Cover loss is back in force

Calnexin

This is just a case of RNG being a tinykitty ladypuppy, but since "vaulting" "ended", I've drawn more covers I can't use than covers I can.  My most recent pulls have been C&D, Vulture, Elektra, and 5* IM that I could use.  I've also drawn a Nova and Thing that I need Iso to champ, and unusable (6th color) Brock, Carnage, and War Machine.  Plus, I purposefully tanked Real Steel to get out of T50 to avoid getting 3* Bullseye, because the next champ reward is a Kingpin I'm not ready for. And since today's Enchilada was Bullseye anyway, I'll have to sell that unless I can make over a million iso in 28 days.

In concept I'm one of those who thinks the current system of weighted 12 is a good one, but darn if it isn't biting me right in the tushie lately.

animaniactoo

It is the kind of thing that's always going to hit one slice of players in particular whenever a change goes into effect. Sucks to be the one in that slice...

fmftint

It's been started pretty much everywhere already but, 
DON'T OPEN TOKENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ISO

Jaedenkaal

fmftint said:

It's been started pretty much everywhere already but, 
DON'T OPEN TOKENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ISO

And certainly not once you already have a cover sitting in your queue that'll take ISO to use.

Also... you haven't champed 3* Bullseye yet? 

Calnexin

fmftint said:

It's been started pretty much everywhere already but, 
DON'T OPEN TOKENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ISO

Where's the fun in that?

I realize my behavior is non-optimal, but hoarding makes the game less enjoyable for me than losing covers, so I don't do it until I'm in a very deep hole.

Borstock

Calnexin said:

fmftint said:

It's been started pretty much everywhere already but, 
DON'T OPEN TOKENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ISO

Where's the fun in that?

I realize my behavior is non-optimal, but hoarding makes the game less enjoyable for me than losing covers, so I don't do it until I'm in a very deep hole.

Isn't this kind of like getting mad at the fire after you willingly put your hand in it?

Daredevil217

Borstock said:

Calnexin said:

fmftint said:

It's been started pretty much everywhere already but, 
DON'T OPEN TOKENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ISO

Where's the fun in that?

I realize my behavior is non-optimal, but hoarding makes the game less enjoyable for me than losing covers, so I don't do it until I'm in a very deep hole.

Isn't this kind of like getting mad at the fire after you willingly put your hand in it?

Pretty much this. Hoarding isn't fun for you, pulling useless covers isn't fun for you. Pick your poison. 

animaniactoo

Daredevil217 said:

Borstock said:

Calnexin said:

fmftint said:

It's been started pretty much everywhere already but, 
DON'T OPEN TOKENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ISO

Where's the fun in that?

I realize my behavior is non-optimal, but hoarding makes the game less enjoyable for me than losing covers, so I don't do it until I'm in a very deep hole.

Isn't this kind of like getting mad at the fire after you willingly put your hand in it?

Pretty much this. Hoarding isn't fun for you, pulling useless covers isn't fun for you. Pick your poison. 

S/he did. Just because you had to pick your poison doesn't mean you have to be happy while it's going down.

I have a play style that works best for me and my personality. Once in awhile a game change or the way things have shown up in quick succession have made me a bit nuts. I also take that as part of the game and feel perfectly entitled to grump about it a bit. I mean, if I don't experience that part (while acknowledging that it's this *moment*), then I won't experience the happy points where it's all coming up my way in the same way/that push is over. So Pthfft. It's Calnexin's party today.

Tintaiwan

I personally like being able to finish characters that were stalled out completely, and start ones that I had never gotten.  There is risk.  I had 6 covers on counting down (4star punisher, iceman, spider-gwen, thing, vision) all of which had been vaulted.  I was able to sell some placeholders, and 2 star champs to make room.  Now just Spidergwen and howard the duck waiting in the countdown reward bin...  

But I would rather have it possible to get everyone.  instead of relying on an occasion DPD vault.   It does create some dilemmas.   But I think vaulting was leading to everyone having the exacts same roster.   This way choice of who to keep is key again.  

Nick441234

Calnexin said:

fmftint said:

It's been started pretty much everywhere already but, 
DON'T OPEN TOKENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ISO

Where's the fun in that?

I realize my behavior is non-optimal, but hoarding makes the game less enjoyable for me than losing covers, so I don't do it until I'm in a very deep hole.

