Can we talk about 4* Rocket?

Hadronic

Alright, let me preface this by saying I don't usually sceam out for nerfs, but I truly feel that 4* Rocket is completely broken in the current meta. Let me explain

For context, I am a 4* player with 38 champed. I have 2 5* that I could champ, but I refuse to cause they aren't Panthos (Strange and Hawkeye for those that care)

This past week has illustrated it nicely to me. In the past my teams would change depending on the boost list, but that all changed after I champed Rocket and Gamora.

Boost List
Carol Danvers - Awesome
RedHulk - Awesome
Carnage - Awesome
X-23 - Awesome with Carnage/Thanos
Thanos - Awesome
Loki - Awesome with Carol
Sentry - Awesome with Carol

Seriously, this is like the best boost week I have ever seen. Tons of combo potential.

Who did I use this week? Rocket and Gamora + (Random Nobody, doesn't even matter)

I tried making teams using the boosted characters. They were fun, I won and all that, but each battle took twice as long as just using Rocket and Gamora. The current meta is all about speed, and Rocket and Gamora are simply faster than everybody, and as a result that makes them better than just about any combo you can create, even when they aren't boosted.

I feel that in PvE, anytime that you make a team that doesn't have Rocket and Gamora on it, you are choosing to nerf yourself. That's fine I guess, if you don't care about placement and just want to have fun, than by all means, nerf yourself and use other characters. If you want to compete though, you are forced to use Rocket and Gamora to keep up (Thanos too, but this isnt about him)

Gamora is perfectly fine. I would say she is very balanced character, I have no issues with her.

The problem is Rocket, specifically his yellow ability. It's a completely broken power (especially in PvE).

Now, if they were to nerf his yellow, he would become completely worthless and unusable since his Blue and Green powers are mediocre at best. I never use his blue, cause Gamora is always by his side and her blue is amazing. His green I find more annoying than helpful, so I tend to just not cast it.

The yellow is easily the most overpowered ability in the game. If it placed all the strikes and then removed Rocket from the game completely, I would still use him, that's how broken it is.

In PvP, things are a bit different. I usually just skip fighting against Rocket/Gamora because its guaranteed healthpacks used. The team is beatable, not saying I cant beat them. Just bring Thing, or Deadpool and you can hard counter Rocket, and with Medusa you can get free AP, and flip the strikes back in Rocket's face. Also, the AI has a tendency to match away there own tiles, so he is certainly better balanced on Defense.

On offense though, Rocket cannot be countered. Those strikes are guaranteed at the start, after which rocket could drop dead and I wouldnt really care. First turn cascade usually results in one sometimes 2 members of the other team dyeing before they even get a turn. Just skip people using Thing and Deadpool and walk your way up to 900 with barely any retaliations.

I have no idea how to fix this, like I said i am not a fan of nerfs. Nerfing his yellow would result in a character no one uses and I definitely don't want that. I like the idea of his yellow, starting with tiles is awesome, but they are entirely too strong. I shouldn't be able to cascade on the first turn and kill their hood/medusa before they even get a chance to do anything.

Again, its the current speed meta that really makes him a problem, instead of nerfing rocket, perhaps they should change the meta, but I dont exactly trust that D3 could do that without screwing up a ton of other things in the process.

How do others feel about 4* Rocket?

robertbah

I cannot wait to beat those team with my BSSM. The only thing he is OP to you is that you should try cl9 opponents. The initial strikes won’t be useful at all. 

firethorne

On the PvP side, I'm not a fan of nerfs when the option of introducing a counter is on the table.  And, basically all that would be needed is someone with a passive like Venom's Give and Take that would apply to strikes rather than protects.  

On the PvE side, the problem is there is just too much damn grind.  Yep, other teams can be fun, but people will gravitate to speed builds.  You could nerf Rocket (or Thanos), but that doesn't actually do anything to address the real problem that is causing people to use them.  For that, the devs would need to restructure their chart of time spent to reward won in a major upward quality of life improvement.  And, frankly, I have no belief they'd ever be generous enough to do that.

fmftint

If you have 38 champ 4s I'd assume one is Agent Coulson, HE/Coulson can take down virtually any team in game, champ your 5s

Hadronic

fmftint said:

If you have 38 champ 4s I'd assume one is Agent Coulson, HE/Coulson can take down virtually any team in game, champ your 5s

yes, I have coulson champed. I use that team, and you are correct, it can defeat just about anything. What's wrong with that team? It's slow. Every turn takes 2 minutes just to cast all your **** and watch it all resolve.

