Ideas for a better PvE experience

D4Ni13

Disclaimer:
MPQ has 2 areas: Versus which is PvP and we won't talk about here, and Story which wants to be PvE (or does it ?). Now if the original design and intention was to have a mix of PvE and PvP in the Story chapter, that's fine, but as it is now, the current Story mode does not resemblance the classic PvE. Furthermore, the methods used to differentiate players for the placement ranking are opposed to what PvE means and suggest.

As most of us know, PvE stands for Player vs Environment, and it's a game mode that requires no competition with other players. And thus people who don't enjoy competing with others for prizes, would have a game mode suited for them. Unfortunately, the Story mode in MPQ doesn't respect this concept (which is fine as long as it was intended like so). 

Knowing this we have 2 scenarios to talk about:

1. New PvE only
2. Current PvE with different methods for player placement

Note! Long post ahead!

 

What's wrong with Story mode ?
Before we get specific let me tell you what I dislike about the current PvE:

A. Timing & Speed = Win
In order to compete for top 10, all you need is timing and speed. Exactly the opposite of what a classic PvE means. 

A lot of people feel that competing on PvE is like a chore because of this. You have to enter at precise hours and play as fast as you can and compete with other players. While I don't necessarily dislike competing with others (even though it's PvE we're talking about), I absolutely dislike the methods for player placement. We have several other options and we will talk about when we get specific.

Sure you can say that if you don't like it you don't have to compete. And I agree, but knowing that you lose rewards for not being fast enough or that you are punished because you have a job and you cannot enter & play at the exact time you need, is a bit too far. 

I know the interest is to have people play as often as possible, but I don't think this is the right solution to obtain that. Give people options and challenges and they will play without you forcing them. What if a player wants to complete all the sub missions in 1 hour, or maybe wants to play a mission once at every 2 hours, because that's how his schedule lets him ? Right now, doing so, he has no chance to compete in placement, and that's not suited for a PvE mode. 

B. Other than endurance, there's no challenge.
Surely the word Puzzle isn't used for the sake of it. Right ? We actually need more variety in challenges and type of missions. Beating the same mission 7 times is definitely not fun for anyone. Yea, sure, the missions get a bit harder with every repetition, but that's about it. They are repetitive and makes you grind for points, but they don't feel challenging from the thinking point of view. 

The last boss fight with Kaelicius, was a perfect example of one thing that can be done. That fight really made us think about what teams to make in order to deal with him properly. But the challenge doesn't have to stop there.

This being said, lets address the suggestions. 

Talking Points: Suggestions

1. PvE only
Now there might be some disagreeing with me here, because this change would mean less rewards (no more players, no more placement), but this doesn't have to be the case. You can always add special missions that can grant extra rewards. As from a definition point of view, this would actually be a classic PvE. 

Now the idea behind this is simple: while PvP should be about competition and all that is involved there (timing, speed, power, bonuses, shield, and so on), PvE should be about the story, should not be about speed or timing under no circumstance. Instead it should focus on character development, story telling, ability understanding & testing, hard puzzle challenges from time to time, and so on. 

Right now Story mode is just a longer PvP masked with better progression rewards and mission based instead of pure versus teams. I'm not saying that it has no place in the game, but it could be better shifted toward environment & story rather than competition and grinding.

The idea of PvE is to make you keen of playing more because of the challenge, opposed to PvP in which you fight for power. In PvE I want to be able to test my heroes against certain powerful teams or scenarios & even try out some characters I don't own. I don't want to hurry and storm through it like in PvP, I want to take my time and enjoy the game in my own pace. That's all PvE is about. 

2. Current PvE, but no timing & no speed. 
Again, PvE should have a different pace than PvP. So that means I don't want to see any timing or speed requirements for max progression. 

You want player placement ? Fine. But find something else to make a difference, like hard challenges, actual puzzle scenarios, special nodes with different rules, more boss fights like Kaelicius, and so on.

You can still use time/speed in the equation, but instead of seeing how fast someone can complete a sub, you can see the best time for beating a certain mission. That changes everything, because you can play that mission any time during the sub, and it would only save the best time, regardless of how many attempts you had (of course number of attempts could also be limited or be part of the formula that gives you points afterwards). 

Example: have a special node with 5 different tiers. Only requirement: teams of heroes from the same rarity (1* to 5* only teams). And make a placement on the best time to beat the mission and award points or rewards based on this ranking.. A 3* team with a better time than a 4* team gets higher in ranking. If even, first best score is better. You can also make a difference between result from the levels of the heroes used. If a level 270 Gamora, 270 Grocket and 270 Medusa was faster than a 300 Gamora, 270 Medusa and 270 Blade, than it has a higher rank because of overall lower level with better score. The number of attempts to obtain that score can also influence your rank: more attempts, less points. 

There could also be missions in which you have to play a certain puzzle with certain heroes, and you don't have to have them. You get a certain board with 1 to 3 challenges and see if you're able to do them. Time of completion could award more points, but again it's fine because it doesn't matter at which point in the day I would play the mission, only the time I consumed to complete it.

