Why are people pushing past 4000 points in a single versus event?

2

Comments

  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    edited September 2017
    Rodolfo78 said:hu
    Hendross said:
    Tony Foot said:
    Competitive spirit

    //Removed Inappropriate Content -Brigby
    You mean; front-run, inject points, individual rank, alliance rank, baking, and good natured competition.  Some of these are the nicest, most grounded people I've met online.  You should be thanking them due to trickle down.
    What does front-run mean?  What is baking?  It seems like a lot of work to hit 4k.  Do points stay really high after like 1500? Like, if i run 5 stars, can I keep hitting people for hours and nobody hits me and my gains are all 50 points?  I know I get to like 800 and get hit a bunch and all my battles are worth 30 points.  Are these people cheating?

    Player A gets a really high score early in an event, and shields. They then communicate with Player B outside the game about when exactly they're going to unshield; player B can then queue a high-value player A right when their shield is (very briefly) down. Player B waits to hit player A until the shield is back up; player B gains many points, player A loses none. Player B returns the favor for player A.

    Players used to be able to do this with extremely low level teams (loaner and two level 1s), beating other such teams with coordinated shield hops. These teams were referred to as "cupcakes". Devs changed the matchmaking such that a defensive team has to be more serious now, so you'll sometimes come across a 75-point team consisting of loaner/champ 3*/champ 5*; these used to be called "grills", but per Jarvind this is now called "whipping out a beefsnake". Anyone that takes advantage is "eating a beefsnake".

    Eating beefsnakes is not illegal, though many argue it's not how the game was meant to be played.
    That sounds like an exploit, using 1 stars to get 75 points.  I am not surprised they got rid of it.  It does sound like, from what you say, people are still gaming the system.  Outside communication?  What does that mean?  This sounds like outright cheating, or at the very least exploiting/gaming the system.
  • Rodolfo78
    Rodolfo78 Posts: 70 Match Maker
    Welcome to the oldest, saddest controversy on these here forums.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 4,910 Chairperson of the Boards
    Rodolfo78 said:hu
    Hendross said:
    Tony Foot said:
    Competitive spirit

    //Removed Inappropriate Content -Brigby
    You mean; front-run, inject points, individual rank, alliance rank, baking, and good natured competition.  Some of these are the nicest, most grounded people I've met online.  You should be thanking them due to trickle down.
    What does front-run mean?  What is baking?  It seems like a lot of work to hit 4k.  Do points stay really high after like 1500? Like, if i run 5 stars, can I keep hitting people for hours and nobody hits me and my gains are all 50 points?  I know I get to like 800 and get hit a bunch and all my battles are worth 30 points.  Are these people cheating?

    Player A gets a really high score early in an event, and shields. They then communicate with Player B outside the game about when exactly they're going to unshield; player B can then queue a high-value player A right when their shield is (very briefly) down. Player B waits to hit player A until the shield is back up; player B gains many points, player A loses none. Player B returns the favor for player A.

    Players used to be able to do this with extremely low level teams (loaner and two level 1s), beating other such teams with coordinated shield hops. These teams were referred to as "cupcakes". Devs changed the matchmaking such that a defensive team has to be more serious now, so you'll sometimes come across a 75-point team consisting of loaner/champ 3*/champ 5*; these used to be called "grills", but per Jarvind this is now called "whipping out a beefsnake". Anyone that takes advantage is "eating a beefsnake".

    Eating beefsnakes is not illegal, though many argue it's not how the game was meant to be played.
    That sounds like an exploit, using 1 stars to get 75 points.  I am not surprised they got rid of it.  It does sound like, from what you say, people are still gaming the system.  Outside communication?  What does that mean?  This sounds like outright cheating, or at the very least exploiting/gaming the system.
    Just to be clear, the outside application is Line.  Mostly it was turned to because there is no in game chat other than the meager alliance chat function.  I assume that coordination followed (?).
  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    edited September 2017
    Interesting.  So what are there like 100 people on Line or something that all cheat together?  It can't be a very big group.  How does everyone else get so high?  I've tried randomly joining public alliances and I never see anyone so high. Maybe they're in private ones?  How do you get in those?  I thought those were guys that knew each other for real. It's just too hard and it's really disheartening, especially since I spend about $300 a day on roster stuff. 
  • Orion
    Orion Posts: 1,295 Chairperson of the Boards
    Interesting.  So what are there like 100 people on Line or something that all cheat together?  It can't be a very big group.  How does everyone else get so high?  I've tried randomly joining public alliances and I never see anyone so high. Maybe they're in private ones?  How do you get in those?  I thought those were guys that knew each other for real. It's just too hard and it's really disheartening, especially since I spend about $300 a day on roster stuff. 
    Really?  You don't know how to get into a private alliance?  There's an entire section of this forum dedicated to joining a top alliance.  The main reason I joined this forum is because I outgrew my public alliance and wanted in a better one.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 739 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2017

    But, don't you think there is still some correlation?  Some said they dont want to do 40 matches in a win based system,  but if you hit 3000 on 75 point matches....
    Correlation between ...