I feel that if I did champ my 5*, my goto team would just become Rocket, Gamora, 5*Strange. Doesn't solve the issue.

Daredevil217

Disclaimer: my Gamora sits at level 70 unused. 

You pretty much said it. Grocket has one really great ability and two mediocre ones. He’s fine as is. He does have a lot of strengths with that one ability, speed and being a defensive deterrent being the two main ones. He does not warrant a nerf though. Most character rankings have him lower than he should be (outside top ten). I have him at 6 behind Carol, Medusa, Bobby, Peggy and Rulk.  Definately meta defining and top tier but not broken. Take out a few strikes and it’s a wrap.

The real issue isn’t Rocket. You’re burying the lead. The issue is regardless of the game mode speed is the only thing that matters. So passives and AP accelerators will always be at a premium. This same thread has been made about Panthos at the 5* tier. “I HAVE to use the same two characters!!”

The real fix to this is coming for many of us with wins-based PVP. Half the game will no longer be predicated on speed alone and if the tests were any indication, I’ll see a greater variety of teams (I know for a fact I played a greater variety).

Hadronic

robertbah said:

I cannot wait to beat those team with my BSSM. The only thing he is OP to you is that you should try cl9 opponents. The initial strikes won’t be useful at all. 

I play CL9
He is extremely useful in every fight except the 5* essential node. One of the only times I don't use him and as a result, I enjoy fighting that node

vinsensual

Im trying scl9 for the first time and I only use rocket y groot for the easy nodes and any fight with Hood. I still think Im faster using rulk and switch for the essentials and st4rlord as a 3rd in the hard fights.

Borstock

I play in SCL9 and my highest 5* character is lvl 333. I have finished each PvE in the top 50 pretty easily and the only time I use Grocket is to burn through the first three easy missions (teamed with Thanos) or when he's boosted. Otherwise, I find them largely useless in PvE.

In PvP, he's useful, but he's probably on my C-team. The main annoyance is that he shows up a lot on opposing teams. But that's true of Carol and Medusa and Blade, too.

There are several characters I would place ahead of Grocket if we were to make a nerf list.

Hadronic

Borstock said:

I play in SCL9 and my highest 5* character is lvl 333. I have finished each PvE in the top 50 pretty easily and the only time I use Grocket is to burn through the first three easy missions (teamed with Thanos) or when he's boosted. Otherwise, I find them largely useless in PvE.

In PvP, he's useful, but he's probably on my C-team. The main annoyance is that he shows up a lot on opposing teams. But that's true of Carol and Medusa and Blade, too.

There are several characters I would place ahead of Grocket if we were to make a nerf list.

i dont think he needs a nerf, the speed meta does. Nerfing rocket's yellow would just make him a bum no one used. Rocket, and Thanos, just allow you to easily exploit the meta, which is why they get singled out i guess.

bluewolf

Around Dec/Jan, they'll be relegated to an under 1% chance of pulling his covers.  I say, consider yourself lucky to have a permanent speed advantage over anyone that can't get him covered over the next few months.

I would hope someone else comes into the meta by then.

Dormammu

Hello Gamora, Rocket, and Groot, welcome to the Flavor of the Month Club. You can have a seat right over there next to Carol and Blade, but make sure you don't sit in Carnage and Medusa's chairs.

BlackBoltRocks

fmftint said:

If you have 38 champ 4s I'd assume one is Agent Coulson, HE/Coulson can take down virtually any team in game, champ your 5s

First, you'd need to get 13 covers for a particular 5*.

Blindman13

Dormammu said:

Hello Gamora, Rocket, and Groot, welcome to the Flavor of the Month Club. You can have a seat right over there next to Carol and Blade, but make sure you don't sit in Carnage and Medusa's chairs.

