamental flaw in the way PVP works (worked) period.

If you see charlie's angels or unboosted 4s worth a ton, you have to know if they don't shield, its gonna be worth less.  If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

The skip tax is too high.  They need to broaden MMR/lower skip tax to make it easier to find targets.  That didn't require a full revamp.

If you skip around, and can't find targets, YOU are the target.  shield up and find some targets.

shardwick

I'm beyond ready for win based. I'll be able to save more hp and health packs plus in Shield Sim I can experiment more with teams instead of just running my main team to get as many points as possible. "Let's try C/D with Coulson and so and so" instead of constantly running Gamora/Grocket/Medusa. Maybe play with my 5* Hawkeye a bit more since I leveled him up a bit for the last boss event. Ooooh....5* Hawkeye, Gambit, Bl4de. That'll be fun.

Slothkins

I'm in! PvP has always been too much of a pain for me to commit any serious time to. As a result, the CP progression change means nothing to me. If I can go in and plug away at some events and get some of extra rewards I'll be happy now, instead of frustrated by the treadmill. I'll have to start remembering to go to the verses tab now though- ignoring it is going to be a hard habit to break.

TPF Alexis

I am 100% on board. I've made it to the 4* cover four times now, three during the WBP tests, and once with old progression. The first three combined produced far less stress than the one where I actually hit 900. And didn't cost me any HP in Shields, either.

Also, WBP lets PvP play actually feel playful. In the tests, I saw way more variety of teams, and actually had a lot of fun playing around with variety of my own taking them on, rather than just doing one quick burst of frantic grinding against nearly identical teams.

Ruinate

animaniactoo said:

shartattack said:

This sounds arrogant/mean, but:      When i read the reasons why people like wins-based, and they describe their experiences, it is apparent that they don't understand how PVP works.  It isn't really their fault, because the game doesn't say how to play pvp.
examples:
I hit 25 point targets all day and then i come back and i lost a million points.----anything below 38 points leaves a positive retaliation node.  a 25 point target to you makes a big juicy target for the person you just beat.

I can't find any good targets, i get crushed---you advanced too quick/everyone in your score range is shielded/you leave your MMR and are exposed to higher level characters, leaving you the only juicy target--you will get crushed

people unwilling/misunterstanding how shields work.  unless you are a top .001%er, you have to shield.  

I think that's a serious misunderstanding of the experience many people have.

I hit as high as I can, pretty much always. Oftentimes I won't win as much as it says my target is worth, because of some calculation behind the scenes that means that 42 target is now only worth 29 pts. In the meantime, in the time it took me to take down that target, I got hit for 47 points by somebody who had a quick stunner and not much else on their team or something along those lines and a defensive win of 5 pts.

If everyone is shielded that's above 25 pts I didn't advance too quickly - but now I CAN'T advance without spending more iso than I'm winning in skipping targets until I find someone worth hitting.

That's not due to any misunderstanding on my part, that's due to a fundamental flaw in the way PVP works (worked) period.

Doesn't this demonstrate precisely that you don't know how the pvp system works?

TPF Alexis

Ruinate said:

animaniactoo said:

shartattack said:

This sounds arrogant/mean, but:      When i read the reasons why people like wins-based, and they describe their experiences, it is apparent that they don't understand how PVP works.  It isn't really their fault, because the game doesn't say how to play pvp.
examples:
I hit 25 point targets all day and then i come back and i lost a million points.----anything below 38 points leaves a positive retaliation node.  a 25 point target to you makes a big juicy target for the person you just beat.

I can't find any good targets, i get crushed---you advanced too quick/everyone in your score range is shielded/you leave your MMR and are exposed to higher level characters, leaving you the only juicy target--you will get crushed

people unwilling/misunterstanding how shields work.  unless you are a top .001%er, you have to shield.  

I think that's a serious misunderstanding of the experience many people have.

I hit as high as I can, pretty much always. Oftentimes I won't win as much as it says my target is worth, because of some calculation behind the scenes that means that 42 target is now only worth 29 pts. In the meantime, in the time it took me to take down that target, I got hit for 47 points by somebody who had a quick stunner and not much else on their team or something along those lines and a defensive win of 5 pts.

If everyone is shielded that's above 25 pts I didn't advance too quickly - but now I CAN'T advance without spending more iso than I'm winning in skipping targets until I find someone worth hitting.

That's not due to any misunderstanding on my part, that's due to a fundamental flaw in the way PVP works (worked) period.

Doesn't this demonstrate precisely that you don't know how the pvp system works?

Which is likely precisely why they're switching to a system that is reasonably comprehensible purely through information available in-game.

Lucifier

for me it is definitely yes to the win base system. as before I snipe a bracket and most of the time I shield below 700 points.

that mean from progression, I am getting +iso + 3* cover + HP + event token + 4* cover.

most likely i will lose the T25 placement reward (which i get it for a successful snipe), but as overall now the reward is better and play-style is more relaxing.

Daredevil217

As someone who could reasonably reach 900 in fewer than 40 matches (never counted), I think going to 40 will actually add more to my iso reserves and 2* farm as more matches means more rewards.  Not that I couldn't overgrind under the old system, but didn't have much incentive to do so [plus as an aside, doing so meant leaving myself open to retals and less progression rewards].

shardwick

Daredevil217 said:

As someone who could reasonably reach 900 in fewer than 40 matches (never counted), I think going to 40 will actually add more to my iso reserves and 2* farm as more matches means more rewards.  Not that I couldn't overgrind under the old system, but didn't have much incentive to do so [plus as an aside, doing so meant leaving myself open to retals and less progression rewards].

