The ever-growing mindless grind

Starfury

PvE has seen two major changes in 2017: At first we got the increase from 4 clears to 5 clears for max progression. This meant time requirements (and to a lesser degree: difficulty) increased by about a third for a modest increase in rewards and was about as well received as one might expect.

Then, about a month and a half ago, we got SCL based difficulty. This meant people got a way to reduce difficulty (and with it time demands) as long as they are willing to accept lower rewards.

For 5* rosters the current limitation to SCL 8 means they're now breezing through PvE clears in under an hour and 4* rosters who drop down to SCL 7 have also seen their overall time requirements drop by a significant amount of time.

Now I'm not going to say that SCL based difficulty is a bad thing (I personally like it, and it's a far more intuitive system than roster based scaling ever was) but combined with the first change it means that compared to the beginning of the year, we're now playing more matches that are less interesting.

The best example for this are the 3 easy missions: Why in the world have I spent around 6 hours over the last 40 subs mindlessly tapping myself through almost 720 battles against level 35 or 23 enemies only to wait for the Grim Reaper to appear?

For me, while I now spend less time in PvE than in January, I feel far less engaged. In fact SCL 7 feels like I'm just going through the motions until I got the necessary number of clears because there's absolutely no challenge left. I'd rather fight 1 battle against level 400 enemies than 5 battles versus enemies from level 150-250. And SCL 8 feels like I'm throwing away another hour of my life for a pretty insignificant increase in rewards.


In PvP it's very likely that we'll soon get a change switching from point based progression to win based progression:
Here the new optimal strategy is going to be hitting as many weak targets as possible instead of a risk-reward based system trying to go over (generally) stronger teams who yield more points.

Just like with SCL based difficulty there are clear benefits of the new system (like the ability for anyone to reach max progression if he's willing to put in the time) but there's no denying the fact that this new system would be another step towards more but easier battles.

The additional time requirements 5 clears brought on made me stop chasing 900 points in the current PvP system and even with SCL based difficulty giving back some my the time, I never felt like putting it into another part of the game. And even more repetition in PvP certainly isn't going to change my mind.


tldr: It feels like the devs are replacing challenge with repetition.

Borstock

If you want a challenge, don't use the boosted characters. Use 3* characters. It is still there to be had.

This is a mobile game. Repetition has been part of it since the beginning. It is what it is. 

Starfury

Borstock said:

If you want a challenge, don't use the boosted characters. Use 3* characters. It is still there to be had.

This is a mobile game. Repetition has been part of it since the beginning. It is what it is. 

I could also not use powers or deliberately match bad tiles.

That's not a challenge, it's me deliberately gimping myself. (and as a bonus getting less rewards for more effort)

Also, I know it's a mobile game and most have a certain degree of repetition. I'm complainig about the devs doubling down on that repetition.

Zyrook

Starfury said:

I could also not use powers or deliberately match bad tiles.

That's not a challenge, it's me deliberately gimping myself. (and as a bonus getting less rewards for more effort)

Also, I know it's a mobile game and most have a certain degree of repetition. I'm complainig about the devs doubling down on that repetition.

You may have actually stumbled upon an interesting idea. What if the devs implemented challenges to PVE? Like, starting at the higher SCLs you get bonus rewards for completing nodes with selected under-powered teams. Either as an optional team you can take against existing nodes, similar to the Behemoth Burrito missions. or restricting them to just underpowered levels. It'd probably have to be for additional rewards, like a fat stack of ISO or HP, or maybe even CP or good tokens, unless they do something crazy like "Hey if you can beat this lvl250 team using only 2*s it counts as 4 clears."

Or they could go nutty with it and give intense challenges for gonzo rewards. Like, hey, beat this 1/1/1 250 Thanos with 2*s for a legend token.

Wonko33

edit: no comment

thedarkphoenix

It was mindless either way. It's just quicker now

carrion_pigeons

I just don't do it, usually.  Solves most of my problems with the game, it turns out.

Dotproduct

I'm one that would have rather they consolidated the first three Lv23 nodes into a single one with Lv 69 opponents.

vinsensual

Mindless Ones have too much HP and fighting them is such a grind!
Wait that's not what we're talking about here?

