HoR opinion poll

2

Comments

  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Neither of them should be legacy.
    shteev said:

    Ohboy said:

    I would be very surprised if the veteran players chimed in and told me bolas was easier or even comparable to tezz. 
    Hiya :)

    Honestly, I dunno about that. It took me quite a few attempts before I had a deck which beat Tezz every time, and that deck had a lot of moving parts... I'd take my Ob deck and swap in 4 cards specifically for that matchup (by hand. The good old days!). Towards the end of the cycle I'd feel happier throwing together something as an experiment, and these decks would be fine.. usually... and then Tezz would get a big old cascade and beat them.

    And some of the moving parts in my Tezz deck were there to exploit *his* technicalities. I ran Deadlock Trap to lock down his tokens. I couldn't energize, but that was OK, because Tezz did it for me.

    Ohboy said:
    OK let's put it this way. 

    Not everyone has an easy time exploiting that weakness that makes it go from epic level danger to cute bunny. 
    Again, I dunno about that. I've seen people in the general chat channel in Slack talk of beating him by just throwing spells like Exquisite Firecraft or even Lightning Javelin at his face. It took them ages, tho :)

    Ouch. That sure doesn't sound like an easy time to me! That's over a hundred javelins you need to throw, and also figure out a way to not die from that one creature he throws out without killing it too many times.
  • James13
    James13 Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    I'm ok with either of the last two options.  I can't decide.  I think when a new PvE comes out it probably should be standard format, but what I can't decide is when it should switch over to legacy.  Maybe when the set isn't the newest one anymore.
  • Sorin81
    Sorin81 Posts: 558 Critical Contributor
    Neither of them should be legacy.
    @shteev I have to disagree with you. I'm not a new player and I did have a hard time with Bolas for a long time. I probably still would not be able to beat him if I hadn't got plugged into a community ( thank you ThePower9!) and gotten help from some great people.
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    Neither of them should be legacy.
    Sorin81 said:
    @shteev I have to disagree with you. I'm not a new player and I did have a hard time with Bolas for a long time. I probably still would not be able to beat him if I hadn't got plugged into a community ( thank you ThePower9!) and gotten help from some great people.

    In some ways this actually makes the game less fun.  Its like reading a strategy guide while playing a console game.  Sure you can win with max points easily, but is that really the point of the game?

    We certainly have a well organized deck building channel, but I pretty much ignore it until I have figured out at least one way to effectively beat the challenges myself.

    Not sure why I am even mentioning this... I guess I am just saying.  Don't ruin the game for yourself by going right to the hive mentality. =)

  • TheDragonHermit
    TheDragonHermit Posts: 465 Mover and Shaker
    RGP should, but not HoR.
    @shteev , @Ohboy , can you guys just have one thread you aren't at each other's throats, I mean other than the HoR change thread that you two were on the same side of that this was supposed to be a poll version of. I am just trying to have a nice poll to make the it easier for Oktagon to see what the players want. You two disagree, let's face it that is what you guys do, is there any chance you can just accept each other's opinions nicely rather than endlessly retreading the same points.
  • Sorin81
    Sorin81 Posts: 558 Critical Contributor
    Neither of them should be legacy.
    Believe me I didn't. I steered clear of all the alliances for a long time. I tried so many ways to do it myself. I even went 300 turn plus with Bolas using a creatureless deck. I could have won that one but it was so time consuming I just quit the match. 
    The hive doesn't tell you how to build your deck. They tell you what works and give you ideas on how to make what you have better. 
  • Firinmahlazer
    Firinmahlazer Posts: 417 Mover and Shaker
    Neither of them should be legacy.
    I don't think RGP should be legacy but if it was I wouldn't care. HOR definitely should remain standard. 
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Neither of them should be legacy.
    TheDragonHermit said:
    @shteev , @Ohboy , can you guys just have one thread you aren't at each other's throats, I mean other than the HoR change thread that you two were on the same side of that this was supposed to be a poll version of. I am just trying to have a nice poll to make the it easier for Oktagon to see what the players want. You two disagree, let's face it that is what you guys do, is there any chance you can just accept each other's opinions nicely rather than endlessly retreading the same points.

    I defy you to find a statement that shows we're not playing nice in this thread.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    TheDragonHermit said:
    @shteev , @Ohboy , can you guys just have one thread you aren't at each other's throats, I mean other than the HoR change thread that you two were on the same side of that this was supposed to be a poll version of. I am just trying to have a nice poll to make the it easier for Oktagon to see what the players want. You two disagree, let's face it that is what you guys do, is there any chance you can just accept each other's opinions nicely rather than endlessly retreading the same points.
    We're being nice to each other. Didn't you notice?

    Also, i feel I should point out that despite what people are saying about me, I haven't come out on this issue one way or the other. I pick my battles, and as someone who doesn't play the game so much, I should probably let all y'all sort it out amoungst yourselves.
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    Neither of them should be legacy.
    Sorin81 said:
    Believe me I didn't. I steered clear of all the alliances for a long time. I tried so many ways to do it myself. I even went 300 turn plus with Bolas using a creatureless deck. I could have won that one but it was so time consuming I just quit the match. 
    The hive doesn't tell you how to build your deck. They tell you what works and give you ideas on how to make what you have better. 

    Well that seems like a reasonable time to pick up the "strategy guide". 

