Where is HoR?

Kinesia

While it's narrow-minded to call people narrow-minded the important thing is to make it your personal responsibility to open their mind. Since you noticed it you are now obligated to fix it. So you have to get your verbal hammer and chisel and follow them to every conversation and chip away and open up their mind bit by bit.

But it's your personal responsibility and you can't stop, you've now adopted this person, they are your new child and their personal growth is on you.

bk1234

Kinesia said:

While it's narrow-minded to call people narrow-minded the important thing is to make it your personal responsibility to open their mind. Since you noticed it you are now obligated to fix it. So you have to get your verbal hammer and chisel and follow them to every conversation and chip away and open up their mind bit by bit.

But it's your personal responsibility and you can't stop, you've now adopted this person, they are your new child and their personal growth is on you.

@Kinesia you feed my soul. Thank you. 

Matthew

bken1234 said:

If we are to respect the opinions of ALL players, we need to respect the fact that there are higher level players who don't see the value in buying planeswalkers anymore. I don't see the value in runes at all anymore and think they should be deleted as currency. However, that's a different thread. 

First of all, I will grant that you make a relevant point in that all players' opinions can and should be at least heard (although whether or not they should be considered is a different matter for a different thread). After all, I enjoy this game enough that I would like to see it continue, and I believe that ensuring an broadly enjoyable experience is the best way to go about making that happen.

bken1234 said:

@Ohboy @Matthew I think you are both being a little narrow minded -- and would like to remind you it's not nice to call other people narrow minded.

I'll also grant that you have been a champion for "the little guys" for almost the entirety of this games existence; that's why your name was in my post in the "Elite vs Noobs" thread. I respect the passion you have for this game and the ridiculous amount of effort you have exerted to make this community as vibrant and social as it is. Where I take issue with this particular post of yours is in the fact that while you are calling me out for this behavior, you yourself are doing exactly the same thing. You cannot tell me I'm being narrow-minded while also telling me not to tell other people that they are being narrow-minded. That is textbook hypocrisy. And if you're doing it to try to make some point, you really need to make that clear in the first place. However even when clarified, that sort of retort does not engender in its intended target a sense that you are trying to drive a productive conversation. Rather, it comes across as petulant, tetchy, and reactionary.

bken1234 said:

Instead of jumping at someone and calling them narrow minded @Matthew it is healthier for the game if you actually try to keep the conversation civil -- at the very least on threads I start and am notified to read every post on. 

A few other points about this particular section. First, if you'll go back to the thread I mentioned above, you will see that I am actually very much a proponent of civil discussion. In fact, the motives behind that post and the apparently offending post you're referencing here are one and the same. I probably could have approached it better, certainly, but as I have already pointed out, pots shouldn't yell at kettles for being black. But the point is that I was trying to stimulate conversation, so that we could better understand each others positions.

As OhBoy pointed out (though perhaps a bit too snidely and obliquely), Dave808's point of view seems to be solely based upon his own interests. It does not take into account the desires of other players. In fact, it makes assumptions for those other players by presuming that they too have no plans to purchase new Planeswalkers or invest more runes into them. For instance, I currently have all of the Planeswalkers, but there are several I have not pushed to level 60 yet. Thus, runes are indeed a decent reward for me. Now I will admit that using myself as an example is not necessarily objective, but that's not the point. The point is to illustrate that the blanket assumption made in Dave808's post about top-tier and mid-level players is simply erroneous. I'm sure there are those who would agree with him. But there are absolutely those who would disagree with him.

As things stand right now, I have ~140K runes in the bank, and at current rates, I can make about 140K - 160K runes in a month. Considering that with Ixalan's arrival, we're looking at a minimum of two dual-color Planeswalkers (both of whom I plan to buy) and possibly one mono-colored 'walker, that comes out to 400K runes I'll need to have if I want to max them all to 60. So runes are a resource that will never got to waste for me.

So I guess to wrap this up:

1) Yeah, my netiquette could use some polish. I'll try to do better next time. There's no sarcasm here, truly. I want the game to do well, and part of that involves having healthy discussions with other players.
2) Don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house.
3) Using one's own situation as the sole basis for an argument on how the game should evolve is, in fact, narrow-minded, because it really only takes into account the thoughts and opinions of one mind.

Ohboy

Matthew said:

As OhBoy pointed out (though perhaps a bit too snidely and obliquely), Dave808's point of view seems to be solely based upon his own interests.

Wait, that was me taking extreme pains to be nice and helpful.

Since this has become a point of contention, I'll diffuse your misunderstanding with bken by correcting your English(and possibly come off as snide). You didn't mean to say Dave was narrow minded. You meant to say his view was too narrow. Those are different things.

majincob

Ohboy said:

...snip...

Since this has become a point of contention, I'll diffuse your misunderstanding with bken by correcting your English(and possibly come off as snide). You didn't mean to say Dave was narrow minded. You meant to say his view was too narrow. Those are different things.

That's how I read the intent of his statement.

Matthew

Ohboy said:

Matthew said:

As OhBoy pointed out (though perhaps a bit too snidely and obliquely), Dave808's point of view seems to be solely based upon his own interests.

Wait, that was me taking extreme pains to be nice and helpful.

Since this has become a point of contention, I'll diffuse your misunderstanding with bken by correcting your English(and possibly come off as snide). You didn't mean to say Dave was narrow minded. You meant to say his view was too narrow. Those are different things.

You know what, you're right. That was what I meant. Apologies for wording it incorrectly, and thank you for the clarification.