Richyyy

I tend to agree that the game's become more of a mindless grind in recent times. I think they've tried to 'address' that with characters like Thanos, Strange and Gr4cket which help speed up the easier nodes, but it's a poor way to fix anything - they make the easier nodes simpler without making anything more interesting or playable. There's not really a lot of 'Puzzle' left in MPQ.

Even though the rewards desperately need a rework, I look forward to the alliance events because they're a nice change to the format and sometimes require a bit more thought.

Wonko33

I think we are looking for design flaws in a system that is just not designed 

Avalancher

I absolutely love all the changes that you mentioned.

The game makes me much happier now.

I have 14 months and about $1000 invested, and the game keeps getting better all the time.

Thanks for your concern, but I disagree strongly with your negative opinions.

carrion_pigeons

aesthetocyst said:

Dotproduct said:

I'm one that would have rather they consolidated the first three Lv23 nodes into a single one with Lv 69 opponents.

So that's -20xp and 2 less sets of node rewards on every sub.

Unless you think this dev is gonna whip out a triple value trivial node .... like we're playing Scrabble LOL

I think the majority of people who really care about grinding xp have already gotten everything out of it that they can.  Most of the rest of players are casual enough that they don't bother with the grinding nonsense in the first place.

Dormammu

Oh, come on. Marvel Puzzle Quest isn't that grindy.

(Now, you'll have to excuse me. Slice 4 is about to end in the latest ISO Brotherhood sub and I have to go fight Moonstone, Bullseye, and Daken 90 times.) 

Borstock

Starfury said:

Borstock said:

If you want a challenge, don't use the boosted characters. Use 3* characters. It is still there to be had.

This is a mobile game. Repetition has been part of it since the beginning. It is what it is. 

I could also not use powers or deliberately match bad tiles.

That's not a challenge, it's me deliberately gimping myself. (and as a bonus getting less rewards for more effort)

Also, I know it's a mobile game and most have a certain degree of repetition. I'm complainig about the devs doubling down on that repetition.

It takes less time now. How is that doubling down? 

Your argument makes no sense. This is the game. It's a tile match game. It's always going to be the same. 

And your examples are not the same thing. If you bring weaker characters into the fight, you have to play smarter and more efficiently. If you deliberately make bad matches, you're just being stupid. 

All games like this are grindy. All of them. 

Starfury

Borstock said:

Starfury said:

Borstock said:

If you want a challenge, don't use the boosted characters. Use 3* characters. It is still there to be had.

This is a mobile game. Repetition has been part of it since the beginning. It is what it is. 

I could also not use powers or deliberately match bad tiles.

That's not a challenge, it's me deliberately gimping myself. (and as a bonus getting less rewards for more effort)

Also, I know it's a mobile game and most have a certain degree of repetition. I'm complainig about the devs doubling down on that repetition.

It takes less time now. How is that doubling down? 

Your argument makes no sense. This is the game. It's a tile match game. It's always going to be the same. 

And your examples are not the same thing. If you bring weaker characters into the fight, you have to play smarter and more efficiently. If you deliberately make bad matches, you're just being stupid. 

All games like this are grindy. All of them. 

Doubling down on repetition:

5 (easier) clears instead of 4 in PvE

40 (easier) wins instead of 25-30 in PvP

And I agree, there is a difference. If you make bad matches, you're being stupid in the match. If you bring a weaker characters, you're being stupid in the team selection screen.

DeNappa

As a PVE player (transitioning into 4* territory now), I'd rather have a somewhat more difficult match that I only have to play one or two times, than an easier match that I have to grind 5 times. It's just so boring.

broll

I've been playing for about 1.5 years and the game has always felt grindy and not challenging since day one.  There have been tweaks but all in all it's a grindy game.  There's a reason for that, that's how these games make money.  They make a grindy game where in order to truly progress you either work the game as a second job or you throw money at till it spits out that sweet 'progress' candy.  

There is certainly room for improvement, but I don't think the game will ever not feel grindy, because it's supposed to feel grindy so you have a reason to want to throw money at it instead of grinding.

Starfury said:

Borstock said:

Starfury said:

Borstock said:

If you want a challenge, don't use the boosted characters. Use 3* characters. It is still there to be had.

This is a mobile game. Repetition has been part of it since the beginning. It is what it is. 

I could also not use powers or deliberately match bad tiles.

