MPQ at Marvel.com: Nightcrawler (10/17/17)

Rick_OShay

Jarvind said:

Is his blue not just a more expensive version of Mordo's purple? Am I missing something there?

Mordo's purple hits for the highest number of AP the enemy has. 
Nightcrawler works on the enemy strongest color pool.

D4Ni13

Rick OShay said:

Jarvind said:

Is his blue not just a more expensive version of Mordo's purple? Am I missing something there?

Mordo's purple hits for the highest number of AP the enemy has. 
Nightcrawler works on the enemy strongest color pool.

Yes, I would say it is a lot weaker than Mordo's...

DapperChewie said:

Ezrius said:

Of the remaining 4-Star X-Men not used in the previous SHIELD Training, I have Jean, X-23, and Cyclops championed, and Iceman at 5/5/1.

So I'm assuming it will either not use X-Men, or use quasi-X-person-but-not-really Deadpool (3/0/4) just to lock me out of the Kurt cover.  Or use Prof X again, who couldn't get me Rogue.  ...  Or use Rogue as the ultimate slap in the face.

Well, based off of this thread, 
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/67946/mpq-sneak-peek-october-2017-edition-updated-10-17-17/p1

Brigby said:
S.H.I.E.L.D. Training - Nightcrawler (10/19/17) *New Update*
Featured Characters
4-Star: Nightcrawler, Rogue, Invisible Woman, Elektra (Unkillable)

I would expect that Rogue is indeed needed.

It sucks. Rogue isn't in LTs yet, she's been featured exactly once, there is no way to get her to 13 covers outside of paying a large amount of real money if you didn't hoard a bunch of CP (and that's only if you got all 3 of her colors.)

I shouldn't be surprised at this point, but I still am.


edit: just saw brigby's post above mine. Perhaps they will lower the requirements a bit for the required cover.

Rogue will enter packs the same date Shield Training starts, since it should be the start of a new season. So you can cover Rogue...

Vhailorx

I love using cloak and dagger to generate black and purple ap!

And i bet nightcrawler would play really well with pre-rework 4* star lord too!

D4Ni13

I would say 5-5-3 by a mile even though I don't know the numbers yet. I don't understand the cost of his blue... 12 AP for a weaker ability than Mordo's purple ? Yeaaaah, no thank you. Unless you get a lot of damage for those 12 AP...

His animations seem very nice though. 

vinsensual

For some reason, I'm reading his blue as an AOE.  When I think of "everywhere at once" I think of his arcade game ability that hit almost everyone on screen.  

Rick_OShay

vinsensual said:

For some reason, I'm reading his blue as an AOE.  When I think of "everywhere at once" I think of his arcade game ability that hit almost everyone on screen.  

Aha, I hope you are right, definitely makes sense for this blue to be an aoe. 
Interesting 'bonus' damage listed on his red. It's almost a penalty since you will only get the boosted damage if you have 12 in your -teams- strongest color. The power description of his red actually does not include the word 'teams'.  Looks like it could hit quite strong though, and team color planning will be very important.

D4Ni13

Rick OShay said:

vinsensual said:

For some reason, I'm reading his blue as an AOE.  When I think of "everywhere at once" I think of his arcade game ability that hit almost everyone on screen.  

Aha, I hope you are right, definitely makes sense for this blue to be an aoe. 
Interesting 'bonus' damage listed on his red. It's almost a penalty since you will only get the boosted damage if you have 12 in your -teams- strongest color. The power description of his red actually does not include the word 'teams'.  Could hit quite strong though, and team color planning will be very important.

I don't know, something feels iffy about him. I mean Mockinbird and Mordo have better individual abilities in destroying strong color AP and deal damage for it, while he has an expensive but weaker (??) combination of both. His red condition goes around strong color as well, so I see his purple very important for his gameplay to actual feed the other 2. But having all about strong color would turn him into a niche character...

