MPQ at Marvel.com: Nightcrawler (10/17/17)

DrDevilDinosaur

Jaedenkaal said:

Engarde is basically better than Symbiotic Assault, though. It costs less, does more damage in either case, requires less AP for the rider (although in a specific color). not to mention that Nightcrawler is capable of generating AP

Agreed. I was posting from my phone, so I skipped over some of the detail and messed up my calculations on damage. I had thought En Garde was going to be much closer to the damage numbers on Symbiotic Assault, but it's very clearly going to be a better version of that ability. Even the strongest colour requirement for the rider is probably more of a benefit than a hinderance, since that can usually be controlled in advance and can bring specific batteries.

I've been doing some calculations on Blue and the only possibilities are that it's AOE or the devs made a miscalculation. The dmg per AP in enemy pool from Mordo is almost exactly 3 times stronger that Kurt here. So if that damage is actually being dealt to all enemies then were back to being equivalent and then we're talking about a 3 AP cost difference for stealing AP instead of destroying. I can agree that stealing is worth the extra cost - and if it is an AOE and he's stealing from each enemy that he hits, then this is a very powerful ability.

Of course, it's all conjecture at this point, and I'm not about to hold my breath waiting for good news. I'll just be pleasantly surprised if it turns out that way.

JHawkInc

Used Nightcrawler in the Join Forces node of Shield Training.

Only one match, but fun so far, animations are fun, glad to see him in the game.

But his purple power converts basic tiles to the color most prevalent on the board. And it doesn't tell you what color that is. Didn't we have a huge update to fix this problem with old powers? How'd that slip through the cracks?

DarthDeVo

JHawkInc said:

Used Nightcrawler in the Join Forces node of Shield Training.

Only one match, but fun so far, animations are fun, glad to see him in the game.

But his purple power converts basic tiles to the color most prevalent on the board. And it doesn't tell you what color that is. Didn't we have a huge update to fix this problem with old powers? How'd that slip through the cracks?

Also did this node, and the blue is NOT AoE. What a weak, disappointing power. There are 2* characters with better powers than this.

Nightcrawler is one of my favorite characters and I've waited a long time for him. To finally get him in game and be so thoroughly meh breaks my heart.

Campaign to get him reworked officially starts now. I mean, how do you have a power called Everywhere At Once and it isn't an AoE?

talleman

Tried him in Training and his blue is not AoE. To bad However i realized that if purple is the most present colour on the board you can use his purple power over and over untill you have downed all opponents with match damage.

bluewolf

His Blue is definitely not AOE.  Maybe they made his offense weaker because he auto-avoids AOE.

And his purple makes rainbow teams pretty darned important.

zodiac339

zodiac339 said:

Ahhhh. Blue steals, not destroys AP. I wonder, it doesn’t designate “target enemy”, but also doesn’t say “enemy team’s strongest color”. If it were specific to the targeted enemy, that could make a world of difference.

Zodiac lets out a resigned sigh, after experiencing that blue does indeed use the enemy team strongest color rather than the target enemy. Oh well. Stealing or destroying AP doesn’t seem all that Nightcrawlerish anyway, so whatever.

janderlick

talleman said:

Tried him in Training and his blue is not AoE. To bad However i realized that if purple is the most present colour on the board you can use his purple power over and over untill you have downed all opponents with match damage.

Second this comment. I began to think that NC is broken when purple is the most present on the board. The board just continues to fill up will purple and you continue to BAMF your way to victory. He is a single man Winfinite. Use him with Switch to help fill the board with purple. I'm slightly worried he gets Nerfed quickly.

D4Ni13

janderlick said:

talleman said:

Tried him in Training and his blue is not AoE. To bad However i realized that if purple is the most present colour on the board you can use his purple power over and over untill you have downed all opponents with match damage.

Second this comment. I began to think that NC is broken when purple is the most present on the board. The board just continues to fill up will purple and you continue to BAMF your way to victory. He is a single man Winfinite. Use him with Switch to help fill the board with purple. I'm slightly worried he gets Nerfed quickly.

Indeed he is OP in that case. I killed 5k Flaptain and 5k Quake, that had 5-6 protect tiles that prevented me from doing damage, with BAMF! and purple on the board in a single turn winfinite. 

jamesh

janderlick said:

talleman said:

Tried him in Training and his blue is not AoE. To bad However i realized that if purple is the most present colour on the board you can use his purple power over and over untill you have downed all opponents with match damage.

Second this comment. I began to think that NC is broken when purple is the most present on the board. The board just continues to fill up will purple and you continue to BAMF your way to victory. He is a single man Winfinite. Use him with Switch to help fill the board with purple. I'm slightly worried he gets Nerfed quickly.

Yeah.  I managed the same using the three loaner characters for the first node of SHIELD Training.  I was almost dead when I got enough purple.  With purple as the most common colour, the enemy didn't get another turn.

