PVP Points

konannfriends
konannfriends Posts: 246 Tile Toppler
edited August 2017 in MPQ General Discussion
How does pvp point work. 
I was at number 4# in a bracket at 797 points
Decided to unshield. Btw I'm a broke college student so using a 24 hour shield when it could have been 300 towards a new roster slot is already a tense decision.

But I just wanted to try and get a 4* BLADE from pvp for the 900 and Maybe place top 5 for the carnage *but not the concern.

So I tried to climb. The only openents I found gave me 20 points. So I picked the easiest "lookin" team. A level 145 Colosus , 170 iron man40, and Kamala. 

Well the Ai matches black and yellow popped off iron man yellow, tossed Kamala and used her green into her green again. And I lost btw. I was using buffed 245 GSBW, And 167 Uncanny Cyclops And the given Colosus.

Okay no biggy only lost 37!!!!!!!!! tinykitty points but whatever. Proceeds to face a different team for 20 points. Hurray I WON!!!! but what's that I only got 11 points.... but I just lost 37.... okay just stay positive.

Finds the same Kamala team. PAYBACK TIME!!
3 minutes later -35

Okay maybe I shouldn't fight that guy again

Chooses a team against hulk and some others.
-27

Okay this bots are smart early in the morning.

Finds the Kamala team again,  woah they are worth 40 now that they stolen 90 from me.
3 minutes and high blood pressure later -31
Also  attacked twice -55

Looks at my total of 630 that was just 780.
Begins to open Google and type d3 forums.

Hope you all enjoyed I was a bit more annoyed with my loses than anything. But really the points system is tinykitty. Lose more than you can gain if you aren't sporting scare tactic characters, like captain marvel 4*, Kamala, or Thanks.

I'd rather do 40 games than deal with this. And maybe try to get a too placement Every once in a while.

***Removed profanity and inappropriate language - Ducky
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Comments

  • konannfriends
    konannfriends Posts: 246 Tile Toppler
    That was way too much info at one time. But I will try again another time. I didn't see any 50+ but I will definelty do that and see
  • Daiches
    Daiches Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    konannfriends said:
    That was way too much info at one time. But I will try again another time. I didn't see any 50+ but I will definelty do that and see
    Then your first take away should be you can search for targets while shielded, and that you should look for Qs of a higher score (38 points = exact same score as you. Anything less and you're hitting someone with a lower score and giving them a fat point retal)
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Bowgentle said:
    The point system is fine. You need to learn how to play PVP.
    I would debate the idea that the point system is "fine" if you need to go outside of the game to research strategies in order to make the most of it.

    Nothing it taught to you in game. Instead you need to look upon those who went before as they slowly bend the system into something workable.

    Taking 20 pointers when the max is 75?
    Staying out for ages unshielded hitting randoms you queue while you unshielded?

    Yeah, nothing in game tells you that those are bad ideas, indeed.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Bowgentle said:
    The point system is fine. You need to learn how to play PVP.
    I would debate the idea that the point system is "fine" if you need to go outside of the game to research strategies in order to make the most of it.

    Nothing it taught to you in game. Instead you need to look upon those who went before as they slowly bend the system into something workable.
    When I first joined the game for the first 3 months I had no idea that PvE was competitive or anything more than a 'temporary prologue.'   Nothing in the game taught me to do that, I had to come here and read Polarity's old guides to figure things out.

    PvE is fine, however.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2017
    In response the OP, PvP is a broken system that only works well if you roster is significantly advanced or if you do a lot of external to the game gymnastics and coordination (often both are required). if I were you I'd go for the 10 pack from season, the 575 Cp from each event, and the top simulator price. Outside of that you're either going to need to get a second degree in MPQPvP or spend a lot on shields (and probably still not get 900).
    Bowgentle said:
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Bowgentle said:
    The point system is fine. You need to learn how to play PVP.
    I would debate the idea that the point system is "fine" if you need to go outside of the game to research strategies in order to make the most of it.

    Nothing it taught to you in game. Instead you need to look upon those who went before as they slowly bend the system into something workable.

    Taking 20 pointers when the max is 75?
    Staying out for ages unshielded hitting randoms you queue while you unshielded?

    Yeah, nothing in game tells you that those are bad ideas, indeed.

    So the other options is to skip 800 times to find a 70, fight them and have it take 3 times a long, to come out and see you lost 150 points during the long match.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll said:
    In response the OP, PvP is a broken system that only works well if you roster is significantly advanced or if you do a lot of external to the game gymnastics and coordination (often both are required). if I were you I'd go for the 10 pack from season, the 575 Cp from each event, and the top simulator price. Outside of that you're either going to need to get a second degree in MPQPvP or spend a lot on shields (and probably still not get 900).
    Bowgentle said:
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Bowgentle said:
    The point system is fine. You need to learn how to play PVP.
    I would debate the idea that the point system is "fine" if you need to go outside of the game to research strategies in order to make the most of it.

