Does Kaladesh block rotate out of standard when Ixalan is released?

Ohboy

Are you ok dude? 

Emanon2000

Me?  I'm awesome!

Some others around here have me questioning their well being.. lol!

Gilesclone

I won't miss Kaladesh. FiRF and EO have made me really bored with vehicles and energy. 

Grenade110

Gilesclone said:

I won't miss Kaladesh. FiRF and EO have made me really bored with vehicles and energy. 

Energy will still be around thanks to the KLD/AER Walkers. It wont be as prevalent but around it will be. Vehicles are in Ixalan so they will remain in standard post rotation of KLD block.

andrewvanmarle

Ohboy said:

I thought I was being sarcastic.

Granted I don't play much anymore, but when I do join my friends at the game shop, people are playing standard a lot of the time. 

Of course not! You,  more than anyone else,  know that sarcasm is a bad basis to build a healthy discussion on..... 

Kinesia

andrewvanmarle said:

Ohboy said:

I thought I was being sarcastic.

Granted I don't play much anymore, but when I do join my friends at the game shop, people are playing standard a lot of the time. 

Of course not! You,  more than anyone else,  know that sarcasm is a bad basis to build a healthy discussion on..... 

I am deeply offended that you find his sarcasm so much better than mine.

Mainloop25

andrewvanmarle said:Mainloop25 said:

That's assuming that we all agree that Standard should be larger than 2 blocks. Personally, I can't wait to see Kaladesh rotate out, even with a lot of useful cards exiting meaningful competition.  

Is that sentiment specifically regarding kaladesh?

Maybe. I'm glad that Soi's stupidly overpowered cards are gone from most competitive play as well.

If they were good enough to design well balanced sets, this talk of standard/legacy would be a moot point. 

Kinesia

Mainloop25 said:

andrewvanmarle said:Mainloop25 said:

That's assuming that we all agree that Standard should be larger than 2 blocks. Personally, I can't wait to see Kaladesh rotate out, even with a lot of useful cards exiting meaningful competition.  

Is that sentiment specifically regarding kaladesh?

Maybe. I'm glad that Soi's stupidly overpowered cards are gone from most competitive play as well.

If they were good enough to design well balanced sets, this talk of standard/legacy would be a moot point. 

It's not about "good enough", it's about not having the huge amount of testing and readjustment that Paper does before release. In this they really really need to be willing "bugfix" cards afterwards, there aren't the resources for the testing upfront probably so they need to fix things when they come up. And they _can_ since it's not fixed in print like paper.

Mainloop25

Yeah, maybe competent is a better word, but yeah you're right. They have the tools to rebalance cards as needed. They used to do this a lot. Yet, for some reason they stopped doing this once Soi came out, except in extreme cases like Baral. I don't know why, maybe it's hubris, lack of resources, or both, but it's to detriment of the game. 

Kinesia

I understand the problem, there are time restrictions with them getting knowledge of the paper set and having to adjust things. They probably get told the mechanics in reasonable time, but have to implement the actual cards quickly and there are a lot of things to adjust when porting some cards. It's not a problem that they get some stuff wrong, it's a problem that it doesn't get fixed.

The lack of rebalancing is probably down to resources but it's critical to the "life" of the game so it needs "some" priority. (Depends what else is going on!) But ignoring it completely is very bad.

Ohboy

No one's going to bring up the fact that the last 2 times they tried to rebalance something led to massive community backlash?

Might be a correlation there. 

andrewvanmarle

Ohboy said:

No one's going to bring up the fact that the last 2 times they tried to rebalance something led to massive community backlash?

Might be a correlation there. 

true, but specifically in the case of Baral, players allready flooded the board before he was sold that he was overpowered. they should have rebalanced him before selling him for cash. That was, in my opinion, the greatest source of the backlash

and they also -have- overnerfed cards bringing it from superduper to bleh ( like the sage werewolf)

andrewvanmarle

Kinesia said:

andrewvanmarle said:

Ohboy said:

I thought I was being sarcastic.

Granted I don't play much anymore, but when I do join my friends at the game shop, people are playing standard a lot of the time. 

Of course not! You,  more than anyone else,  know that sarcasm is a bad basis to build a healthy discussion on..... 

I am deeply offended that you find his sarcasm so much better than mine.

I didnt see your sarcasm ;-)

wereotter

Ohboy said:

No one's going to bring up the fact that the last 2 times they tried to rebalance something led to massive community backlash?

Might be a correlation there. 

The only rebalancing I recall being a big issue was Baral, and that was amplified by the fact that he was a paid mythic. He was no more broken than cycling is now except that Greg could use him. Honestly I kind of like him better now than before since he makes it easier to cast big spells.

Though there are still other equally toxic legacy cards that could be addressed now that they can't be used in most events, Olivia could be tamed down, and there's no reason for Mirrorpool to have 10 shields as a support, but these things can wait until the game is actually doing anything again.

Ohboy

Kiora was a big one. Bigger than baral I think. 

wereotter

Ah, I think that change predates my entry to the game.

babar3355

Well selling overpowered cards/PW's and then nerfing them is justifiably enraging. 

Regardless, you have to have a balanced game... so perhaps some play testing or quality control?  Everyone who bought Baral had a semi-infinite deck built within the hour.

Kinesia

andrewvanmarle said:

Kinesia said:

andrewvanmarle said:

Ohboy said:

I thought I was being sarcastic.

Granted I don't play much anymore, but when I do join my friends at the game shop, people are playing standard a lot of the time. 

Of course not! You,  more than anyone else,  know that sarcasm is a bad basis to build a healthy discussion on..... 

I am deeply offended that you find his sarcasm so much better than mine.

I didnt see your sarcasm ;-)

Oh, like you're the arbiter of sarcasm! Like you have some kind of sarcasm detecting machine or something!

Grin.

Kinesia

wereotter said:

Ohboy said:

No one's going to bring up the fact that the last 2 times they tried to rebalance something led to massive community backlash?

Might be a correlation there. 

The only rebalancing I recall being a big issue was Baral, and that was amplified by the fact that he was a paid mythic. He was no more broken than cycling is now except that Greg could use him. Honestly I kind of like him better now than before since he makes it easier to cast big spells.

Though there are still other equally toxic legacy cards that could be addressed now that they can't be used in most events, Olivia could be tamed down, and there's no reason for Mirrorpool to have 10 shields as a support, but these things can wait until the game is actually doing anything again.

I find some of the others worse than Olivia, she's just more common.

But Mirrorpool doesn't hurt anything having 10 shields. It's about the difference between playing it and playing against it... It's far far worse to play it and have it do nothing then it is to have to play against it. Having cards "fizzle" is worse than having a big creature to overcome, we already have tools in place for that.

ElfNeedsFood

They could look at rebalancing at the other end of the spectrum too. Look at how often various cards get used and make things like River Hoopoe cheaper to play post release when they realize it is never used at all.