Vintage Characters Returning to Packs! (7/27/17)

smkspy

Oh man, decided to pull one classic LT just to see what would happen, and of all the possible characters, I get my 14th Xavier. 

So surprising (sarcasm)

Also pulled a kate from a heroic token, at least it was usable.

TheHungryPet

I applaud the devs for implementing this change. I joined the game in March 2017 (shocking!) and always felt like I only had access to 25% of the characters. It was simply impossible to access any of the vaulted characters. You might get lucky and draw one from vaults or story events, but where would 1-3 covers take you?

Is not being able to champ that 25th 4* character going to ruin the game for you? I hope not.  I think being limited to always using the same characters has a much deeper impact on the enjoyment of the game and I am looking forward to welcoming many new characters to my roster.

The big challenge I see is competition for roster slots/HP. Just need to exercise more self control opening tokens.

BoyWonder1914

I can feel people's pain that just got acclimated to the vaulting system. The devs throw these kinds of curveballs at us all the time, and although we **** about it, we usually figure out a way to proceed forward regardless. It sucked to all of a sudden get access cut off to so many 4-stars, but we figured out how to roll with it by learning we could optimize resources if we focused on the latest 12 first. Guaranteed higher odds to cover new characters, and guaranteed higher odds to get 10+ champ levels on those characters before they rotated out. We got fully used to this, and then with no warning whatsoever they add everyone back with no separation of latest and "vintage" other than increased odds. Well that's just asking to get screwed over by RnG, which is far from what the people who wanted a solution to dilution asked for. People now have to go back to not being sure if they will get a newly released character fully covered or not. People now have to go back to calculating their potential waste rates with a pool of 50 characters, as opposed to one with 12. More importantly though, the champ schedule many people had is probably thrown off-kilter, now that they have to worry about pulling a 14th cover on someone they weren't planning to champ yet. 

While I am still happy I have the opportunity to get more champ levels for people that would otherwise be neglected, I feel bad for the people that may never get a chance to fully cover people like RBG, G4mora, Cloak & Dagger, etc. 

AlluAllu

Yeah. There are so many 4-star characters, I don't see newbies such as myself building useful vintage characters any time soon. 

DyingLegend

So I thought about it and who ever decided this was a good idea needs to be fired immediately. This is so unimaginably dumb. You basically took something that was working ( small packs with limited characters) and completely screwed it up. The main reason that was done in the first place was to stop dilution! The one thing you guys didn't want! So WHY did you think that was a good idea to go back to the way things were!?! This game takes two steps forward and then 100 steps backwards! Was it so difficult to just do a new and a classic vault and change up the classics rotating some in and out? Or was that too easy of a solution? This game infuriates me. 

No VIP purchase for me this month or in the future and I'm going to start hoarding until another solution comes down the pipeline. I don't want to start pulling king pins again or Electras. 

Freelancer

Welp, I just went from worrying about pulling covers for 2 max covered unchamped 4*s up to 18 max covered unchamped 4*s... From 6 unusable pulls to 54...

I wasn't that upset with vaulting, as it released at a time where I had several vaulted characters champed and most of the rest fairly heavily covered. I adapted to the change, as many did, and used the new Bonus Hero system to flesh out and start fully covering the vaulted 4*s. I was fairly happy champing mainly latest 4*s and champing the odd vaulted 4* whenever I picked up a bunch of covers for them from an event. Using Bonus Heroes, I managed to get the number of covers needed to have every vaulted 4* fully covered down to 2 (Ant-Man: Purple + Elektra: Black or Red).

Felonius

Starfury said:

Felonius said:

My only concern now is, will I be able to keep up with new releases as I could under Vaulting?  I'm hopeful that between BoHe and the Latest still having a higher probability, that I will.  And I'm expecting the extra champ rewards will help towards my 5* growth.

The speed at which you acquire covers for the latest 12 has been halved, but - more importantly - it's still independent from the total number characters in the game.

Before, the chance to pull any given latest 4* was 1:14, now it's 1:28. So all things being equal, you should have a new character champed, by around the time you reached lvl 280 under Vaulting (assuming 3 extra tokens from the release event, progression reward and 2000 simulator points).

If you set the new character as bonus hero, you'll reach 13 covers around 25% faster than under Vaulting without BH or about 2/3 as fast as Vaulting + BH

@Starfury thanks for helpful information.  I didn't understand how the percentages work, so I appreciate you spelling it out for me.