    Nothing it taught to you in game. Instead you need to look upon those who went before as they slowly bend the system into something workable.

    Taking 20 pointers when the max is 75?
    Staying out for ages unshielded hitting randoms you queue while you unshielded?

    Yeah, nothing in game tells you that those are bad ideas, indeed.

    So the other options is to skip 800 times to find a 70, fight them and have it take 3 times a long, to come out and see you lost 150 points during the long match.
    Or he could be reasonable, skip 20 times to find a 40 pointer that is actually worth 40, and beatable.

    But hey, what do I know.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    The developers have made such an effort to balance PvE so that anyone, regardless of roster progress, can compete and at the very least get progression prizes. But the PvP door is practically closed until you have the majority of 3-stars champed, and even then you're limited in how far you can go on progression in individual events (forget placement until much later than that).

    I think if all players understood that PvP is the 'veteran arena' there would be less frustration here on these boards. But new-ish or uninformed players expect it to be like PvE where they can get the thrill of competing for top prizes when that's not the case.

    The prize in PvP is the season slog. Slow accumulation of gem-season, SHIELD sim, and individual event progression adds up into a nice tidy sum of resources by the time its all done. But it's hard to see if you don't understand how they're all tied together. Instead, a newer player just sees those 4-star covers for top 10 that are completely out of their reach.
  • Blergh
    Blergh Posts: 159 Tile Toppler
    Bowgentle said:
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Bowgentle said:
    The point system is fine. You need to learn how to play PVP.
    I would debate the idea that the point system is "fine" if you need to go outside of the game to research strategies in order to make the most of it.

    Nothing it taught to you in game. Instead you need to look upon those who went before as they slowly bend the system into something workable.

    Taking 20 pointers when the max is 75?
    Staying out for ages unshielded hitting randoms you queue while you unshielded?

    Yeah, nothing in game tells you that those are bad ideas, indeed.
    This kind of demonstrates Dragon's point and doesn't counter it.

    Nothing in the game explains how the point system works, or what the max is. If the poster saw nothing above forty points, how would they know that 75 points exist and is the max? How would they know that intuitively? It's very rare I see 75, most I've seen this current event is in the sixty region and I was well into skip tax then. That limits the amount casuals will search. 

    So yeah quite literally nothing in the game tells you that. That's forum knowledge not in game. 

    It's understandable, the more you learn the more the basics will seem obvious and people will see it as being obvious as they know it. It'd hard to separate the knowledge you've learnt from the knowledge that's inherent.  But in isolation it's not so obvious or even in the game.

    I think from the amount of new members that ask about PVP and PVE - and how they work just goes to show that the systems are not fully understood. 

    As it stand even changing the system would produce this problem in future, and as such this isn't a flaw in the system but rather that developers haven't provided new players with the information they need to understand it. If they changed the system with little explanation in game, the same situation would arise again eventually anyway. 

    It's why most games have a tutorial section that will pit you against a computer made opponent and talk you through features, such as shields, points, and stuff even if it on a much smaller scale than the normal events. Instead there is a prologue where none of this is discussed. They should put a simulated or tutorial on both sections there really. It doesn't have to be a full rank event, just give the basics.  I think it'd go a long way to helping deal with the frustrations new players feel. 
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dormammu said:
    The developers have made such an effort to balance PvE so that anyone, regardless of roster progress, can compete and at the very least get progression prizes. But the PvP door is practically closed until you have the majority of 3-stars champed, and even then you're limited in how far you can go on progression in individual events (forget placement until much later than that).

    I think if all players understood that PvP is the 'veteran arena' there would be less frustration here on these boards. But new-ish or uninformed players expect it to be like PvE where they can get the thrill of competing for top prizes when that's not the case.

    The prize in PvP is the season slog. Slow accumulation of gem-season, SHIELD sim, and individual event progression adds up into a nice tidy sum of resources by the time its all done. But it's hard to see if you don't understand how they're all tied together. Instead, a newer player just sees those 4-star covers for top 10 that are completely out of their reach.
    I think that's true, but I also think that the fact that PvP is essentially roster locked is a major problem.  I also believe that a lot of the cupcakes, grilling, codeword#3, shenanigans spawns from this.  The vets are essentially trying to make up for the lack of low level players that try it and get demoralized.  Imagine what PvP could be like if they didn't have to setup straw man teams to beat up and we could actually just play?  Crazy right.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll said:
    Dormammu said:
    The developers have made such an effort to balance PvE so that anyone, regardless of roster progress, can compete and at the very least get progression prizes. But the PvP door is practically closed until you have the majority of 3-stars champed, and even then you're limited in how far you can go on progression in individual events (forget placement until much later than that).

