Power Gem Season Updates (9/18/17)

Qubort

Roland113 said:

Qubort said:

nick_chicane said:

Orion said:

nick_chicane said:

Phillipes said:

Terrible thing is that I don´t like "normal" PVP. But this new PVP is even worse.

Is it? I've already racked up 31 wins, just playing every now and again inbetween PVE clears. This is miles better than having to worry about points all the time. 

So you obviously don't care about the placement CP.  For those of us that do care, this version of PvP is terrible.

Plenty of CP to be earned in the progression rewards and elsewhere. Its really not that big of a deal. You come away with more rewards this way than previously. 

The CP taken out of progression wasn't added else where so it is a big deal. Over the course of a season that adds up to a lot. This new method takes the rarest commodity in the game and makes it rarer.

Wait, I thought ISO was the rarest commodity?

It takes less than a week to get enough ISO to champ a 4 star. It takes a lot longer to get enough CP to fully cover a 4 star.

Ruinate

nick_chicane said:

Orion said:

nick_chicane said:

Phillipes said:

Terrible thing is that I don´t like "normal" PVP. But this new PVP is even worse.

Is it? I've already racked up 31 wins, just playing every now and again inbetween PVE clears. This is miles better than having to worry about points all the time. 

So you obviously don't care about the placement CP.  For those of us that do care, this version of PvP is terrible.

Plenty of CP to be earned in the progression rewards and elsewhere. Its really not that big of a deal. You come away with more rewards this way than previously. 

Is this real life?

broll

Roland113 said:

Qubort said:

nick_chicane said:

Orion said:

nick_chicane said:

Phillipes said:

Terrible thing is that I don´t like "normal" PVP. But this new PVP is even worse.

Is it? I've already racked up 31 wins, just playing every now and again inbetween PVE clears. This is miles better than having to worry about points all the time. 

So you obviously don't care about the placement CP.  For those of us that do care, this version of PvP is terrible.

Plenty of CP to be earned in the progression rewards and elsewhere. Its really not that big of a deal. You come away with more rewards this way than previously. 

The CP taken out of progression wasn't added else where so it is a big deal. Over the course of a season that adds up to a lot. This new method takes the rarest commodity in the game and makes it rarer.

Wait, I thought ISO was the rarest commodity?

ISO isn't rare at all, in fact it's the most common reward.  It is however the most undervauled by the Devs and arguably the most sought after by the players (especially the more advanced their roster is).

RemoDestroyer

broll said:

Roland113 said:

Qubort said:

nick_chicane said:

Orion said:

nick_chicane said:

Phillipes said:

Terrible thing is that I don´t like "normal" PVP. But this new PVP is even worse.

Is it? I've already racked up 31 wins, just playing every now and again inbetween PVE clears. This is miles better than having to worry about points all the time. 

So you obviously don't care about the placement CP.  For those of us that do care, this version of PvP is terrible.

Plenty of CP to be earned in the progression rewards and elsewhere. Its really not that big of a deal. You come away with more rewards this way than previously. 

The CP taken out of progression wasn't added else where so it is a big deal. Over the course of a season that adds up to a lot. This new method takes the rarest commodity in the game and makes it rarer.

Wait, I thought ISO was the rarest commodity?

ISO isn't rare at all, in fact it's the most common reward.  It is however the most undervauled by the Devs and arguably the most sought after by the players (especially the more advanced their roster is).

Based on the cost of a Mother Lode i would have thought the devs over valued iso.

danielrandkai

nick_chicane said:

Phillipes said:

Terrible thing is that I don´t like "normal" PVP. But this new PVP is even worse.

Is it? I've already racked up 31 wins, just playing every now and again inbetween PVE clears. This is miles better than having to worry about points all the time. 

Indeed. This is so much better than the current system. Not having to REALLY worry about taking point losses is a beautiful thing, and I can use teams I never would have bothered because I can queue lower point teams that are weaker.

shardwick

I'm at 42 wins and still have a day to go in this event. Can't play too much though since I'm sitting on 13 health packs and want to conserve them for my last run for decent placement tomorrow.

Killians8

It's looking the final version of PvP will include defense wins in your overall total because you've probably noticed there is a counter for additional wins as well as the total +/- [points] when the log of attacks pops up.

They don't currently count in the tests, but why would they code it in if they weren't going to eventually use it. That would make the 40 wins for the 4* slightly less painful as a good defense team can help you get there by doing nothing. 

Would love to see 35 wins instead of 40 as you're not getting a ton of defense wins usually. I probably average 4-5 in a standard PvP though I haven't run the numbers.

Jaedenkaal

Killians8 said:

It's looking the final version of PvP will include defense wins in your overall total because you've probably noticed there is a counter for additional wins as well as the total +/- [points] when the log of attacks pops up.

They don't currently count in the tests, but why would they code it in if they weren't going to eventually use it. That would make the 40 wins for the 4* slightly less painful as a good defense team can help you get there by doing nothing. 

Would love to see 35 wins instead of 40 as you're not getting a ton of defense wins usually. I probably average 4-5 in a standard PvP though I haven't run the numbers.

As long as they can somehow tell the difference between a real win and a retreat/disconnect, sure.

shardwick

If they allowed defensive wins they'd probably limit it to so many in an event/season to prevent people from abusing it. Maybe a max of 3-5 and then after that any more would not count towards your win total.

Killians8

You guys make some good points about having to either limit abuse or have some code to make sure it is a legitimate defense and not some alliance-mate throwing you losses. Perhaps a minimum time/turns played component to help discern legitimacy.

Edit: They probably already have some mechanic in there to help otherwise we'd already heard about the abuse due to it already being advantageous to do so in the current system.