DarthDeVo

D4Ni13 said:

janderlick said:

talleman said:

Tried him in Training and his blue is not AoE. To bad However i realized that if purple is the most present colour on the board you can use his purple power over and over untill you have downed all opponents with match damage.

Second this comment. I began to think that NC is broken when purple is the most present on the board. The board just continues to fill up will purple and you continue to BAMF your way to victory. He is a single man Winfinite. Use him with Switch to help fill the board with purple. I'm slightly worried he gets Nerfed quickly.

Indeed he is OP in that case. I killed 5k Flaptain and 5k Quake, that had 5-6 protect tiles that prevented me from doing damage, with BAMF! and purple on the board in a single turn winfinite. 

Still strikes me as highly conditional. If you happen to have one particular color out of seven  (counting TU tiles), then great. And the one character who can (maybe) help get more of that color is a 3*, unless she matches it away herself. He's just an all around conditional character anyway, which highly limits his functionality, and that bothers me. 

Maybe I'm overreacting and he'll end up being better than I think, but I wanted more from my favorite character. He also suffers by comparison, coming after the pretty great Rogue and Gambit.

D4Ni13

DarthDeVo said:

D4Ni13 said:

janderlick said:

talleman said:

Tried him in Training and his blue is not AoE. To bad However i realized that if purple is the most present colour on the board you can use his purple power over and over untill you have downed all opponents with match damage.

Second this comment. I began to think that NC is broken when purple is the most present on the board. The board just continues to fill up will purple and you continue to BAMF your way to victory. He is a single man Winfinite. Use him with Switch to help fill the board with purple. I'm slightly worried he gets Nerfed quickly.

Indeed he is OP in that case. I killed 5k Flaptain and 5k Quake, that had 5-6 protect tiles that prevented me from doing damage, with BAMF! and purple on the board in a single turn winfinite. 

Still strikes me as highly conditional. If you happen to have one particular color out of seven  (counting TU tiles), then great. And the one character who can (maybe) help get more of that color is a 3*, unless she matches it away herself. He's just an all around conditional character anyway, which highly limits his functionality, and that bothers me. 

Maybe I'm overreacting and he'll end up being better than I think, but I wanted more from my favorite character. He also suffers by comparison, coming after the pretty great Rogue and Gambit.

I also think he is very conditional and he does suffer for coming after Rogue & Gambit. His animations and feel of playing him are great though. I really like BAMF! as an ability, but am a little afraid by his purple condition. I was able to make it in 2 consecutive games without having someone to enhance the board in my favor. This being said, the other 2 abilities are not outstanding. En garde! is decent, but his blue is plain awful IMO. 

But of course we have to see a champ in action to really know how dangerous or not he can be. 

DarthDeVo

D4Ni13 said:

DarthDeVo said:

D4Ni13 said:

janderlick said:

talleman said:

Tried him in Training and his blue is not AoE. To bad However i realized that if purple is the most present colour on the board you can use his purple power over and over untill you have downed all opponents with match damage.

Second this comment. I began to think that NC is broken when purple is the most present on the board. The board just continues to fill up will purple and you continue to BAMF your way to victory. He is a single man Winfinite. Use him with Switch to help fill the board with purple. I'm slightly worried he gets Nerfed quickly.

Indeed he is OP in that case. I killed 5k Flaptain and 5k Quake, that had 5-6 protect tiles that prevented me from doing damage, with BAMF! and purple on the board in a single turn winfinite. 

Still strikes me as highly conditional. If you happen to have one particular color out of seven  (counting TU tiles), then great. And the one character who can (maybe) help get more of that color is a 3*, unless she matches it away herself. He's just an all around conditional character anyway, which highly limits his functionality, and that bothers me. 

Maybe I'm overreacting and he'll end up being better than I think, but I wanted more from my favorite character. He also suffers by comparison, coming after the pretty great Rogue and Gambit.

I also think he is very conditional and he does suffer for coming after Rogue & Gambit. His animations and feel of playing him are great though. I really like BAMF! as an ability, but am a little afraid by his purple condition. I was able to make it in 2 consecutive games without having someone to enhance the board in my favor. This being said, the other 2 abilities are not outstanding. En garde! is decent, but his blue is plain awful IMO. 

But of course we have to see a champ in action to really know how dangerous or not he can be. 

Yeah, I do dig the artwork and animations, and BAMF! can be a fun power. But that's about it.

I had a feeling he was going to be a support character, and I was OK with that, but as he stands now I'm just not overly impressed so far. 

I've only played the initial node of SHIELD Training so far, and that particular board was flooded with black, which was useless for NC/Rogue/IW. I fired BAMF! the first time mostly hoping for cascades and to get new colors on the board. I think the second time it was mostly red, which filled up En Garde. Last time was blue. So definitely a "YMMV" type scenario.

Another big issue will be how the AI plays him. We all know the AI fires powers as soon as it has enough AP. It won't care what color is most prevalent on the board when it fires his purple. It won't wait until you have 12/10 in your strongest color to get the bonus damage from his red. And it will fire blue whether the enemy team has 0 AP in its strongest color or 30 or anything in between.