My problem is that strong color in general is used and not collected as much, for both enemies & allies. An enemy Carol will cast photonic barage as soon as she has 8 black (usually her team's strong color). Nightcrawler won't have the chance to deny her in time with his costly blue, and even if he does, he probably deals less damage than Mordo would for less AP. On the other side, having to gather around 12 AP in my strong color (granted this could be lowered with 5 covers, don't know) seems to only be fulfilled with a well timed purple ability... but then again you have to have the board in your favor (that would be thematic, because he cannot teleport where he cannot see, because he may teleport into the wall - he said so in a movie or cartoon). So while thematic, not so reliable.

Overall I'm really content about him, and wait to actually see him in play, but the first impression is not great. I was wrong about 3* Gambit though, so I could be wrong again.

DrDevilDinosaur

Following on from the idea that Blue could be an AOE, the description in the article reads:

"Deals damage for each point of AP the enemy has in their strongest color and destroys 4 AP in that pool."

What if he damages each enemy based on their own strongest colour? That is, a kind of variable damage AOE. That would definitely distinguish it from similar abilities that already exist. It would be stronger if each enemy has a different colour, although pools may not be as full; it would be weaker against a team where the strongest colour was shared, since it destroys 4 each time, but you might be able to wait for that pool to really fill up.

Melevorn

It's been a while, but this puts me in mind of XFW's old Surgical Strike (without the board shake).

Overall, not particularly impressed.  Of the newer characters, Vulture and Rogue seem like "must haves" to me, Lockjaw and Mockingbird are "nice to have", and poor Nightcrawler feels like Yondu - good potential but not useful in practice. IMHO.

Which is a shame, as both Nightcrawler and Yondu are great characters in the stories... 

Jaedenkaal

D4Ni13 said:

Rick OShay said:

vinsensual said:

For some reason, I'm reading his blue as an AOE.  When I think of "everywhere at once" I think of his arcade game ability that hit almost everyone on screen.  

Aha, I hope you are right, definitely makes sense for this blue to be an aoe. 
Interesting 'bonus' damage listed on his red. It's almost a penalty since you will only get the boosted damage if you have 12 in your -teams- strongest color. The power description of his red actually does not include the word 'teams'.  Could hit quite strong though, and team color planning will be very important.

I don't know, something feels iffy about him. I mean Mockinbird and Mordo have better individual abilities in destroying strong color AP and deal damage for it, while he has an expensive but weaker (??) combination of both. His red condition goes around strong color as well, so I see his purple very important for his gameplay to actual feed the other 2. But having all about strong color would turn him into a niche character...

My problem is that strong color in general is used and not collected as much, for both enemies & allies. An enemy Carol will cast photonic barage as soon as she has 8 black (usually her team's strong color). Nightcrawler won't have the chance to deny her in time with his costly blue, and even if he does, he probably deals less damage than Mordo would for less AP. On the other side, having to gather around 12 AP in my strong color (granted this could be lowered with 5 covers, don't know) seems to only be fulfilled with a well timed purple ability... but then again you have to have the board in your favor (that would be thematic, because he cannot teleport where he cannot see, because he may teleport into the wall - he said so in a movie or cartoon). So while thematic, not so reliable.

Overall I'm really content about him, and wait to actually see him in play, but the first impression is not great. I was wrong about 3* Gambit though, so I could be wrong again.

All depends on the numbers, of course. I'm also in the group that read his Blue power doing AOE damage (otherwise, he's hardly everywhere). Could be really excellent on a team with Rogue, given a well-timed Gloves Off.

And, of course, he's a hard counter to Jean and Thanos. (And Sandman? Poor Sandman)

DapperChewie

D4Ni13 said:

Rick OShay said:

Jarvind said:

Is his blue not just a more expensive version of Mordo's purple? Am I missing something there?

Mordo's purple hits for the highest number of AP the enemy has. 
Nightcrawler works on the enemy strongest color pool.

Yes, I would say it is a lot weaker than Mordo's...

DapperChewie said:

Ezrius said:

Of the remaining 4-Star X-Men not used in the previous SHIELD Training, I have Jean, X-23, and Cyclops championed, and Iceman at 5/5/1.