    I think if all players understood that PvP is the 'veteran arena' there would be less frustration here on these boards. But new-ish or uninformed players expect it to be like PvE where they can get the thrill of competing for top prizes when that's not the case.

    The prize in PvP is the season slog. Slow accumulation of gem-season, SHIELD sim, and individual event progression adds up into a nice tidy sum of resources by the time its all done. But it's hard to see if you don't understand how they're all tied together. Instead, a newer player just sees those 4-star covers for top 10 that are completely out of their reach.
    I think that's true, but I also think that the fact that PvP is essentially roster locked is a major problem.  I also believe that a lot of the cupcakes, grilling, codeword#3, shenanigans spawns from this.  The vets are essentially trying to make up for the lack of low level players that try it and get demoralized.  Imagine what PvP could be like if they didn't have to setup straw man teams to beat up and we could actually just play?  Crazy right.

    Go play s2, that's exactly what you're looking for.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's not, but thanks for playing.
  • Pants1000
    Pants1000 Posts: 484 Mover and Shaker
    One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the game queues your next few opponents, but doesn't display them until you skip.  The points shown are what the opponent was worth when they were queued, which could be hours ago if you haven't skipped 3-5 times.  This is one reason you sometimes get far less for winning than it showed.

    To avoid this, when you start playing skip 3-5 times before hitting anyone, or at least accept that if you hit someone before doing so, there's a good chance the points you'll receive are way off.

    On a different note, a 3* roster is going to have a very tough time finding 38+ point targets that they can beat when pushing for 900.  Some of the advice others gave above may not apply well to 3* rosters.  You just need to play more to learn who you can beat, how fast you can beat them, and how long you can stay unshielded while pushing for 900.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Jarvind said:
    Bowgentle said:
    broll said:
    In response the OP, PvP is a broken system that only works well if you roster is significantly advanced or if you do a lot of external to the game gymnastics and coordination (often both are required). if I were you I'd go for the 10 pack from season, the 575 Cp from each event, and the top simulator price. Outside of that you're either going to need to get a second degree in MPQPvP or spend a lot on shields (and probably still not get 900).
    Bowgentle said:
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    Bowgentle said:
    The point system is fine. You need to learn how to play PVP.
    I would debate the idea that the point system is "fine" if you need to go outside of the game to research strategies in order to make the most of it.

    Nothing it taught to you in game. Instead you need to look upon those who went before as they slowly bend the system into something workable.

    Taking 20 pointers when the max is 75?
    Staying out for ages unshielded hitting randoms you queue while you unshielded?

    Yeah, nothing in game tells you that those are bad ideas, indeed.

    So the other options is to skip 800 times to find a 70, fight them and have it take 3 times a long, to come out and see you lost 150 points during the long match.
    Or he could be reasonable, skip 20 times to find a 40 pointer that is actually worth 40, and beatable.

    But hey, what do I know.
    You're being pretty rude and condescending here, dude. The people trying to help out OP are right - nothing in the game explains to you how the point system works, and if you're just starting out, you don't have any way of knowing that you're going to get pounded nonstop above a certain score if you're unshielded.

    Try to keep in mind that at some point, you necessarily did not know any of this stuff and had to figure it out. We all start off as scrubs.
    I was responding to Broll's 70 pointer comment, which was not what I meant.

    There's been so much stuff about PVP strategy being posted lately, sh81's 200 posts included, I'm tired of yet another "I don't get PVP" thread.

    I'll just see myself out.
  • Felessa
    Felessa Posts: 161 Tile Toppler
    edited August 2017
    Well, it would help if points weren't lose from Progression... they are important for Placement. That would makes more sense than what we actually have, simple as that. I really hope the devs continue to test PvP and make it better for everyone, as they did with PvE.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    konannfriends said:
    How does pvp point work. 
    I was at number 4# in a bracket at 797 points
    Decided to unshield. Btw I'm a broke college student so using a 24 hour shield when it could have been 300 towards a new roster slot is already a tense decision.

    I think I read every comment and no one touched on what I put in bold. Yea, the vets will help dispense advice they've learned, and that is definitely helpful.

    But what happens when shields/ISO tax aren't an option? I didn't see any advice that would actually help this particular person. I'd hate to give it out because I know very little when it comes to PVP mechanics. 

    So I'll give my advice and you can correct me if I'm wrong: You can't make it to 900 with your roster + being a person who has to consider resource (HP, and most likely ISO) management. Try it 100 times if you need to and see. You might do it a few times. But the system was not built for you (currently) to make it. Keep building your roster.

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