    Anyway, I have definitely had a few experiences where I didn't follow my own advice and ended up using a modified version of a coalitions mates deck on my first attempt.  Worked perfectly.  Ruined the fun. 

    I just think you can do both.  Sure deck building strategies are a huge deal and can often speed up fights or introduce you to interesting interactions.  I just prefer to go in alone at first.

  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    RGP should, but not HoR.
    Ohboy said:
    OK let's put it this way. 

    Not everyone has an easy time exploiting that weakness that makes it go from epic level danger to cute bunny. 

     

    OK sure, not everyone, but you specifically mentioned veterans... Veterans who are likely no strangers to piloting creatureless decks. There are a variety of ways to beat Bolas as well, but they do involve leaving creatures (including tokens) out of your deck. It was mentioned that C1 was used before. If you can make it to RotGP 3.3 with basic walkers, then you likely have the tools to beat him already, since 2.3 is best dealt with by using a creatureless kill-spam deck. 
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Neither of them should be legacy.
    Mainloop25 said:
    Ohboy said:
    OK let's put it this way. 

    Not everyone has an easy time exploiting that weakness that makes it go from epic level danger to cute bunny. 

     

    OK sure, not everyone, but you specifically mentioned veterans... Veterans who are likely no strangers to piloting creatureless decks. There are a variety of ways to beat Bolas as well, but they do involve leaving creatures (including tokens) out of your deck. It was mentioned that C1 was used before. If you can make it to RotGP 3.3 with basic walkers, then you likely have the tools to beat him already, since 2.3 is best dealt with by using a creatureless kill-spam deck. 

    I'll rephrase. For raw power in head on attacks without resorting to exploiting deck design weaknesses, which boss is harder?

    Because those new and casual players? They're not going to be exploiting these deck design flaws. They might yet know it exists, and we're almost out of this expansion.

    To tie back to why I asked the question in the first place... Pve bosses will power creep in legacy just as surely as cards do. That's why I'm against pve events turning legacy. 
  • James13
    James13 Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    It's kinda true.  In the current FirF legacy the AMK expansion in particular destroys many of the harder objectives with ease.
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    RGP should, but not HoR.
    Ohboy said:
    Mainloop25 said:
    Ohboy said:
    OK let's put it this way. 

    Not everyone has an easy time exploiting that weakness that makes it go from epic level danger to cute bunny. 

     

    OK sure, not everyone, but you specifically mentioned veterans... Veterans who are likely no strangers to piloting creatureless decks. There are a variety of ways to beat Bolas as well, but they do involve leaving creatures (including tokens) out of your deck. It was mentioned that C1 was used before. If you can make it to RotGP 3.3 with basic walkers, then you likely have the tools to beat him already, since 2.3 is best dealt with by using a creatureless kill-spam deck. 

    I'll rephrase. For raw power in head on attacks without resorting to exploiting deck design weaknesses, which boss is harder?


    Who cares?  Why would you not exploit the weakness in order to win, unless you have set a personal challenge for yourself? The whole idea of arguing that point makes no sense to me. 
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
    Neither of them should be legacy.
    Because like I said, not everyone figures out the weakness.

    And please don't say they should have joined a mega coalition or forums.

    Also, the next boss may be meaner and might not have these silly weaknesses. 
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
    RGP should, but not HoR.
    You were specifically mentioning the veteran players though, which was the only bone of contention I wanted to pick. 

    I'm active on all the major social networks that center around this game. I'm on reddit and the Facebook page. I even have two different YouTube videos detailing how to beat bolas. If anyone is still struggling at this point, they should seek out help on any of these avenues and because plenty of people are there to help. Many of the mega coalition players are there to give advice, you don't even have to join their coalition! 

    And yes, I agree. Hopefully not. As tough as the trial of zeal bosses are, that is about the level of difficulty that they should be to keep veterans engaged. 
  • mrixl2520
    mrixl2520 Posts: 240 Tile Toppler
    RGP should, but not HoR.
    I think pvp events should be standard to prevent getting overrun (pun intened) by OP cards. However for RPG and “boss battle” type events I think legacy is needed as players need all the power they can muster to compete against the often mono-mythic and/or invocation decks. 
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Neither of them should be legacy.
    mrixl2520 said:
    I think pvp events should be standard to prevent getting overrun (pun intened) by OP cards. However for RPG and “boss battle” type events I think legacy is needed as players need all the power they can muster to compete against the often mono-mythic and/or invocation decks. 

    It's impossible for pve bosses to remain engaging for someone with a vast collection like mine while being possible for a newer player. That's the problem. The divide is big and grows each expansion. 
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    Neither of them should be legacy.
    I didn't notice this, so sorry if it's been mentioned, but one reason the most current PVE event should remain Standard is because they can more effectively balance node difficulty.  Limiting the event to handful of sets with specific mechanics allows it to be accessible (and challenging) to both veterans and newbies.  You'd get fun things like the infamous "win in 3 turns", for example. 


  • mrixl2520
    mrixl2520 Posts: 240 Tile Toppler
    RGP should, but not HoR.
    @Ohboy

    That’s fair, I hadn’t considered that side of things. I could be all for standard boss events if the decks were a little more fair. Initially, I had a difficult time beating the top tier fights with my best cards & PWs. Now I can beat them most of the time, but they aren’t fun. Long battles that could go ****-up after a fortuitous cascade just for a few measly cards or the now worthless purple crystals... Hard pass. Basically I don’t play this game on the weekends anymore :(

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