So I'm assuming it will either not use X-Men, or use quasi-X-person-but-not-really Deadpool (3/0/4) just to lock me out of the Kurt cover.  Or use Prof X again, who couldn't get me Rogue.  ...  Or use Rogue as the ultimate slap in the face.

Well, based off of this thread, 
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/67946/mpq-sneak-peek-october-2017-edition-updated-10-17-17/p1

Brigby said:
S.H.I.E.L.D. Training - Nightcrawler (10/19/17) *New Update*
Featured Characters
4-Star: Nightcrawler, Rogue, Invisible Woman, Elektra (Unkillable)

I would expect that Rogue is indeed needed.

It sucks. Rogue isn't in LTs yet, she's been featured exactly once, there is no way to get her to 13 covers outside of paying a large amount of real money if you didn't hoard a bunch of CP (and that's only if you got all 3 of her colors.)

I shouldn't be surprised at this point, but I still am.


edit: just saw brigby's post above mine. Perhaps they will lower the requirements a bit for the required cover.

Rogue will enter packs the same date Shield Training starts, since it should be the start of a new season. So you can cover Rogue...

You need her at 209. That's 10 covers.

Not really feasible for non whales or hoarders. There are going to be approximately zero f2p players that can even qualify to do the last column, as it requires all 3 characters at 209.

With a brand new character being required, I feel they should require them to have one cover, maybe 2 or 3. But 10? It's ridiculous and unreasonable, it locks put the majority of the player base, and comes off as just another money grab.

D4Ni13

Jaedenkaal said:

D4Ni13 said:

Rick OShay said:

vinsensual said:

For some reason, I'm reading his blue as an AOE.  When I think of "everywhere at once" I think of his arcade game ability that hit almost everyone on screen.  

Aha, I hope you are right, definitely makes sense for this blue to be an aoe. 
Interesting 'bonus' damage listed on his red. It's almost a penalty since you will only get the boosted damage if you have 12 in your -teams- strongest color. The power description of his red actually does not include the word 'teams'.  Could hit quite strong though, and team color planning will be very important.

I don't know, something feels iffy about him. I mean Mockinbird and Mordo have better individual abilities in destroying strong color AP and deal damage for it, while he has an expensive but weaker (??) combination of both. His red condition goes around strong color as well, so I see his purple very important for his gameplay to actual feed the other 2. But having all about strong color would turn him into a niche character...

My problem is that strong color in general is used and not collected as much, for both enemies & allies. An enemy Carol will cast photonic barage as soon as she has 8 black (usually her team's strong color). Nightcrawler won't have the chance to deny her in time with his costly blue, and even if he does, he probably deals less damage than Mordo would for less AP. On the other side, having to gather around 12 AP in my strong color (granted this could be lowered with 5 covers, don't know) seems to only be fulfilled with a well timed purple ability... but then again you have to have the board in your favor (that would be thematic, because he cannot teleport where he cannot see, because he may teleport into the wall - he said so in a movie or cartoon). So while thematic, not so reliable.

Overall I'm really content about him, and wait to actually see him in play, but the first impression is not great. I was wrong about 3* Gambit though, so I could be wrong again.

All depends on the numbers, of course. I'm also in the group that read his Blue power doing AOE damage (otherwise, he's hardly everywhere). Could be really excellent on a team with Rogue, given a well-timed Gloves Off.

And, of course, he's a hard counter to Jean and Thanos. (And Sandman? Poor Sandman)

I hope you're right. But for me, the description doesn't say AoE, since it doesn't say enemy team, but just enemy. 

10_EFX_01

GRocket-Gamorph4-Medusa will handle...

broll

DapperChewie said:

You need her at 209. That's 10 covers.

Not really feasible for non whales or hoarders. 

