The ever-growing mindless grind

Borstock

I would rather take a one hour drive with 5 turns than a two hour drive with four. 

But that's just me. I don't like being stuck in the car.

Warbringa

I agree with the OP but for me the combination of SCL scaling (moved down to SCL 7 with the change) plus champing Medusa and R&G 4* have saved me nearly 45 minutes per day in play time, which is more important to me.  The grinding is truly mindless in PvE at this point but I get just as good of rewards and if I want to challenge myself I dabble in a few PvP matches.  

OrionKannan

Zyrook said:

Starfury said:

I could also not use powers or deliberately match bad tiles.

That's not a challenge, it's me deliberately gimping myself. (and as a bonus getting less rewards for more effort)

Also, I know it's a mobile game and most have a certain degree of repetition. I'm complainig about the devs doubling down on that repetition.

You may have actually stumbled upon an interesting idea. What if the devs implemented challenges to PVE? Like, starting at the higher SCLs you get bonus rewards for completing nodes with selected under-powered teams. Either as an optional team you can take against existing nodes, similar to the Behemoth Burrito missions. or restricting them to just underpowered levels. It'd probably have to be for additional rewards, like a fat stack of ISO or HP, or maybe even CP or good tokens, unless they do something crazy like "Hey if you can beat this lvl250 team using only 2*s it counts as 4 clears."

Or they could go nutty with it and give intense challenges for gonzo rewards. Like, hey, beat this 1/1/1 250 Thanos with 2*s for a legend token.

I like this.  Devs could implement this as option side quests for certain/all nodes.  These don't have to be completed to clear the node,but extra rewards are given if conditions are met.
My thoughts:
- Win without generating any Strike, Attack, or Shield tiles.
- Win without stunning the opponent.
- Win in less/more than "X" turns. (could be fun trying to drag out one of the first 3 nodes         into 15 turns).
- Win without using any special abilities.
- Not using any championed toons.
- Not using 4* or 5* toons.

crackninja

OrionKannan said:

Zyrook said:

Starfury said:

I could also not use powers or deliberately match bad tiles.

That's not a challenge, it's me deliberately gimping myself. (and as a bonus getting less rewards for more effort)

Also, I know it's a mobile game and most have a certain degree of repetition. I'm complainig about the devs doubling down on that repetition.

You may have actually stumbled upon an interesting idea. What if the devs implemented challenges to PVE? Like, starting at the higher SCLs you get bonus rewards for completing nodes with selected under-powered teams. Either as an optional team you can take against existing nodes, similar to the Behemoth Burrito missions. or restricting them to just underpowered levels. It'd probably have to be for additional rewards, like a fat stack of ISO or HP, or maybe even CP or good tokens, unless they do something crazy like "Hey if you can beat this lvl250 team using only 2*s it counts as 4 clears."

Or they could go nutty with it and give intense challenges for gonzo rewards. Like, hey, beat this 1/1/1 250 Thanos with 2*s for a legend token.

I like this.  Devs could implement this as option side quests for certain/all nodes.  These don't have to be completed to clear the node,but extra rewards are given if conditions are met.
My thoughts:
- Win without generating any Strike, Attack, or Shield tiles.
- Win without stunning the opponent.
- Win in less/more than "X" turns. (could be fun trying to drag out one of the first 3 nodes         into 15 turns).
- Win without using any special abilities.
- Not using any championed toons.
- Not using 4* or 5* toons.

 I'm totally on board with this, but be a little more realistic about the rewards for accomplishing these tasks unless they are only available weekly.
Also, they would need to be kept separate from standard pve battles/clears, otherwise completing the tasks would be very detrimental to those fighting for placement.

ABaker84

How bout tag team wave matches. Start out with initial 3 characters, but you select one or two as reserve and can tag in if one of the main 3 get too beat up/no AP in desired color. Match could be 10 waves long. That could be your one long match. 

Or a cage match that didn't allow team ups or AoE damage attacks.

Or maybe a ladder match where your character can elbow drop from the top rope, stunning the target for the rest of the match

Or an MPQ-mania event where just before you get beat, a retired character comes out of nowhere and beats down every opponent.

I like this feed, there are some good ideas here

TeamStewie

And now we have 5 star essentials to make things even grindier

Starfury

TeamStewie said:

And now we have 5 star essentials to make things even grindier

Would've been an opportunity to replace the pointless easy missions with the 5* essential and make the node rewards at least equal to the three easy missions combined.

Wouldn't make the grind necessarily easier or faster, but slightly less braindead.

