wereotter said:Pretty sure this isn't included on purpose.Don't worry about if people can beat your deck, and just concern yourself if you can beat other people's. This is also why you can't edit event decks when your nodes are empty. They don't want us trolling other players and making the game harder.
This is spot on.
Speaking from experience when I used to play Mobsters years ago. Your Wins and Losses record became the bar by which each player measured themselves against others. Mobs (Coalitions) would use this as a way to see if you were good enough to join their band and these same people would troll other top players from other mobs to simply destroy their win loss record by throwing them into a scrolling hit list. There were only two ways a person could be tossed onto the list which required a "link.". 1. When being attacked a notice would appear and you can use that "link" to attack back. Mobs would often have their strongest player make some hits then have their weaker members attack to clear the list of notices removing that bigger players "link." 2. Doing something tinykitty like posting on a players wall would provide a permanent link to be continually attacked from and be constantly thrown up on the hitlist which kept that player perpetually in the hospital and required points to heal to even play. Anyways, this system created a toxic environment for players and a extreme sense of elitism and bullying. I don't recommend this concept at all for MTGPQ. I get the appeal about seeing how well the AI plays your build, but there are players who will use and abuse this as a way to create troll builds making the game less fun to play for all.
Gunmix25 said: wereotter said:Pretty sure this isn't included on purpose.Don't worry about if people can beat your deck, and just concern yourself if you can beat other people's. This is also why you can't edit event decks when your nodes are empty. They don't want us trolling other players and making the game harder.This is spot on. Speaking from experience when I used to play Mobsters years ago. Your Wins and Losses record became the bar by which each player measured themselves against others. Mobs (Coalitions) would use this as a way to see if you were good enough to join their band and these same people would troll other top players from other mobs to simply destroy their win loss record by throwing them into a scrolling hit list. There were only two ways a person could be tossed onto the list which required a "link.". 1. When being attacked a notice would appear and you can use that "link" to attack back. Mobs would often have their strongest player make some hits then have their weaker members attack to clear the list of notices removing that bigger players "link." 2. Doing something tinykitty like posting on a players wall would provide a permanent link to be continually attacked from and be constantly thrown up on the hitlist which kept that player perpetually in the hospital and required points to heal to even play. Anyways, this system created a toxic environment for players and a extreme sense of elitism and bullying. I don't recommend this concept at all for MTGPQ. I get the appeal about seeing how well the AI plays your build, but there are players who will use and abuse this as a way to create troll builds making the game less fun to play for all.
I definitely agree a model like you are describing would be a bad thing. However, there are a few reasons this wouldn't happen in PQ.
1. it's much more difficult to have the AI pilot our decks in a decent manner. My white/red Nahiri deck probably takes down people from time, but it also probably takes 6 turns to hard cast Emrakul instead of casting deploy. The AI even stalled our on original Baral loop decks because it couldn't discard.
2. You can't target individual players. You could just as easily troll your own coalition.
3. Everyone knows creatureless decks would be great troll decks in HoR, but not that many people run them. They simply don't care enough to make it worth it. Tie breakers are fixed and frankly the prizes aren't worth playing for.
ElfNeedsFood said: There are specific tournaments in Marvel Puzzle Quest where you lose some rank points when you are defeated and gain some when the AI wins with your team. You can’t exactly see win and loss rates of others, which would alleviate some of the concerns people have mentioned here. Gains and losses are much greater from the games you steer than what the game steers.
wereotter said:Except there are no events in this version of the game that operate that way. So no reason to know or care how well the AI pilots your deck.
babar3355 said: I definitely agree a model like you are describing would be a bad thing. However, there are a few reasons this wouldn't happen in PQ.1. it's much more difficult to have the AI pilot our decks in a decent manner. My white/red Nahiri deck probably takes down people from time, but it also probably takes 6 turns to hard cast Emrakul instead of casting deploy. The AI even stalled our on original Baral loop decks because it couldn't discard.2. You can't target individual players. You could just as easily troll your own coalition.3. Everyone knows creatureless decks would be great troll decks in HoR, but not that many people run them. They simply don't care enough to make it worth it. Tie breakers are fixed and frankly the prizes aren't worth playing for.
1. It is difficult, not impossible and many players are quite clever in manipulating the AI with a build if they keep in mind its list of priorities in what it casts. Especially when it comes to looping builds. Baral would stall....eventually. but even you know how bad facing Baral was. even if and when it did stall... the build often left you with nothing to play or use in a turn; wash and repeat. So while difficult, we all know that a fully functioning AI operated build can wreck havoc. There are numerous threads in here covering that fact, many include you arguing that this was bad too, no?
2. Target players. Good point, but honestly would this really even deter players who simply are toxic gamers by nature? Highly doubt it.
3. If we didn't care... we wouldn't be playing. Seems that we do and trolling to increase one's AI win loss count would only detract from the game. Look at this way, if you can't see how well your AI build is doing... you're far less likely to try making anything that will troll others in an event. If one could see their win loss, I can bet that you would see more... players enjoy various facets of every game... for some it's the thrill of making a build that works, and for some it's the thrill of knowing you ruined someone's chances because it is funny and to them that's fun; All the more power to them. That scenario has existed for ages in many games.
While under the present game format I understand this kind of issue is more difficult to put into play, but it isn't impossible and giving fuel to increase the frequency would be a very bad idea
wereotter said: .We've already seen enough trolling of people's matches before event deck slots were a thing to know why this is a bad idea, and why the players of this game can't be trusted to not make this game a toxic piece of garbage if we did have access to this feature.
Ohboy said: Trolling is fine.Just let go of the idea that you're supposed to get those bonus objectives risk free.The fact that there's this mentality might even be an indicator that there isn't enough risk of losing right now, and if trolling achieves this, we should be OK with that
If this tool gets introduced, and I start running into grief decks, I'll stop playing.
Kinesia said: I really really hate the "2 or more wolves", "2 or less creatures" one... I can do it, but it's almost impossible for _basic_ Nissa and the 2 or less creatures goes way against greens only strength and, in this, their only real path... In paper Green has more options, but the reduction to 3 stacks and creature stacking homogenises greens strategy and removes a lot from them.Most of you keep thinking only from an endgame perspective but beginners need to be able to play in these events too and they need to be able to see a path, need to think they have a chance...So the objectives need to be doable with the 5 basic planeswalkers and NO mythics. Not easy, not at all, but doable.I personally want, for each event, 1 fixed 2ndary objective (for the feel of that event) and 1 random one for each node, keep the current ones in the roster but add a bunch of others too.