And there are plenty ideas here that can be used to both suggestions (PvE only or current PvE updated)

Other Nodes ideas:

• Required chars (behemoth style) - I would go with name requirement, not rarity (civil war style. Name wolverine and I use what rarity I want).
• Affiliation nodes (team chars) - this is something surely considered, but yet to be implemented. Let's take advantage of the affiliations in game. X-Men vs Brotherhood, Guardians vs Cosmic heroes, Avengers, Team Cap, Team Ironman, Spiderverse, Inhumans, and so on. You can have missions that gives advantage for certain affiliation or disadvantage for other. Plenty space to implement ideas here. 
• Rarity nodes (best time) - described already
• Different challenges with bonus rewards like
•             nodes without special tiles or healing - you can use whoever you want, but special tiles don't have any effect and no healing.
•             nodes with sudden death - every turn a random hero gets his life hit with a certain amount
• Certain scenarios (actual puzzle - win the game in X moves with a preset team and board) - already described
• Boss fights like Kaelicius 

So, as you can see, there is plenty room for improvement. Bottom line is PvE should have a steady pace (opposed to PvP) with no timing or speed in mind and be packed with puzzles and different required special missions that bring more challenges to the player, without the feeling that you have to compete with others. Exceptions can be made by missions that use 'best time' scenarios, but the requirement is only for that mission alone, not the entire event.

Dax317

I really like a lot of what you have proposed. I miss the story side of the game. I also miss puzzles or challenges. I would love to see a new tab incorporating your ideas, while leaving what is now story and renaming is race mode or whatever. This way you could play anytime of day some aspects of the game. I wrote a lengthy post on things I feel can improve the game. I have included the link if you would like to look it over. You may have already. Great post!


https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/67405/new-types-of-tabs-and-other-improvements#latest

Tseb

Tl;dr version: we should have more events like the System Reboot.

Is that a fair summary?

D4Ni13

Tseb said:

Tl;dr version: we should have more events like the System Reboot.

Is that a fair summary?

No. System reboot is the same over and over again. I want to see variety in missions, challenges. I want to see scenarios in which I'm entering a preset board and have to figure out what to do to win the fight (like the challenges in some chess games). Even Magic the Gathering Dual Planeswalkers did this, and MtG is pretty new to this kind of games. 

So if you want a really short summary this is it: variety in missions and no requirement for fast event completion. 

Dormammu

Actually, System Reboot was exactly what PvE should be. No placement and no special time requirement; complete it at your leisure and get some nice prizes for doing so. It didn't have any less variety than most PvE events - in fact it probably had more in the diversity of opponents from node to node.

Dax317

Dormammu said:

Actually, System Reboot was exactly what PvE should be. No nplacement and no special time requirement; complete it at your leisure and get some nice prizes for doing so. It didn't have any less variety than most PvE events - in fact it probably had more in the diversity of opponents from node to node.

I would like to see one of these a week. Week long. Different setup. Different feel. Different puzzle. Maybe use the affiliations as the groups you can use. Lots of potential here. It would also give the iso people have been complaining about. 

Blergh

There is so much more to being a superhero than defeating super-villains. Spider-man is the prime example, he's always saving people from falling debris or something - and I've always thought that by focusing on defeating enemies this game has been too narrow. 

I mean, PVE's have a story attached to them, so why not make a different kind of puzzle where you are supposed to save a certain amount of citizens from a build /defuse a bomb / give chase to a villain somehow, infiltrate a building without being seen - there are literally thousands of tropes they could build a puzzle mechanic around and introduce through a story. Could even build some great puzzles from an enemy perspective. Assassination / bank robbery / kidnapping / high tech burglaries / manager large networks of drug distribution.  There are all sorts of crazy that could be introduced.  

Might make the story more relevant to - could even link it to powers. Spider-man centric puzzle - make web-tiles the key to beating the puzzle. 

Could even expand it into a mini-game tab or something people can mess about in when events get quiet. 

Although it might end up feeling a bit gimmicky, and the powers might not translate well....  expect that'd be the hardest thing. Making the powers relevant to a different kind of puzzle mechanic. 

D4Ni13

Blergh said:

There is so much more to being a superhero than defeating super-villains. Spider-man is the prime example, he's always saving people from falling debris or something - and I've always thought that by focusing on defeating enemies this game has been too narrow. 

I mean, PVE's have a story attached to them, so why not make a different kind of puzzle where you are supposed to save a certain amount of citizens from a build /defuse a bomb / give chase to a villain somehow, infiltrate a building without being seen - there are literally thousands of tropes they could build a puzzle mechanic around and introduce through a story. Could even build some great puzzles from an enemy perspective. Assassination / bank robbery / kidnapping / high tech burglaries / manager large networks of drug distribution.  There are all sorts of crazy that could be introduced.  

Might make the story more relevant to - could even link it to powers. Spider-man centric puzzle - make web-tiles the key to beating the puzzle. 

Could even expand it into a mini-game tab or something people can mess about in when events get quiet. 

Although it might end up feeling a bit gimmicky, and the powers might not translate well....  expect that'd be the hardest thing. Making the powers relevant to a different kind of puzzle mechanic. 