DCUDCU

Starfury said:

Who's telling you it's 3.00000 times?

Just like the odds they give you for different star levels, the 3x banner is a rough approximation of the true value.

At some point, the 3x banner is going to be replaced by a 4x banner, because there's around 48 vintage 4*.

We can only estimate on the given information. Who knows, maybe one 4* you can get 80% of the time. I'm not wasting my CP to check.

Zalasta

I'm still perplexed as to why the Latest Legends don't contain the 12 latest 4-stars, and the Classic legends contain the remainder of the (previously vaulted) 4-stars.  Latest Legends should be the Latest 12 4-stars.  Why was this so difficult to implement? It's been suggested as the desired outcome numerous times to give people better access to the characters they want.

Slothkins

Crowl said:

Wumpushunter said:

So basically if you have champed fours up the wazoo you hate the change and if have few to none you love the change, that about sum it up?

I think it is more nuanced than that, if you have a lot of champed 4s then you will hate the change when a new character enters the tokens as building those has drastically slowed, but after that you will be somewhat indifferent to the change since most covers will be usable to those rosters under either system.

The people this change really helps in the long run are those who earn enough hp to keep up with new release slots, but were not covering those new characters quickly enough to champ them before they left the latest 12, so they would just end up with an ever larger roster of incomplete characters, whereas now they can steadily work their way through champing whoever is finished next with a 14th cover waiting.

This is me to a T. Vaulting was cool, because it quickly got me some useable 4 stars. But this new system is even better, because I have every 4 star and almost all 5s, and a bunch of iso saved for whenever I get enough covers to have to champ someone. I'll be able to pull a token whenever I get the cp, and see what it gets me. 

Freelancer

I wish players could just build their own Legendary store, where if you favourite exactly three 5* and twelve 4*, it gives access to a store that has the same odds as the old Latest legends store but only pulls favourited characters.

I'd pull from this store for 30 CP with 0% Bonus Hero chance!

Wumpushunter

I am starting to think that this change was just a way to let the pro vaulting people propagandize for vaulting and in a few days the developers will say oh my look at all the people in favor of vaulting. My conspiracy theory of the day.

astrp3

DyingLegend said:

So WHY did you think that was a good idea to go back to the way things were!?! This game takes two steps forward and then 100 steps backwards!

Maybe because people on here whined and moaned like vaulting was going to cause the heat death of the universe, suggested that whoever implemented it be fired, said vaulting was two steps forward and 100 steps backward, and said they were discontinuing VIP unless they went back to the way things were (yes, I know that several people suggested splitting the stores or adding a third one, but a number of vocal people also said that going back to the way things were before was better than vaulting as it was. I also realize that they haven't gone back to exactly the way things were before).

DyingLegend

astrp3 said:

DyingLegend said:

So WHY did you think that was a good idea to go back to the way things were!?! This game takes two steps forward and then 100 steps backwards!

Maybe because people on here whined and moaned like vaulting was going to cause the heat death of the universe, suggested that whoever implemented it be fired, said vaulting was two steps forward and 100 steps backward, and said they were discontinuing VIP unless they went back to the way things were (yes, I know that several people suggested splitting the stores or adding a third one, but a number of vocal people also said that going back to the way things were before was better than vaulting as it was. I also realize that they haven't gone back to exactly the way things were before).

Vaulting wasn't the answer, but atleast you could earn new characters rather fast. This is going to slow the process down again. The simplest option was the one they purposely avoided. 

revskip

DyingLegend said:

So I thought about it and who ever decided this was a good idea needs to be fired immediately. This is so unimaginably dumb. You basically took something that was working ( small packs with limited characters) and completely screwed it up. The main reason that was done in the first place was to stop dilution! The one thing you guys didn't want! So WHY did you think that was a good idea to go back to the way things were!?! This game takes two steps forward and then 100 steps backwards! Was it so difficult to just do a new and a classic vault and change up the classics rotating some in and out? Or was that too easy of a solution? This game infuriates me. 

No VIP purchase for me this month or in the future and I'm going to start hoarding until another solution comes down the pipeline. I don't want to start pulling king pins again or Electras. 

I'd imagine it was because people who didn't fully understand the benefits vaulting provided cried and gnashed their teeth very vocally about it.  Also and more importantly demi thinks they can make more money with this system.  