    A relatively large group, those who are trying to minimize their time spent in and achieving certain progression rewards (thus complaining about a change that doubles time spent for 2nd highest prog and abducts the highest prog), and ....

    A much smaller group, those who are willing to invest a great deal of time in pursuit of maximizing their high scores.

    ?

    Precisely zero correlation.
    Correlation between them thinking that 40 wins is a respectable number of wins to set the bar at.  I was talking about the devs in a broad sense, not players (see the next part of my post, that you cut out)

    What i meant in my head and what i meant when i typed may have not been that clear lol
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    @Spudgutter

    My problem is not placement rewards, but progression rewards. I am fine with the top 25 my 9xx points generally guarantees me. Sometimes I swing the extra few matches to hit 12xx. I don't have the time in my schedule to shoot for t5 and I don't have the time in my schedule to consistently earn the 4* cover at 40 wins in win based. 900 in score based, absolutely because I can do it so much faster. I do benefit from the "trickle down" effect and I'm not coordinating with anyone for my scores. I've just perfected my solo methods over the course of 6-8 seasons.
  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    Ok ok you got me.  I have heard all about the rooms.  I just figured maybe some newer guys hadn't and wouldn't want to ask.   Not trolling. On the other hand it is true that nobody ever invites me to rooms.  It is also true that the whole benevolent trickle down nonsense is just that - nonsense. If that were the case, why can't I get an invite?  Also, why do I get hit 4,000 times every pvp while running 5 stars?  That's not helpful to me at all.  That's just rude.
  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    if you want an invite, get a LINE account. you can get invited. 
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 4,910 Chairperson of the Boards
    Also, why do I get hit 4,000 times every pvp while running 5 stars?  That's not helpful to me at all.  That's just rude.
    I don't know what level your 5's are, but the game's MMR matches you to equal roster strength opponents in PVP.  As you might imagine, the better your roster, the smaller the pool of similar rosters you see and can see you.  The vast majority of people aren't that intensely into the game, to reach the point of champed 5's.  It's basically a PVP feeding frenzy once you have champed 5's since every other 5* roster wants to climb and has limited visible targets, of which you are one.


  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    I do not think that is true.  I see many different teams in pvp.  Sure they're all 5 stars but some are phoenix, some are old man logan, some are thanos or black bolt.  It's a big variety.  Why would everyone hit just me?  Is it part of the system of collusion going on?
  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I do not think that is true.  I see many different teams in pvp.  Sure they're all 5 stars but some are phoenix, some are old man logan, some are thanos or black bolt.  It's a big variety.  Why would everyone hit just me?  Is it part of the system of collusion going on?
    The horde hits everyone. you are definitely not the only one. 

    if you want to go down to the specifics, there's many things to look at. 

    Which shard do you usually play in?
    Which teams do you climb with?
    At what score do you usually float?
    When do you usually you push to shield? (ie how many hours remaining in pvp)
    When you shield hop, how many games did you do?
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    @A_Wise_Man

    Got called out for trolling and found a successful new troll in the same thread..... Very good job sir!!!!!
  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    atomzed said:
    I do not think that is true.  I see many different teams in pvp.  Sure they're all 5 stars but some are phoenix, some are old man logan, some are thanos or black bolt.  It's a big variety.  Why would everyone hit just me?  Is it part of the system of collusion going on?
    The horde hits everyone. you are definitely not the only one. 

    if you want to go down to the specifics, there's many things to look at. 

    Which shard do you usually play in?
    The one that ends at 5 o clock central time. 
    Which teams do you climb with?
    Thanos and Hawkeye
    At what score do you usually float?
    I think this means leave my account but don't shield or youd say shield.  I dont know, 500?
    When do you usually you push to shield? (ie how many hours remaining in pvp)
    Whenever I can get to 900.  Usually last 8 or 3 hours, I dont like using hero points.
    When you shield hop, how many games did you do?
    Like drop shield then re-shield?  Like 4 or 5 if i get lucky enough to break 1000 points.  But I usually take hits though. My 5 stars are level 420 and 405.

  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    Milk Jugz said:
    @A_Wise_Man

    Got called out for trolling and found a successful new troll in the same thread..... Very good job sir!!!!!