I like your ideas, and frankly this is what we need... more variety and a reason to enjoy playing PvE.

 Dormammu said:

Actually, System Reboot was exactly what PvE should be. No placement and no special time requirement; complete it at your leisure and get some nice prizes for doing so. It didn't have any less variety than most PvE events - in fact it probably had more in the diversity of opponents from node to node.

Well yeah, don't get me wrong, system reboot was fine, but othet than different opponents, there's no other variety. I could essentially finish it with the same team. That's not what I want. And only raising the difficulty to the same node isn't gonna cut it, as long as there is so much potential.

There are plenty ideas on the forum. I think it would be ashame if System Reboot is the only thing we get. (Again, good start with it, but we should want & expect more in the future as a whole IMO)

Dax317

D4Ni13 said:

 Dormammu said:

Actually, System Reboot was exactly what PvE should be. No placement and no special time requirement; complete it at your leisure and get some nice prizes for doing so. It didn't have any less variety than most PvE events - in fact it probably had more in the diversity of opponents from node to node.

Well yeah, don't get me wrong, system reboot was fine, but othet than different opponents, there's no other variety. I could essentially finish it with the same team. That's not what I want. And only raising the difficulty to the same node isn't gonna cut it, as long as there is so much potential.

There are plenty ideas on the forum. I think it would be ashame if System Reboot is the only thing we get. (Again, good start with it, but we should want & expect more in the future as a whole IMO)

Maybe if they made it where you could only use one line up per node. Maybe only be able to use the same character twice in the event. To offset that, all nodes would be open so you could make a strategy on which characters to play in which nodes. Just a thought.

D4Ni13

Dax317 said:

D4Ni13 said:

 Dormammu said:

Actually, System Reboot was exactly what PvE should be. No placement and no special time requirement; complete it at your leisure and get some nice prizes for doing so. It didn't have any less variety than most PvE events - in fact it probably had more in the diversity of opponents from node to node.

Well yeah, don't get me wrong, system reboot was fine, but othet than different opponents, there's no other variety. I could essentially finish it with the same team. That's not what I want. And only raising the difficulty to the same node isn't gonna cut it, as long as there is so much potential.

There are plenty ideas on the forum. I think it would be ashame if System Reboot is the only thing we get. (Again, good start with it, but we should want & expect more in the future as a whole IMO)

Maybe if they made it where you could only use one line up per node. Maybe only be able to use the same character twice in the event. To offset that, all nodes would be open so you could make a strategy on which characters to play in which nodes. Just a thought.

The idea is that you should not be forced to play in a certain way, but instead be challenged to play differently. 

In the current PvE you are forced to play for speed. If we change that in forcing to play with different squad we don't obtain much. Sure we can have required chars nodes, but boss fight like Kaelicius made us think and challenged us to play differently. We weren't forced by limitation, we we're challenged. That's the key difference I want. But I don't want to achieve this by simply making all nodes more difficult, but making more nodes different from one another. 

Dax317

D4Ni13 said:

Dax317 said: j

D4Ni13 said:

 Dormammu said:

Actually, System Reboot was exactly what PvE should be. No placement and no special time requirement; complete it at your leisure and get some nice prizes for doing so. It didn't have any less variety than most PvE events - in fact it probably had more in the diversity of opponents from node to node.

Well yeah, don't get me wrong, system reboot was fine, but othet than different opponents, there's no other variety. I could essentially finish it with the same team. That's not what I want. And only raising the difficulty to the same node isn't gonna cut it, as long as there is so much potential.

There are plenty ideas on the forum. I think it would be ashame if System Reboot is the only thing we get. (Again, good start with it, but we should want & expect more in the future as a whole IMO)

Maybe if they made it where you could only use one line up per node. Maybe only be able to use the same character twice in the event. To offset that, all nodes would be open so you could make a strategy on which characters to play in which nodes. Just a thought.

The idea is that you should not be forced to play in a certain way, but instead be challenged to play differently. 

In the current PvE you are forced to play for speed. If we change that in forcing to play with different squad we don't obtain much. Sure we can have required chars nodes, but boss fight like Kaelicius made us think and challenged us to play differently. We weren't forced by limitation, we we're challenged. That's the key difference I want. But I don't want to achieve this by simply making all nodes more difficult, but making more nodes different from one another. 

I was meaning for things like system reboot, not pve events. Sorry for the confusion.

SkadenFrudee

D3 wants to make money more than they want to implement these ideas. Since they are making said money without these changes, they will continue to not implement them.

QOL changes cost manpower/money. Which they want to save/make, not spend. 

Qazzy

I just say the same thing in Google store
But I think the "best time" is not a good idea, can use "turns limited" instead.
Furthermore, I think the PvE can use a "points multiplier (by difficulty)" to run the competition. Players can choose some settings that raising difficulty, try to do the best performance by current roster. The difficulty settings can including variety to fit different types of heroes, like enemy gaining extra AP for AP stealers/destroyers, limited turns for quick attackers, players receive extra dmg for healers/defenders, general difficulty options like raising enemy levels, or spacial rules like some boss mode,players can even choose multiple options at once if they want a great challenge (for some great points of course).