That's not a challenge, it's me deliberately gimping myself. (and as a bonus getting less rewards for more effort)

Also, I know it's a mobile game and most have a certain degree of repetition. I'm complainig about the devs doubling down on that repetition.

It takes less time now. How is that doubling down? 

Your argument makes no sense. This is the game. It's a tile match game. It's always going to be the same. 

And your examples are not the same thing. If you bring weaker characters into the fight, you have to play smarter and more efficiently. If you deliberately make bad matches, you're just being stupid. 

All games like this are grindy. All of them. 

Doubling down on repetition:

5 (easier) clears instead of 4 in PvE

40 (easier) wins instead of 25-30 in PvP

And I agree, there is a difference. If you make bad matches, you're being stupid in the match. If you bring a weaker characters, you're being stupid in the team selection screen.

5 clears, but you have the option to drop down to whatever difficulty suits you.
40 clears, but you don't have to target 50+ point enemy, you can instead feel justified retaliating on a weak opponent that only offers 5 points.

IMO it balances out if you take advantage of the freedom of choice you're given.

Also there's been a notable move in 4*/5* land to make newer characters have more powerful moves and much more devastating passives (M4rvel, Bl4de, Thano5, 5trange, Vulture, etc)

Starfury

broll said:

5 clears, but you have the option to drop down to whatever difficulty suits you.
40 clears, but you don't have to target 50+ point enemy, you can instead feel justified retaliating on a weak opponent that only offers 5 points.

IMO it balances out if you take advantage of the freedom of choice you're given.

Also there's been a notable move in 4*/5* land to make newer characters have more powerful moves and much more devastating passives (M4rvel, Bl4de, Thano5, 5trange, Vulture, etc)

As far as time spent, the equation may work out to the same time, but I specifically didn't complain about time requirements but the repetitiveness.

120 battles vs seed teams only might also work out to the same amount of time spent per PvP, but I sincerely hope noone would prefer it over today's system.

Borstock

Starfury said:

Borstock said:

Starfury said:

Borstock said:

If you want a challenge, don't use the boosted characters. Use 3* characters. It is still there to be had.

This is a mobile game. Repetition has been part of it since the beginning. It is what it is. 

I could also not use powers or deliberately match bad tiles.

That's not a challenge, it's me deliberately gimping myself. (and as a bonus getting less rewards for more effort)

Also, I know it's a mobile game and most have a certain degree of repetition. I'm complainig about the devs doubling down on that repetition.

It takes less time now. How is that doubling down? 

Your argument makes no sense. This is the game. It's a tile match game. It's always going to be the same. 

And your examples are not the same thing. If you bring weaker characters into the fight, you have to play smarter and more efficiently. If you deliberately make bad matches, you're just being stupid. 

All games like this are grindy. All of them. 

Doubling down on repetition:

5 (easier) clears instead of 4 in PvE

40 (easier) wins instead of 25-30 in PvP

And I agree, there is a difference. If you make bad matches, you're being stupid in the match. If you bring a weaker characters, you're being stupid in the team selection screen.

5 easier clears that take half the time as the 4 used to... or even less if you drop down in SCL

40 easier wins that take less time than the 25-30 used to, and are less stressful overall

And that difference you're describing is not the same thing at all. I often choose to challenge myself by bringing teams I'm not familiar with or lower ranked teams into battles. It's fun, because I'm forced to play a more strategic game in order to try and match up points wise against teams that are bringing their best team. I should point out that I have found it fairly easy to t50 any event doing so.

You're asking for the game to be less grindy while simultaneously passing up every single opportunity the game currently offers to take part in a less grindy play-style. It sounds to me like you just don't like the game.

Borstock

Starfury said:

broll said:

5 clears, but you have the option to drop down to whatever difficulty suits you.
40 clears, but you don't have to target 50+ point enemy, you can instead feel justified retaliating on a weak opponent that only offers 5 points.

IMO it balances out if you take advantage of the freedom of choice you're given.

Also there's been a notable move in 4*/5* land to make newer characters have more powerful moves and much more devastating passives (M4rvel, Bl4de, Thano5, 5trange, Vulture, etc)

As far as time spent, the equation may work out to the same time, but I specifically didn't complain about time requirements but the repetitiveness.

120 battles vs seed teams only might also work out to the same amount of time spent per PvP, but I sincerely hope no one would prefer it over today's system.

Reductio ad absurdum.