Hoarding isn't going to help you get more covers for a character not in vaults.  Only way it could possibly help is if you were willing spend 120 CP a pop for extra covers and that isn't a good deal, especially to do for many covers as frequently as these appear they may come out.  This feature is for whales and no one else.

broll

OJSP said:

broll said:

DapperChewie said:

You need her at 209. That's 10 covers.

Not really feasible for non whales or hoarders. 

Hoarding isn't going to help you get more covers for a character not in vaults.  Only way it could possibly help is if you were willing spend 120 CP a pop for extra covers and that isn't a good deal, especially to do for many covers as frequently as these appear they may come out.  This feature is for whales and no one else.

She should be in tokens at the start of the season. The event will run at least until then, I think.

Nightcrawler won't be and he's also level-restricted required.

broll

OJSP said:

broll said:

OJSP said:

broll said:

DapperChewie said:

You need her at 209. That's 10 covers.

Not really feasible for non whales or hoarders. 

Hoarding isn't going to help you get more covers for a character not in vaults.  Only way it could possibly help is if you were willing spend 120 CP a pop for extra covers and that isn't a good deal, especially to do for many covers as frequently as these appear they may come out.  This feature is for whales and no one else.

She should be in tokens at the start of the season. The event will run at least until then, I think.

Nightcrawler won't be and he's also level-restricted required.

But the post we've been quoting was talking about Rogue.. I was also replying about her. Hence my usage of "she". Anyway, we're just nit picking now. Nightcrawler will be available in some sort of vault or packs and those who hoard HPs will be able to get them.

Hadn't really considered that there are people that hoard HP.  That's a somewhat more reasonable call out.  It still doesn't seem like great value since the new character rates in their store are normally like 2% or something incredibly small.  You end up with the same problem I pointed out with using CP hoards to get her/him/whoever.  The ROI isn't worth it.  You could easily drop 20k HP to get 5-10 covers from those new stores, is that worth a handful of CP and an LT?  Maybe to some, but it doesn't sound like a good trade to me...

Also if they keeping doing these every release unless you're a whale you won't be able to keep up with the CP/HP needed to do this free.  So one or two events, sure a hoarder might get it, but it's not sustainable if it's a regular event which seems to be the intent.

zodiac339

Ahhhh. Blue steals, not destroys AP. I wonder, it doesn’t designate “target enemy”, but also doesn’t say “enemy team’s strongest color”. If it were specific to the targeted enemy, that could make a world of difference.

658

Nightcrawler should have an aoe.  Remeber him taking out the Hellfire goons in the Dark Phoenix comics?  Iconic stuff.

DrDevilDinosaur

In game preview is up and clarifies a few things.
Purple changes 6/7/8 basic tiles at rank 3/4/5 respectively. I don't think those 2 extra tiles for 2 whole ranks are really worthwhile. Adding those 2 ranks to his other abilities will result in extra damage, so I feel like his only build is 3/5/5.

Red is comparable to Agent Venom's red. Kurt has a lower threshold at rank 4 & 5 (10 AP) but it has to be his team's strongest colour, whereas AV can be any pool.

As stated above, Blue actually steals AP which makes it slightly more appealing. Otherwise it still looks like a slightly weaker yet more expensive version of Mordo's purple.

Pretty grim first impression for me. Seeing a lot of recycled mechanics that are, at best, offering the same as something else already in the game.

Jaedenkaal

Engarde is basically better than Symbiotic Assault, though. It costs less, does more damage in either case, requires less AP for the rider (although in a specific color). not to mention that Nightcrawler is capable of generating AP

Everywhere at Once seems significantly worse than Power With Purpose. (I'm still holding out for team damage) The steal is a thing, but limiting the color to the enemy's strongest (instead of their largest pool) is a downside the majority of the time. Again, Nightcrawler can at least (technically) self-accelerate Blue, while Mordo can't say the same for Purple, but I'm not sure that makes up for only doing 33% as much damage (one third!) at 33% higher cost.

It is mostly better than Precision Shot against 6+ AP, assuming you only want to steal your opponents strongest color. So... yay? Except for costing 12. Boo.