Does tanking still work in the season 1 simulator?

TheHueyFreeman

Not the PvE. i'm talking about the PvP thats in season one.

NorthernPolarity

It doesn't look like it. Seems like demiurge is starting to patch up all of the exploits that we've been doing.

DrNitroman

Let's just hope they will eventually fix the crazy mechanics that lead us to search these exploits...
(and I'm not just cynical, I think they actually improved PvP mechanics, but not enough to suppress the need to tank)

Unknown

I think tanking doesn't work anymore, period. Before I started my climb in the Loki event, I retreated more than half my roster, without seeing a considerable decrease in enemy levels.

Unknown

Tanking has definitely changed, since a recent update. I don't think retreat-tanking works anymore. But I lost some fights naturally and it seemed to lower the difficulty of opponents somewhat, after a couple skips.

I'm tempted to just stick with using 2* chars in pvp. The 3* fights take longer to fight and heal (6+ hours!!!), not to mention getting exponentially harder opponents. At least my 2*'s can heal, kill and move along at a good pace, losing a few here and there to keep the 141's from showing up.

NorthernPolarity

gorgehound wrote:

Tanking has definitely changed, since a recent update. I don't think retreat-tanking works anymore. But I lost some fights naturally and it seemed to lower the difficulty of opponents somewhat, after a couple skips.

I'm tempted to just stick with using 2* chars in pvp. The 3* fights take longer to fight and heal (6+ hours!!!), not to mention getting exponentially harder opponents. At least my 2*'s can heal, kill and move along at a good pace, losing a few here and there to keep the 141's from showing up.

I feel like doing this is going to take more time and be a lot more boring than just using the 3*s.

Unknown

WolfmanX25 wrote:

I think tanking doesn't work anymore, period. Before I started my climb in the Loki event, I retreated more than half my roster, without seeing a considerable decrease in enemy levels.

Active tanking no longer works at all to lower MMR. Active tanking removal was first seen on Tuesday at the start of the LRs. The Season 1 Simulator lost active tanking sometime on Friday.

Unknown

Lyrian wrote:

WolfmanX25 wrote:

I think tanking doesn't work anymore, period. Before I started my climb in the Loki event, I retreated more than half my roster, without seeing a considerable decrease in enemy levels.

Active tanking no longer works at all to lower MMR. Active tanking removal was first seen on Tuesday at the start of the LRs. The Season 1 Simulator lost active tanking sometime on Friday.

What is active tanking? And what is passive tanking

Unknown

gobstopper wrote:

Lyrian wrote:

WolfmanX25 wrote:

I think tanking doesn't work anymore, period. Before I started my climb in the Loki event, I retreated more than half my roster, without seeing a considerable decrease in enemy levels.

Active tanking no longer works at all to lower MMR. Active tanking removal was first seen on Tuesday at the start of the LRs. The Season 1 Simulator lost active tanking sometime on Friday.

What is active tanking? And what is passive tanking

My guess is:

active: you yourself doing something to tank your mmr, for example, retreating

passive: others doing something to tank your mmr, for example, kicking your butt


Just trying to answer a question. We all know I know nothing

Spoit

So the ghast method should still work?

DrNitroman

Spoit wrote:

So the ghast method should still work?

As I understand what have being said (or supposed) by others in the thread, I'd say no.
Ghast maneuver involves active tanking by retreating and this is what is assumed to not working anymore.
But the 'old way' should still work: passive tanking by the use of a weak tank team?

Honestly, the more the devs are trying to tweak the mechanics and the less I understand how it is working...

(But maybe it's their objective: if I don't understand anything about mechanics, I won't be trying to optimize anymore )

Bowgentle

Well, if the Loki tourney is any indication, I'm glad tanking is gone.
Maxed 2*s up until 600, 2* with one maxed 3* until 800, and then the usual suspects from 800 onwards.
I think I only did _one_ fight for less than 25, which is a first - getting through the 1* teams after tanking up to 400 took forever since they weren't worth anything, so this has been a lot faster.

Now I'm curious what teams I'll have in my starting nodes for the next tourney. If it's all 141s then I'll be majorly annoyed and might have to put a tank team in at one point, if it's maxed 85s again up until a reasonable amount of points then good riddance to tanking, it won't be missed.

over_clocked

Farewell, Ghast maneuver. By the way after we discuss our favourite dirty techniques here on the forum they get nerfed soon after that. E.g. we taught grael23 to tank for LRs, he had a week or more of amazing loot, then LR tokens got nerfed to oblivion. Then Ghast taught us all to tank our MMR while also making ISO. Tanking gets nerfed.
Not to mention how Venom healing in prologue was nerfed (that happened quite some time ago) after everyone and their dog stated how awesome it is for anyone without a Spidey.
Can't think of more examples but there are plenty more. The devs do follow the forums, but seemingly not the threads we'd like

Twysta

Tbh, I don't think devs should be trying to fix the exploits as much as trying to fix the reason why we need to use them in the first place.