He has the potential to get out of control with his purple, especially if that's the most common color on the board, but beyond that, he really won't be much of a threat from what I can tell. 

Skygazing

Numbers at 270 are about as underwhelming as people estimated:

HP: 13,034

BAMF!
3: Convert up to 6 basic tiles to the color most present on the board
4: Convert up to 7 basic tiles to the color most present on the board
5: Convert up to 8 basic tiles to the color most present on the board

En Garde!
3: Deal 2525 damage, or 4203 if you have 12 AP in your strongest color
4: Deal 3337 damage, or 5321 if you have 10 AP in your strongest color
5: Deal 5050 damage, or 8118 if you have 10 AP in your strongest color

Everywhere At Once
3: Deal 153 damage per AP in opponent's strongest color, steal 2 of that AP
4: Deal 189 damage per AP in opponent's strongest color, steal 3 of that AP
5: Deal 261 damage per AP in opponent's strongest color, steal 4 of that AP

zodiac339

Skygazing said:

Numbers at 270 are about as underwhelming as people estimated:

HP: 13,034

BAMF!
3: Convert up to 6 basic tiles to the color most present on the board
4: Convert up to 7 basic tiles to the color most present on the board
5: Convert up to 8 basic tiles to the color most present on the board

En Garde!
3: Deal 2525 damage, or 4203 if you have 12 AP in your strongest color
4: Deal 3337 damage, or 5321 if you have 10 AP in your strongest color
5: Deal 5050 damage, or 8118 if you have 10 AP in your strongest color

Everywhere At Once
3: Deal 153 damage per AP in opponent's strongest color, steal 2 of that AP
4: Deal 189 damage per AP in opponent's strongest color, steal 3 of that AP
5: Deal 261 damage per AP in opponent's strongest color, steal 4 of that AP

For 12 AP, for 1/4 the damage of Power with Purpose along with a bigger restriction on which AP pool it hits, meaning even less potential damage. 5/5/3 and find someone else for blue. Oh well.

Anon

I don't think Nightcrawler is particularly underwhelming. I just think we all had such high expections after Rogue and Gambit (2 fantastically designed characters) and with how long desired Kurt was people had very high expectations for him. I think he looks great. He's not Carol or Peggy level good, but that's not an easy bar to reach.

I think the devs did fine with him.

Skygazing

Should clarify that I don't think his design is especially underwhelming, just that his numbers are. Purple is definitely his best power given its passive component and ability to make him a solo winfinite character, but Red is pretty middle of the road as far as modern nukes go, and Blue is just incredibly niche given the cost and damage. Its numbers could easily be tweaked up without breaking the character.

D4Ni13

DarthDeVo said:

Another big issue will be how the AI plays him. We all know the AI fires powers as soon as it has enough AP. It won't care what color is most prevalent on the board when it fires his purple. It won't wait until you have 12/10 in your strongest color to get the bonus damage from his red. And it will fire blue whether the enemy team has 0 AP in its strongest color or 30 or anything in between.

He has the potential to get out of control with his purple, especially if that's the most common color on the board, but beyond that, he really won't be much of a threat from what I can tell. 

Well, I can't remember if his red cost 8 or 9 to cast, and having 10 as threshold is not that bad, unless the AI takes exact 3 matches with red before firing the ability. But I guess in most cases it will reach 10 AP before firing the ability anyway, so 5 covers in red would assure the AI playing him a little better. 

I already said before I saw his numbers that he's a 5-5-3 for me, and this time I wasn't wrong (sorry 3* Gambit). I don't really understand why blue abilities other than stuns are pretty weak, with very few exceptions. Yondu breaks this pattern, but Grokect suffers from the same thing as Nightcrawler - expensive and less reliable ability in blue. 

Dunamis101

Nightcrawler Specs (Quick Analysis)

https://youtu.be/WIoUZir5tRk

D4Ni13

Dunamis101 said:

Nightcrawler Specs (Quick Analysis)

https://youtu.be/WIoUZir5tRk

Thanks. You should really post more stuff on you channel if you like this kind of things and have the time to do so. I am constantly searching for a channel that would cover new characters like you do now. CaptainJoel was one example, but he stopped streaming 5 month ago I guess. Would really be a place you would have chances to succed. Keep up the good work . 

Dunamis101

D4Ni13 said:

Dunamis101 said:

Nightcrawler Specs (Quick Analysis)

https://youtu.be/WIoUZir5tRk

Thanks. You should really post more stuff on you channel if you like this kind of things and have the time to do so. I am constantly searching for a channel that would cover new characters like you do now. CaptainJoel was one example, but he stopped streaming 5 month ago I guess. Would really be a place you would have chances to succed. Keep up the good work . 

If I still had my mic i would stream, i used to stream a lot of other games but this is what i mainly play now. I'm no captain joel but i also enjoyed his videos. I don't know if I would have the time, but what would you recommend as far as content? I still plan to make analysis videos as soon as characters become available in store. What else do you think people would like to see?