New style PVE

mega ghost

Phumade said:

mega ghost said:

But if you don't want to commit to a complete overhaul, why not at least take a smaller step in the right direction. I'd prefer it if the PvE nodes became survival nodes. Keep the current scaling system for difficulty, but instead of making us have the same exact fight 6+ times for each node, and at the exact right times, why not give us one shot at it where we're faced with let's say four to six waves, each wave sees an increase in difficulty (even if the enemies are identical, but that's another conversation), and getting to the end gives us maximum points. 

That sounds like Boss Rush. I know the real issue was tuning the scaling for that event. But every Boss event has reinforced this lesson to the devs. Players want an easy to complete event. They will accept many different versions of tie-breaking and scoring, but the community WILL NOT accept an event that can't be completed by at least 50% of the whole population..

Well, they could, because SCL scaling would still exist. Players with two-star teams would be competing against goons of the appropriate levels. There's no reason they couldn't complete the entire event. And even if they messed up horribly and placed poorly, they still would be able to play all they want, collect resources, and get progression rewards.

Brigby

mega ghost said:

Issues with rewards aside, I've always hated the system for PvE placement. Anything that requires timed grinding is by default no longer fun, and it's certainly not challenging or strategic gameplay. I've always wanted a system that rewards performance (see here) and encouraged diverse play based on different goals.

But if you don't want to commit to a complete overhaul, why not at least take a smaller step in the right direction. I'd prefer it if the PvE nodes became survival nodes. Keep the current scaling system for difficulty, but instead of making us have the same exact fight 6+ times for each node, and at the exact right times, why not give us one shot at it where we're faced with let's say four to six waves, each wave sees an increase in difficulty (even if the enemies are identical, but that's another conversation), and getting to the end gives us maximum points. You get halfway through, and you only get points for the waves you've cleared. After the first play-through points are no longer awarded, perhaps it becomes a single-wave match, but there are still ISO or CP or token awards, that way those interested can still collect resources.

And we wouldn't have to worry about tie-breakers if more than one person could exist in a placement slot. Have twenty people tied for first? Great, they all get the first place award! The awards / rewards are digital, they don't need to be treated like finite objects.

Brigby As a somewhat newer player, how would you feel about this?

mega ghost said:

My above idea would also shift the balance of power a bit. Some characters would still be best for PvP, and some would become that much more valuable for PvE. Characters that have high AP costs and are slow to start get crowded out of single-wave conflicts, but in a survival node they might really shine when they're ready to go by the second or third wave.

I think someone enjoyed the Spider-Man vs The Sinister Six event

In all seriousness though, it's an interesting concept, but I speculate that one big issue with that idea is time commitment. With only one shot at a 6+ time wave node, players would be forced to commit to X amount of time, lest they sacrifice points. With the current setup of 6 individual matches, players get the option to choose when they want to play each one, with no score penalty for a loss.

robertbah

aesthetocyst said:

And it's pretty simple. In concept.

Just multiply all the node values (and the progressions too ofc) by 10.

No other changes needed.

Do that and you can keep small min points on whatever nodes. They can still break ties and encourage neurotic play, without being lucrative enough to enable anyone to outgrind the point refresh.

Also, a 10x faster point refresh would make ties even less likely than they already are. They do happen now, divide that frequency by 10. 

And it would make PVE more fun by upping everyone's score! Same effort, 10x more points! Basically the pinball scoring effect. 24,000pt wave nodes! Wheeeeee!

I totally second on this increase points fix. I do not believe that time zone thing is an issue at all. This pve design has been this way for a long time. Just pick the one you will be most likely available for initial and final grinds. By simply multiply by 10, no extra coding is needed and you still have the "tie-breaker" for the last minute extra point grinds. However, it does eliminate those over-grinding two hours ahead and do the rest of them optimally strategy. 

animaniactoo

I believe the time slice/optimal clearing issue can be resolved by adding more time slices which would also address the issue that I and other players have had about not having a slice that really works with their time zone/life.

Adding just 1 more slice and staggering the slices evenly every 4 hours would likely give the majority of people something that works for them.

Otherwise, I have no desire to spend an extra hour or so at the end to grind 20 times on a node to make up for the fact that I got in or finished 10 minutes behind someone else at the beginning. Quite literally - even if I were willing to there is absolutely nothing to stop the person ahead of me from doing the same thing and therefore any "makeup advantage" that might exist from it is in actually completely nullified.

fmftint

aside from the finite point test, ties are exceedingly rare, and even in that test first to max points won.  the tie breaker excuse is just that, an excuse

robertbah

fmftint said:

aside from the finite point test, ties are exceedingly rare, and even in that test first to max points won.  the tie breaker excuse is just that, an excuse

I remember that test run. The problem with that is it only counts the speed of last sub. Your past performance was to get the sub rewards only.

Avalanche Kincaid

If you don't want to get rid of those minimum points, how about keep the 3pts but significantly increase level after each clear.  I'm thinking 31 levels each clear of 3pts.  At a certain point, thanos no longer relevant.  

adamdivine

@Brigby, @aesthetocyst provided an easy yet elegant solution to the problem, make tapping essentially not worth enough to overcome optimal game play. And i absolutely agree that the vast majority of people will respect fastest clears wins

exirabit

mega ghost said:

Issues with rewards aside, I've always hated the system for PvE placement. Anything that requires timed grinding is by default no longer fun, and it's certainly not challenging or strategic gameplay. 

This X1000. I love this game and would like to play frequently throughout the day. However, I cant. I have to play for exactly an hour an a half a day--45 mins before my daily pve event ends and 45 at the start of the new one. Otherwise, I'm just completely boned for placement. Any change that would let people play more often with less focus on the exact time of play would be welcome I think.