That's just my 2 cents.

Bowgentle

Twysta wrote:

Tbh, I don't think devs should be trying to fix the exploits as much as trying to fix the reason why we need to use them in the first place.

That's just my 2 cents.

Yeah, but fixing the exploits instead of the root causes is so much _easier_.
After all, much time is needed to come up with more ways to implement scaling in a way that helps new players even more, while driving away even more vets. That's not so simple you know!

Unknown

The variation you see at the lower end is a matter of activity. While the people with high roster rise to the top, it still takes time for that to happen, and a guy with 141X3 has to play somebody going from 0 to 900. If there's relatively little activity then you'd see more of the 3X141 that do play happen to be at the lower points because they don't have other easy targets to beat up.

Even in the case of Ghast's strategy I'd argue that if you lose enough games from 900 to 100 that's like injecting about 3000 points into the system (the amount you lose reduces as you rating drops but your opponent still gets the full value for winning so losing 900 points adds considerably more than 900 points to the pool). Also, giving points to a weak player has a cascading effect on score. That is, suppose you lost to a guy with level 50 characters and gave him 100 points. This guy is now going to get hit by guy with level 85, and then those guys will have more points and get hit by guys with level 100, and so on. Even at the 900 rating level, there's still some extra points created from every game (e.g. winner gets 25 but loser only loses 23) so the more games played that's caused by you losing on purpose, the more points there is to harvest later. Note that if you gave a 3X141 player 100 points, about the only guys that will attack him is another 3X141 so the effect is not nearly as significant.

Spoit

Well, would the putting in a hood/OBW tank team help a bit then?

Unknown

locked wrote:

Farewell, Ghast maneuver. By the way after we discuss our favourite dirty techniques here on the forum they get nerfed soon after that. E.g. we taught grael23 to tank for LRs, he had a week or more of amazing loot, then LR tokens got nerfed to oblivion. Then Ghast taught us all to tank our MMR while also making ISO. Tanking gets nerfed.
Not to mention how Venom healing in prologue was nerfed (that happened quite some time ago) after everyone and their dog stated how awesome it is for anyone without a Spidey.
Can't think of more examples but there are plenty more. The devs do follow the forums, but seemingly not the threads we'd like

Gee, I wonder who likes to chat about them the most.

over_clocked

jozier wrote:

locked wrote:

Farewell, Ghast maneuver. By the way after we discuss our favourite dirty techniques here on the forum they get nerfed soon after that. E.g. we taught grael23 to tank for LRs, he had a week or more of amazing loot, then LR tokens got nerfed to oblivion. Then Ghast taught us all to tank our MMR while also making ISO. Tanking gets nerfed.
Not to mention how Venom healing in prologue was nerfed (that happened quite some time ago) after everyone and their dog stated how awesome it is for anyone without a Spidey.
Can't think of more examples but there are plenty more. The devs do follow the forums, but seemingly not the threads we'd like

Gee, I wonder who likes to chat about them the most.

Can't be that the almighty jozier actually relies on these broken techniques.

Unknown

I cannot claim credit for the tanking because I basically reverse-engineered it. Players who had no business in my MMR routinely whupped on me in weekly PVP and LRs back when I making the 1* to 2* transition and I am neurotic enough to remember that type of thing. These same players also showed up at the top of the leaderboards early and often. They were not cheating but they certainly were not fighting opponents with similar rosters. I got serious about placing first when I heard that they were introducing another 4* so I recently began playing with the system. After a lot of searching, the final product was just a synthesis of all the information scattered throughout the forums.

The only difference is that I shared the information once I figured it out. Previously, the exploit generated limitless ISO for a handful of people for a very long time. After sharing, it generated massive amounts of ISO for many, many people for a very short time. I miss the ISO but I do not regret the sunlight. If anything, the speedy fix suggests that the devs have had it in their power to fix this for a very long time.

morgh

I actually do not think that 'active' (ie - retreating) tanking lost it's effectiveness completely - it might have been weakened a bit by tying your opponnent pool to the amount of points you currently have, but it still allows you to stick to a given level range more, when you suicide 3 teams of 3 by retreating 4 times each...