Yeah, I can see myself playing a lot of Shield Sim. Go high, get knocked back down, go high again, get the 4* after so many wins, then keep playing to put wins towards season progression as well as earning more iso and 2s.

TheOncomingStorm

They nerfed old man Logan?

animaniactoo

Ruinate said:

animaniactoo said:

shartattack said:

This sounds arrogant/mean, but:      When i read the reasons why people like wins-based, and they describe their experiences, it is apparent that they don't understand how PVP works.  It isn't really their fault, because the game doesn't say how to play pvp.
examples:
I hit 25 point targets all day and then i come back and i lost a million points.----anything below 38 points leaves a positive retaliation node.  a 25 point target to you makes a big juicy target for the person you just beat.

I can't find any good targets, i get crushed---you advanced too quick/everyone in your score range is shielded/you leave your MMR and are exposed to higher level characters, leaving you the only juicy target--you will get crushed

people unwilling/misunterstanding how shields work.  unless you are a top .001%er, you have to shield.  

I think that's a serious misunderstanding of the experience many people have.

I hit as high as I can, pretty much always. Oftentimes I won't win as much as it says my target is worth, because of some calculation behind the scenes that means that 42 target is now only worth 29 pts. In the meantime, in the time it took me to take down that target, I got hit for 47 points by somebody who had a quick stunner and not much else on their team or something along those lines and a defensive win of 5 pts.

If everyone is shielded that's above 25 pts I didn't advance too quickly - but now I CAN'T advance without spending more iso than I'm winning in skipping targets until I find someone worth hitting.

That's not due to any misunderstanding on my part, that's due to a fundamental flaw in the way PVP works (worked) period.

Doesn't this demonstrate precisely that you don't know how the pvp system works?

No, it proves that if I needed to go to *such* elaborate methods to be reasonably successful, the setup was wrong. I was in it. I could play and win matches and I wasn't picking on the little guys to do it. If I couldn't expect reasonable reward for that without going to elaborate lengths, then the problem isn't me.

To put it in math terms: I'll accept needing to learn a fairly minor algebraic equation along the lines of a + b(^2)/4 in order to play well as a working system for the average user. I don't accept needing to learn and apply the quadratic equation as a well built system.

Vhailorx

mexus said:

Eec411 said:

Most people aren’t opposed to the change at its core.  The biggest issues are losing cp for progression only and the number of wins required to get the 4* cover.  I think if you brought the number of wins down to something more reasonable (30 maybe?) and put the cp back into progression rather than limiting to t10, you’d see a pretty overwhelming amount of praise, or indifference at worse.

These same suggestions were posed after the last test and it appears to have fallen onto deaf ears; hence more outrage.

WBAS sees to appreciate this new implementation no matter what drawbacks it might have in terms of rewards and such. So back to topic.

I am most certainly not a WBAS member (I absolutely agree with EEC.  The principle is fine, but implementation is a disaster and has been since the first test, since which time there have been no significant changes), so take my opinion fwiw. 

But seriously?  You want to appreciate something without regard to its downsides?  That's not appreciation, it's obsession or idolatry. 

Ruinate

animaniactoo said:

Ruinate said:

animaniactoo said:

shartattack said:

This sounds arrogant/mean, but:      When i read the reasons why people like wins-based, and they describe their experiences, it is apparent that they don't understand how PVP works.  It isn't really their fault, because the game doesn't say how to play pvp.
examples:
I hit 25 point targets all day and then i come back and i lost a million points.----anything below 38 points leaves a positive retaliation node.  a 25 point target to you makes a big juicy target for the person you just beat.

I can't find any good targets, i get crushed---you advanced too quick/everyone in your score range is shielded/you leave your MMR and are exposed to higher level characters, leaving you the only juicy target--you will get crushed

people unwilling/misunterstanding how shields work.  unless you are a top .001%er, you have to shield.  

I think that's a serious misunderstanding of the experience many people have.

I hit as high as I can, pretty much always. Oftentimes I won't win as much as it says my target is worth, because of some calculation behind the scenes that means that 42 target is now only worth 29 pts. In the meantime, in the time it took me to take down that target, I got hit for 47 points by somebody who had a quick stunner and not much else on their team or something along those lines and a defensive win of 5 pts.

If everyone is shielded that's above 25 pts I didn't advance too quickly - but now I CAN'T advance without spending more iso than I'm winning in skipping targets until I find someone worth hitting.

That's not due to any misunderstanding on my part, that's due to a fundamental flaw in the way PVP works (worked) period.

Doesn't this demonstrate precisely that you don't know how the pvp system works?

No, it proves that if I needed to go to *such* elaborate methods to be reasonably successful, the setup was wrong. I was in it. I could play and win matches and I wasn't picking on the little guys to do it. If I couldn't expect reasonable reward for that without going to elaborate lengths, then the problem isn't me.

To put it in math terms: I'll accept needing to learn a fairly minor algebraic equation along the lines of a + b(^2)/4 in order to play well as a working system for the average user. I don't accept needing to learn and apply the quadratic equation as a well built system.

Y = MX+B

Where X is time spent on forums instead of hitting your queue.   B is how weak their defensive team is.  Y is how untrustworthy your queue will become.    

Don't trust old queues.  Not that elaborate.