As someone who doesn't cheat it's easy for me to forget how others do because it's not my first thought.

shardwick

Honestly they might not even do something like that to determine how legitimate a win is because I could see people fighting alliance members with their throw away characters like champed 3s or weaker 4s that they don't use to give a buddy a legitimate defensive win. They kill off Psylocke, Beast and Sentry then switch to three other characters that they don't use. So people are going to game the system if they implement defensive wins so might as well just say "Everyone gets 3-5 defensive wins max per event."

jamesh

Killians8 said:

You guys make some good points about having to either limit abuse or have some code to make sure it is a legitimate defense and not some alliance-mate throwing you losses. Perhaps a minimum time/turns played component to help discern legitimacy.

Edit: They probably already have some mechanic in there to help otherwise we'd already heard about the abuse due to it already being advantageous to do so in the current system.

As someone who doesn't cheat it's easy for me to forget how others do because it's not my first thought.

You used to gain a lot more points from a defensive win: reducing those points was the mechanic they used to avoid abuse under the old system.

Setting things up so that defensive wins from anyone but alliance mates count as a win would be just as open to abuse: in the simplest form, two alliances could come to an agreement to retreat at each other to inflate their win count.  Alternatively, you could use any of the many out-of-game communication channels to collaborate (Line, Discord, Reddit, these forums, etc).

As long as they're counting progression in terms of integer numbers of wins, a defensive win is going to round down to zero.

Starfury

Killians8 said:

It's looking the final version of PvP will include defense wins in your overall total because you've probably noticed there is a counter for additional wins as well as the total +/- [points] when the log of attacks pops up.

They don't currently count in the tests, but why would they code it in if they weren't going to eventually use it. That would make the 40 wins for the 4* slightly less painful as a good defense team can help you get there by doing nothing. 

Would love to see 35 wins instead of 40 as you're not getting a ton of defense wins usually. I probably average 4-5 in a standard PvP though I haven't run the numbers.

That notification was already in the first test, didn't do anything there either.

To me it looks more like they initially had them count, then noticed it was a stupid idea but couldn't be bothered to remove it even for the second test.

Vhailorx

Crowl said:

Phillipes said:

Terrible thing is that I don´t like "normal" PVP. But this new PVP is even worse.

While the numbers seem somewhat high for the rewards, there is one clear positive to this new pvp system in that you can actually pick up and play a game or two whenever you want as they all add to your progress, which isn't the case for most people in regular pvp and most definitely isn't the case for pve if you are playing even remotely optimally.

I think this is a poor argument.  Playing here and there does now offer additive progression, but it is still terrible for placement.  Good placement and progression now requires a grueling and very particular schedule.

So now mpq has a pve system where grinding out 40ish wins in matches of various difficulty levels will get you a 4* cover, but good placement and progression requires a grueling, very specific play schedule (4x clears inmediately each sub, 3x clears about 22 hours later, every single day).

And mpq also has a pvp system where grinding out 40ish wins in matches of various difficulty levels will get you a 4* cover, but good placement and progression requires a grueling, very specific play schedule (climb during the first 24 hours of an event, then shield hop repeatedly 2-3 times each 8 hours for the remaining 36 hours of the event; never let the shields drop).

Is demi also going to change ddq to offer a fixed 4* cover every day, if you grind out 30+ matches, but LTs and cp are only available for the top 10?

ZeiramMR

@Brigby What does the shortened season do for the S.H.I.E.L.D. Training PVP that runs for the season? Same progression rewards and goals as a normal-length season, or is it condensed, or even abridged?

I would hate to miss a Lockjaw progression just because of the short length.

Brigby

@ZeiramMR

Since the Power Gem Season will be only 4 events long, both the Season and SHIELD Simulator will have progression thresholds reduced to 40%

bluewolf

15 hours til slice 1

ZeiramMR

Brigby said:

@ZeiramMR

Since the Power Gem Season will be only 4 events long, both the Season and SHIELD Simulator will have progression thresholds reduced to 40%

@Brigby Thanks!

Crowl

Vhailorx said:

Crowl said:

Phillipes said:

Terrible thing is that I don´t like "normal" PVP. But this new PVP is even worse.

While the numbers seem somewhat high for the rewards, there is one clear positive to this new pvp system in that you can actually pick up and play a game or two whenever you want as they all add to your progress, which isn't the case for most people in regular pvp and most definitely isn't the case for pve if you are playing even remotely optimally.

I think this is a poor argument.  Playing here and there does now offer additive progression, but it is still terrible for placement.  Good placement and progression now requires a grueling and very particular schedule.

So now mpq has a pve system where grinding out 40ish wins in matches of various difficulty levels will get you a 4* cover, but good placement and progression requires a grueling, very specific play schedule (4x clears inmediately each sub, 3x clears about 22 hours later, every single day).

And mpq also has a pvp system where grinding out 40ish wins in matches of various difficulty levels will get you a 4* cover, but good placement and progression requires a grueling, very specific play schedule (climb during the first 24 hours of an event, then shield hop repeatedly 2-3 times each 8 hours for the remaining 36 hours of the event; never let the shields drop).

They are presumably making changes in an effort to make the mode more appealing to more of the playerbase, if it makes the top 1% have a marginally trickier time while making things generally better for everyone else, the devs are going to consider that a clear win as they are never going to please everyone.

As far as your claims about an increased amount of shielding etc. surely that isn't true, you won't really care if you get hit as it just means your win total is obtained in an easier manner and then you need a final climb if you are going for placement if you care about that part of the mode.

Jaedenkaal

Crowl said:

They are presumably making changes in an effort to make the mode more appealing to more of the playerbase, if it makes the top 1% have a marginally trickier time while making things generally better for everyone else, the devs are going to consider that a clear win as they are never going to please everyone.

If only this logic worked for tax reform too