    Still not seeing where I was trolling, just feigning ignorance for the sake of the discussion on the first bit.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 739 Critical Contributor
    Milk Jugz said:
    @Spudgutter

    My problem is not placement rewards, but progression rewards. I am fine with the top 25 my 9xx points generally guarantees me. Sometimes I swing the extra few matches to hit 12xx. I don't have the time in my schedule to shoot for t5 and I don't have the time in my schedule to consistently earn the 4* cover at 40 wins in win based. 900 in score based, absolutely because I can do it so much faster. I do benefit from the "trickle down" effect and I'm not coordinating with anyone for my scores. I've just perfected my solo methods over the course of 6-8 seasons.
    Well aware of your stance lol, that's why i mentened placement.  I dont want to go back through the dozen or so pages, but it felt like it was mentioned at least a couple of times.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2017
    Milk Jugz said:
    @Spudgutter

    My problem is not placement rewards, but progression rewards. I am fine with the top 25 my 9xx points generally guarantees me. Sometimes I swing the extra few matches to hit 12xx. I don't have the time in my schedule to shoot for t5 and I don't have the time in my schedule to consistently earn the 4* cover at 40 wins in win based. 900 in score based, absolutely because I can do it so much faster. I do benefit from the "trickle down" effect and I'm not coordinating with anyone for my scores. I've just perfected my solo methods over the course of 6-8 seasons.
    Well aware of your stance lol, that's why i mentened placement.  I dont want to go back through the dozen or so pages, but it felt like it was mentioned at least a couple of times.
    I think it was the CP leaving progression and entering placement more than placing itself. But I might be wrong
  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    atomzed said:
    I do not think that is true.  I see many different teams in pvp.  Sure they're all 5 stars but some are phoenix, some are old man logan, some are thanos or black bolt.  It's a big variety.  Why would everyone hit just me?  Is it part of the system of collusion going on?
    The horde hits everyone. you are definitely not the only one. 

    if you want to go down to the specifics, there's many things to look at. 

    Which shard do you usually play in?
    The one that ends at 5 o clock central time. 
    Which teams do you climb with?
    Thanos and Hawkeye
    At what score do you usually float?
    I think this means leave my account but don't shield or youd say shield.  I dont know, 500?
    When do you usually you push to shield? (ie how many hours remaining in pvp)
    Whenever I can get to 900.  Usually last 8 or 3 hours, I dont like using hero points.
    When you shield hop, how many games did you do?
    Like drop shield then re-shield?  Like 4 or 5 if i get lucky enough to break 1000 points.  But I usually take hits though. My 5 stars are level 420 and 405.

    Thanks for the reply! Now i know why you found yourself hit a lot. 

    First, you only climb in the last 3 or 8 hours. This is the most difficult period for 2 reasons. One, there are many people who wish to conserve HP (like you) and will climb in this period. Which means many people out there trying to find good targets. Second, those who have chalked out huge points (known as forerunners) will not stay out for long during this period. Hence you don't find good juicy targets. 

    what it means is that the last few hours are where the zombie hoards are the fiercest (with you being one of the zombie) vying for points. Those who can survive are determined purely by roster strength. Even for me, with champ 5*s, i tried not to climb during this period. 

    Another reason is your roster. your highest level is Thanos and HE, which are good characters but less synergy. And they are not champed. As a 5* player, your roster is comparatively easier than Panthos i see. All 5* players, without a doubt, will hit your team if you score high enough. 

    My advice is 1) climb earlier, say within the 24 hr mark. you find your climb relatively easier. you can also space them apart (ie don't need to do in 1 seating). float at 500+ points, line up huge targets with 75 points each, hit them for max points and repeat. (2) pray for good luck in getting that final few covers for HE and thanos so you can champ them. 

    good luck!
  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,609 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2017
    zombies, and beefsnakes and points oh my!

    As a part-time zombie who rides the zombie hoards to then reach the beefsnake parade I must say it's all about timing and roster strength. LINE is helpful in this regard but having a good idea about when the beefsnakes march is key if you are aiming for high points and/or placement.

    Btw all this zombie talk makes me hope that they do a Return of the Living Deadpool PvP special event for Halloween:



    *Whispers* Yes, you are one of us. How many points you got? Mmmmm....points....


    Anywhoo, the trickle down argument has become less legitimate with the death of cupsnakes.  I think with the recent changes and tests, it's become clear that the devs are trying to balance things out for both vets and newer players and that we will inevitably get the win progression system implemented in some form.

    I, of course, would prefer more drastic changes since the current "competitive" model at the higher tiers has less to do with actual skill than with time and resource expenditure and out-of-game communication. But hey, I still have fun doing my zombie shuffle so there's that。[¬º-°]¬ (゜△。*)ぁあ!