The meeting will begin once club co-presidents Thanos & Black Panther get done demolishing their latest victims.

Hadronic

BlackBoltRocks said:

fmftint said:

If you have 38 champ 4s I'd assume one is Agent Coulson, HE/Coulson can take down virtually any team in game, champ your 5s

First, you'd need to get 13 covers for a particular 5*.

In his defense, I did state in the OP that I had 13 Hawkeye covers. His comment was directed at me specifically

LavaManLee

As others mentioned, 4RG really doesn't need a nerf.  It is specific to PVE and really requires you to also use Gamora or 4StarLord.  In PVP, that is a totally beatable team, no matter who the third character is.  I appreciate they gave us a character to speed through the "boring" rounds and let us go to the actual "thinking" rounds as soon as possible.  It's the PVE experience itself, not the character, that needs a retooling.

broll

I'm kinda confused by all the people claiming they are problem PvE only.  I usually lose to them in PvP and as such end up trying to avoid them, but once I get around 850 8 out of 10 teams are 4RG + G4mora + RNG

BoyWonder1914

broll said:

I'm kinda confused by all the people claiming they are problem PvE only.  I usually lose to them in PvP and as such end up trying to avoid them, but once I get around 850 8 out of 10 teams are 4RG + G4mora + RNG

Thing/Medusa/Riri turns them into puppies. Or XFDP's black passive at 5 will ensure that Gamora or RBG don't last too long. You just have to have the right people. 

I'm not really sure what makes RBG so different from everyone else that gives you a speed advantage. Hell, I made MUCH quicker work of the Kingpin nodes with C&D/C4rol. C&D produces black, and I don't touch them to bait Kingpin or Ock into matching them. 2 or 3 matches and the AOE did all the work. The speed meta will exist regardless of who they nerf, people will just find different ways. So at the end of the day these nerfs will hurt no one but the players. 

broll

BoyWonder1914 said:

broll said:

I'm kinda confused by all the people claiming they are problem PvE only.  I usually lose to them in PvP and as such end up trying to avoid them, but once I get around 850 8 out of 10 teams are 4RG + G4mora + RNG

Thing/Medusa/Riri turns them into puppies. Or XFDP's black passive at 5 will ensure that Gamora or RBG don't last too long. You just have to have the right people. 

I'm not really sure what makes RBG so different from everyone else that gives you a speed advantage. Hell, I made MUCH quicker work of the Kingpin nodes with C&D/C4rol. C&D produces black, and I don't touch them to bait Kingpin or Ock into matching them. 2 or 3 matches and the AOE did all the work. The speed meta will exist regardless of who they nerf, people will just find different ways. So at the end of the day these nerfs will hurt no one but the players. 

I don't have Thing. I've tried Medusa, but unless I bring +4 purple she's usually dead before I can launch per Purple.

I suspect a lot of the people who say this isn't a problem have really high level 4*s.  All my champs are bottom feeders, highest is around 290, most are 275 or below.

Magic

Rocket is fine. When fighting it with Medusa you don't wait to fire purple - you go aggressively after the strike tiles. When R&G are not boosted the addition of Gammora is actually hurting the team as she is far from great and when the tiles are gone R&G are usless as well.

Sure when R&G is boosted I use him on all teams. This week in PvE I prefer Carol and Rhulk.

To show it to OP in perspective - i have 1 5* champion and he is a must on all teams for speed reason. Since it's Strange you can relate to the situation. The strike tiles could be good and i might grab R&G when not boosted but usually along with a good boosted hero. Being able to fire Rhulk AOE gives me more.

With 1 5* champion the PvP is a problem (especially when Strange is not good in PvP). But Coulson-Hawkeye is one of two auto-skip combinations in the game for me. So what you have is top PvP pair ready to take you to 1200 and beyond and also top3 PvE hero in 5trange.

But when you go 5* there is no turning back. That I can confirm.

BoyWonder1914

The level of your champs doesn't really matter as much as how well you leverage your counters. If you don't have the right people now, you'll get there eventually, it's not going to be a "problem" forever. Especially as someone who's already well into 4-star territory. Thing and XFDP definitely aren't the only ways.