PresidentDoom2020

while dilution isn't great I'm a fan of some of the characters in the game besides just for their mechanics so I'd rather have the possibility to draw characters I actually like instead of being coerced in to having to deal with poop characters no one asked for like Mordo clogging up one of the slots of the latest 12 and being gagged whenever I raise my grievances in this police state you call a forum, you leptons.

Jaedenkaal

DyingLegend said:

Vaulting wasn't the answer, but atleast you could earn new characters rather fast. This is going to slow the process down again. The simplest option was the one they purposely avoided. 

It's going slow it down by half the current rate, which is still something like double the rate before vaulting, and is fixed, instead of steadily dropping. Those are new-character-from-token-acquisition rates we haven't seen since there were only 24 4* characters in the whole game.

Pants1000

It's funny to me how drastically different the reactions are to this.  Personally I liked vaulting and had adjusted to it.  There are good things and bad things about this though, so I'm fine with the solution.

I think the biggest problem with the pre-vaulting situation was that it took way too long to cover a new character.  The biggest problem with vaulting was that it was extremely difficult to get covers for old characters.  This new solution helps fix both of those, so I think it is a good compromise.

People need to realize that the devs are trying to run a business here, so they aren't going to implement the player-suggested solutions that would hurt the bottom line.  The randomness in draws keeps people spending, so they can only remove so much.  Announcing changes far in advance also causes people to stop spending until the change is in effect, so it would be bad for business to announce changes far in advance.  48 hours may work to give hoarders a chance to decide if they want to pull before or after, but the devs also want to discourage hoarding, so I wouldn't expect them to change policy to accommodate hoarders.

DarthDeVo

Finally getting to the end of this thread. I have... feelings about this change. Overall, I think they're positive. 

Back when vaulting was implemented, I had just recently rostered all the 4* that were available at that point. I think the 4* that had the most covers had somewhere in the neighborhood of six to eight. Most of them had only one to three or so. 

Initially, I didn't like the idea of vaulting. It felt like I had finally gotten to a new tier, only to have 75 percent of it locked away. I'm pretty sure I was more ticked off about it at the time than I'm letting on right now. 

I think it was about a month after vaulting hit that I champed my first 4*, maybe 1.5 months. Two more followed fairly quickly, and a steady stream after that. 

As vaulting wore on, I came to accept it and worked within it to continue advancing my roster. I'm up 13 4* champs, with two more fully covered at Level 250. If I do well with placement/progression in Meet Rocket and Groot, they'll get champed too. That will leave Coulson, G4mora, Sandman and Vulture of the newest 12 the only ones not champed. In order, they have 10, 9, 5 and 7 covers.

Would I have made this much progress without vaulting? No way. In that respect, I'm definitely thankful for it. 

But, I'm also looking forward to the opportunity to getting some of my older characters covered and leveled (hopefully) a little more evenly. 

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned being in the sweet spot in terms of timing for these changes. I think that would apply to me too. I got a jump start entering 4* land, and now I can get the chance to have those champs hopefully help pull some of their compatriots up from the bottom. 

I was hoarding anyway until 5tar-Lord and Doc Ock leave Latest, and still plan to do so. I'd like to get more 5pidey covers, and am hoping the newer 5*s will be better than 5tar-Lord and Ock. So it might be a bit until I see some benefits while drawing tokens in the 4* tier.

I'm close to getting all my underleveled characters to their max level. I know some people like to take a character from 70 to 270 or from 120 to 270 in one shot, but for me seeing such a big number is a bit of a psychological barrier, so I try to level characters as much as I can along the way. So I don't really consider my ISO debt or character champing/leveling strategy to have really changed.

I'm already seeing a slight difference in the 3* tier though. That tier had become really lopsided, with IM40 at Level 250 and poor Hood at Level 180. So hopefully I can get some more balance there.

Ultimately, I'll probably have to wait until I crack that hoard in about two months to really get a flavor for this new system, but I'm cautiously optimistic. Also would have liked to have seen the option for more stores, but the devs (or bean counters) seem opposed to that, so this might be the best compromise. 

smkspy

I think I'm more worried about the next rug pull. I no longer need to champ my iron fist over Xavier or any other unvaulted character. But what if they decide to vault 20 of them and I've been champing the wrong ones during this period.

Who knows what crazy move they'll pull next...just glad that I took advantage of vaulting while the getting was good.