I have always felt like that, until recently. I had to hoard my LTs as I had most the latest 12 covered (prior to unvaulting). When unvaulting was announced I was able to cash in 18 LTs and another 4 from CP. I actually really enjoyed it. 

RedLion

aesthetocyst said:

If you play long enough, and hard enough, you can eventually get over the hump. You can champ all the 4*s, just like you eventually champed all the 3s, and long ago, all the 2s.

This is what makes sense to me. I can see the light at the end of the 4* tunnel now (I'm champing Moon Knight, number 35 tonight). It's still 8-10 months away (given no major bumps in the release schedule, or increase/decrease of ISO flow), but I can feel it. In fact after about four months, my odds of getting anything but a champ level from a token will decrease to "negligible".

Optimal behavior and non-optimal behavior yield different results, but I don't believe it's correct to assume they will yield vastly different results. Have fun. Play hard. Let's all hope Yondu is as fun to play as he looks to be. 

GurlBYE

fmftint said:

It's been started pretty much everywhere already but, 
DON'T OPEN TOKENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ISO

Which does 0 when you don't have the character fully covered anyhow.

  

I guess everyone else here get's magical 4/4/4's but i damn sure don't.

GurlBYE

Hoarding kinda makes the game feel like a job for me so I don't do it.

And hoarding is extremely inefficient in what you lose vs what you gain until you are middle to late 4 star tier, or going for 5's.

A new potential 4, thats boosted means more possible rewards/ faster clears.

900 CP is cute, but if you just endlessly wait for ISO then you'll be working a job most of the year matching 3 with the same team, breaking a hoard while crossing your fingers that things align and that you get 18 covers that happen to divide at least 13 in a 5/5/3 pattern and not 10/0/10. because no amount of ISO will change that.

unless you've got everyone sitting at 13 covers and unchamped, you cannot avoid wasted covers. 

Reecoh

GurlBYE said:

Hoarding kinda makes the game feel like a job for me so I don't do it.

And hoarding is extremely inefficient in what you lose vs what you gain until you are middle to late 4 star tier, or going for 5's.

A new potential 4, thats boosted means more possible rewards/ faster clears.

900 CP is cute, but if you just endlessly wait for ISO then you'll be working a job most of the year matching 3 with the same team, breaking a hoard while crossing your fingers that things align and that you get 18 covers that happen to divide at least 13 in a 5/5/3 pattern and not 10/0/10. because no amount of ISO will change that.

unless you've got everyone sitting at 13 covers and unchamped, you cannot avoid wasted covers. 

Wasting covers is going to happen but I have been able to use hoarding & binging to minimize the cover waste, and optimizing my cover usage is part of the fun for me. I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me, but my 4* cover waste is ~ 2%, with 20 4*s champed and I think ~75% of the covers needed to cover all 4s to 13.

With the new tokens I expect the loss will go up but it'll be interesting (to me anyway) to see how the rates change.

Borstock

GurlBYE said:

fmftint said:

It's been started pretty much everywhere already but, 
DON'T OPEN TOKENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ISO

Which does 0 when you don't have the character fully covered anyhow.

  

I guess everyone else here get's magical 4/4/4's but i damn sure don't.

Its not just about that, though. The idea is to hoard so much that even if you get covers you can't use, you can keep pulling until you get the ones that make that cover usable. I had 5 Coulsons on the vine before I got the one I needed to champ him. I was able to absorb it because I had enough iso to champ multiple characters and go.

broll

GurlBYE said:

And hoarding is extremely inefficient in what you lose vs what you gain until you are middle to late 4 star tier, or going for 5's.

ummm based on what?

GurlBYE

broll said:

GurlBYE said:

And hoarding is extremely inefficient in what you lose vs what you gain until you are middle to late 4 star tier, or going for 5's.

ummm based on what?

If a person's got a 3 star roster, they aren't earning rewards fast enough for hoarding materials that give 4 and better to be a better ROI. In some cases it's just prolonging what would happen.

If someone has 2 4 champs, and more often than not has no boosted 4's that's pvp rewards halved, and slower clear times in events.

It's most rewarding with a huge roster that's flexible and powerful without additions. 

Every draw you hold off to make also can impact the new releases that occur every two weeks featuring an event right after with 4 star as a requirement.

Where as

with a 4 star roster with like 25 4 champs that fit into the boost schedule, not drawing has little to no effect on your performance ability in events.

Going for a 5? Well then it's much more rewarding to chuck your 5000 CP at a token that has 3 5 stars, aiming to complete them, as opposed to throwing 5000 CP at a token that has like 12 5 stars and like 40 4 stars. 