Calnexin

The 5* essentials aren't required for progression, at least.  You don't have to do them unless you're chasing placement.  You can probably do them instead of the easy missions, if you want.  They should be worth more points than the 4* essential, so doing it just once should make up for completely missing one easy node.

Kinda sucks for anyone in CL7-up who does chase placement but doesn't have all the 5*'s rostered.  They're basically screwed.

Vhailorx

So assuming the wins based progression becomes permanent: to get good placement and max progression rewards it will take

(1) a top 10 finish in pvp events (usually 2k+, occasionally less with some luck)
(2) 120 pvp wins a week
(3) a complete 2*, 3*, 4*, and 5* roster for essentials (preferrably with a champed thanos for fast grinding and hopping)
(4) a minimun of 420 pve matches per week (usually a bit more as most events have a few extra nodes)
(5) free time to play pve on an optimal schedule and shield hop as needed around the cool down schedule.

That seems like an awful lot to ask of players, especially since the rewards arent too much higher than they were on january 1, 2017.

I for one will not often be able to play that much and will probably choose to cut back my engagement with the game instead of continuing to invest in a game that clearly wants ALL of my free time.

Vhailorx

Aesth, sure some disengagement can help eith this problem.  But i dont feel like giving demi/d3 credit for player will power.  The game is designed to be heavily incentivize players to keep grinding.  The fact that some players can resist is not really to the devs/pubs' credit.

Also, playing to previous "get all the stuff" levels actually provides a lower reward level than itndid previously, so demi and d3 are not so subtlely telling all that playing everything is important. . .

Spudgutter

You might be onto something, sort of.  I wonder if they are slowly increasing the requirements on both sides of the game, to force people to choose one or the other.

ZootSax

Starfury said:

120 battles vs seed teams only might also work out to the same amount of time spent per PvP, but I sincerely hope no one would prefer it over today's system.

Depends on the boost list :-P

Astralgazer

Well, grinding is the name of the game. How many times do I have to fight that accursed King Orc in Borderlands 2 in order to get the Ogre assault rifle, just to complete my collection? How many times do I have to fight the same couple areas in Diablo just to complete my Sorcerer's set?

Grinding.It gets boring. You put the game away for a moment until the itch comes back and you start.... grinding again.

Beer40

aesthetocyst said:

Vhailorx said: ... to get good placement and max progression rewards it will take ....

Eh, only if you want to get all the things a the time.

I know, i know, its a very slippery slope from "merely dabbling" to "MPQ shut-in", but playing casually is possible.

Today i was turning over in my mind the idea of an ordered to do list for casual play. A recommended order of doing things over the course of a day, as you have time. If you have a busy day you dont touch the game at all. If home sick you might get to the end.

Just a little disengagement is needed. At least for me, remembering not to care if a cover expires is the key. Letting that go breaks the need to grind dat iso!

That's been a key for me to avoid burnout also. It works. To the people that can't let go every once in awhile, MPQ raises their glass to you, the target market.

Vhailorx

aesthetocyst said:

Willpower? Giving Demi credit? "Some" players can resist? None of that was in my post ... oh, I see, you see your self as a victim, being exploited by a predatory game publisher.

No, I don't give Demi/D3 credit for much of anything, other than securing a license and keeping this thing going. They didn't invent this model.

As for "player willpower", only a tiny sliver of the playerbase play this game obsessively, and fewer still play it obsessively over a long period. Something about those players predispose them to it, and their circumstances apparently enable/allow it. The game is a trap, a temptation, built on a model designed to exploit psychology. It's on the players to retain control.

As for what content and amount of play Demi is supporting, they are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Some players can play more and want more, some players can only play so much but feel pressured to play everything. Demi can only satisfy the former in ways that drive the latter to turn the screw on themselves.

If you're screwing yourself, that's not on Demi. If you're going to say publisher of video games, or the providers of products and services are responsible for the excesses of their customers ... well that's a much larger conversation. Especially in America, land of excess. Widen the definition of "addictive" and put the onus on providers, and the whole economy would be in question LOL

The game is structured in a way that it can be played in bite-sized chunks, in short bursts, periods of activity or inactivity. It's on you to pace yourself.

Really Aesth, you are going to make this a victimization discussion?  I expect better from you.

I didn't say much that you didnt say.  The game is designed as a "trap" (your word).  I am just irritated by that, and you have apparently reached a zen state of apathy about it.

JackTenrec

I'm giving up on the 5* required nodes in SCL8. I'll give it a go for the token and CP, but since this feature went live I've used more healthpacks just trying to get to 4 clears than I do for the entire remainder of each sub.