Hoarding is an attempt to reduce bad luck, but it's not guaranteed. 

GurlBYE

Borstock said:

GurlBYE said:

fmftint said:

It's been started pretty much everywhere already but, 
DON'T OPEN TOKENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ISO

Which does 0 when you don't have the character fully covered anyhow.

  

I guess everyone else here get's magical 4/4/4's but i damn sure don't.

Its not just about that, though. The idea is to hoard so much that even if you get covers you can't use, you can keep pulling until you get the ones that make that cover usable. I had 5 Coulsons on the vine before I got the one I needed to champ him. I was able to absorb it because I had enough iso to champ multiple characters and go.

That's not guaranteed but understandable. That method is even less effective now though with the pool being so wide, and is definitely way more viable late in rosters life than early on. Especially with the huge 50 character transition. 

Unless they have brilliant token luck, it's going to take them an a decent amount of luck along with a pretty deep pool of HP to avoid all wasted covers while trying to build stables from tokens that can contain any 1 of 3 variations of 50+ characters.

I mean if a person has the will power to save 18 Million ISO they can draw to their hearts content I guess. 

That location where you know when it's safe to reduce draws to ensure safety is pretty late game. A person without all 4's rostered for instance is always in a state of danger then. 

If it were as easy as hoarding they'd reduce HP or ISO rates, the answer hoard is where the designs of the game want you to spend. whether its on ISO (Lol who would do this) or HP, but yeah. 

Blindman13

GurlBYE said:

Hoarding is an attempt to reduce bad luck, but it's not guaranteed. 

Hoarding is done to prevent waste, not reduce bad luck.
If you only have 2 champed 4*s, you probably shouldn't be hoarding. If you have roster room for new characters and ISO to level the ones you have, go ahead and open those tokens.
Personally, I hoard CP, but I open my LTs as soon as I get them (mostly because I don;t like seeing that number at the bottom left. The CP at the top doesn't bug me as much. When I have no covers on the vine I will use CP until a get a 13th cover for someone who isn't champed yet, then I hold off until I can champ that one. and then start over.
Because I open LTs as soon as I get them, I occasionally have a cover I have to sell, but that's my own fault for not being patient, and i'm OK with that. 

Borstock

GurlBYE said:

Borstock said:

GurlBYE said:

fmftint said:

It's been started pretty much everywhere already but, 
DON'T OPEN TOKENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ISO

Which does 0 when you don't have the character fully covered anyhow.

  

I guess everyone else here get's magical 4/4/4's but i damn sure don't.

Its not just about that, though. The idea is to hoard so much that even if you get covers you can't use, you can keep pulling until you get the ones that make that cover usable. I had 5 Coulsons on the vine before I got the one I needed to champ him. I was able to absorb it because I had enough iso to champ multiple characters and go.

That's not guaranteed but understandable. That method is even less effective now though with the pool being so wide, and is definitely way more viable late in rosters life than early on. Especially with the huge 50 character transition. 

Unless they have brilliant token luck, it's going to take them an a decent amount of luck along with a pretty deep pool of HP to avoid all wasted covers while trying to build stables from tokens that can contain any 1 of 3 variations of 50+ characters.

I mean if a person has the will power to save 18 Million ISO they can draw to their hearts content I guess. 

That location where you know when it's safe to reduce draws to ensure safety is pretty late game. A person without all 4's rostered for instance is always in a state of danger then. 

If it were as easy as hoarding they'd reduce HP or ISO rates, the answer hoard is where the designs of the game want you to spend. whether its on ISO (Lol who would do this) or HP, but yeah. 

My Grandma always said, "There are no guarantees in life".

But, yes, them pulling back on vaulting has made what I said more complicated. Or less complicated, depending on whether or not you're willing to hoard 18 million ISO. :P

Warbringa

Well it has happened to me too but funny enough 5 of the 6 covers I can't use are all current 12 character that I am not close to finishing out anyway so I guess I would have been out of luck under the previous system too!  2 Blue Mordos, 2 Yellow Carols, and 1 Blue Iron Fist.  The only vaulted one that I can't use was a red Thing which I just received today.  I think the issue, once again, isn't vaulting or no vaulting, its the sixth/seventh/eighth/ninth color cover that is unusable (this is actually my seventh and eighth color covers for both Mordo and Carol as I have sold these colors previously multiple times before )