**** Mockingbird (Bobbi Morse) ****

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  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2017
    DrDevilDinosaur said:
    Pylgrim said:
    DrDevilDinosaur said:
    Have Devs forgotten their colour wheel again? Bombshell reads like a Black ability.

    Outside of that, looks like some interesting new passives. Looks like her Yellow is why Colossus got reworked.
    How is a single-target, high-damage power not red? I guess an argument could be made for it being black due to the possibility of self-damage, but it doesn't mean that it is not red.

    Red is generally attacks with condition to deal increased damage, cf. Rocket Punch, Dive Bomb, Combined Forces, etc.

    Black is generally powerful attacks with some drawback, cf. Court Death, Goblin Glider, Overdrive , etc.

    In particular, I would compare Bombshell to Kate Bishop's Looking For Trouble. The later deals its damage up front and then the player must remove their own CD or take damage. Bombshell creates two CD's but if one of those is removed, then the ability deals less damage to the enemy and also deals damage to Bobbi. That's a text book definition of high risk/high reward that is the hall mark of Black abilities.

    There are self-damaging red skills like Juggernaut's Headbutt or OML's red passive, ally-damaging ones like Supernova, and conditional ally damage with Symbiote Scythes or 3* Hulk's Smash.  Conditional self-damage isn't much of a stretch.
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,277 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dayv said:
    KGB said:
    That Yellow power is going to have the potential to create infinite loops.

    Imagine opposing teams both with MockingBird + someone with board shake (Juggs/Loki etc). One fired power can cause the 2 Mockingbirds to endlessly trigger the board shake skill that creates a match 4+.

    Obviously it's a long shot that it continues for more than an iteration or two but it's definitely possible.

    Also curious how this interacts with the Professor and Teen Jean's passive (ie which goes first) in cases of match 5's.

    KGB

    P.S. Now we have confirmation of why Colossus's power was changed.


    By the same token, any tile cascade has the potential to be infinite.  It just won't happen in actual human experience.

    on top of that, we don't know if passives will trigger from passively-triggered skills at all -- will they set off Doctor Strange, for example?
    I hope Strange's passive fires when the free enemy power fires. That can be easily tested with Colossus Fastball as I assume both are treated the same.

    I realize any tile cascade can be infinite but this is different in that's it can be infinite due to passive powers. Consider 3* Hulk's Anger. It's possible now to damage Hulk with a power. On his turn the Anger cd(s)  resolve creating a match 4/5. That triggers Mockingbird which fires a power that damages Hulk that creates another cd that could create another match 4/5 etc (assumes the new cd would resolve now if it's below the current one).

    Just saying this power has the potential to create infinite loops where other passive's do not. I bet there are a ton of quirks related to this power in terms of downing characters via the passive power activating and ordering.

    KGB
  • MadScientist
    MadScientist Posts: 317 Mover and Shaker

    The following characters have exactly one active power in each color when paired with Mockingbird, so you will know which one is fired by Mockingbird's passive:

    Venom (Eddie Brock)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mr. Fantastic (Reed Richards)<br>Wasp (Janet Van Dyne)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Spider-Man (Back in Black)<br>Wasp (Janet Van Dyne)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Storm (Classic)<br>Wasp (Janet Van Dyne)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius)<br>Wasp (Janet Van Dyne)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rocket & Groot (Most Wanted)<br>Wasp (Janet Van Dyne)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Quake (Daisy Johnson)<br>Wasp (Janet Van Dyne)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rocket & Groot (Awesome Mix Volume 2)<br>Wolverine (X-Force)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Daken (Dark Avengers)<br>Wolverine (X-Force)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Daken (Classic)<br>Black Bolt (Inhuman King)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mr. Fantastic (Reed Richards)<br>Black Panther (Civil War)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Beast (Classic)<br>Black Panther (Civil War)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Invisible Woman (Classic)<br>The Hulk (Bruce Banner)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Beast (Classic)<br>The Hulk (Bruce Banner)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Invisible Woman (Classic)<br>Spider-Man (Back in Black)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  The Hood (Classic)<br>Spider-Man (Back in Black)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  Luke Cage (Hero For Hire)<br>Spider-Man (Back in Black)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers)<br>Bullseye (Dark Avengers)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  Spider-Man (Classic)<br>Daken (Dark Avengers)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Storm (Mohawk)<br>Storm (Classic)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The Hood (Classic)<br>Storm (Classic)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Luke Cage (Hero For Hire)<br>Storm (Classic)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers)<br>Daken (Classic)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Storm (Mohawk)<br>Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius)&nbsp; The Hood (Classic)<br>Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius)&nbsp; Luke Cage (Hero For Hire)<br>Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius)&nbsp; Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers)<br>The Hood (Classic)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  Rocket & Groot (Most Wanted)<br>The Hood (Classic)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  Quake (Daisy Johnson)<br>The Hood (Classic)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  Rocket & Groot (Awesome Mix Volume 2)<br>Luke Cage (Hero For Hire)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rocket & Groot (Most Wanted)<br>Luke Cage (Hero For Hire)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Quake (Daisy Johnson)<br>Luke Cage (Hero For Hire)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rocket & Groot (Awesome Mix Volume 2)<br>Quicksilver (Pietro Maximoff)&nbsp;&nbsp; Spider-Man (Classic)<br>Rocket & Groot (Most Wanted)&nbsp;&nbsp;  Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers)<br>Spider-Man (Classic)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  Blade (Modern)<br>Spider-Man (Classic)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  Moon Knight (Marc Spector)<br>Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers)&nbsp; Quake (Daisy Johnson)<br>Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers)&nbsp; Rocket & Groot (Awesome Mix Volume 2)

  • himatako
    himatako Posts: 269 Mover and Shaker
    edited July 2017
    KGB said:
    I hope Strange's passive fires when the free enemy power fires. That can be easily tested with Colossus Fastball as I assume both are treated the same.

    I think I tried this before and I remembered Strange's yellow didn't fire when I did it. I could be wrong and since they've made some modifications to Colossus' Fastball, so it might be better if someone try this again. 

    In any case, I'm really excited to see how good she'll be in the game. Looks like an interesting support character, albeit a bit hard to control since her passive activates a random power.

    There are powers that you'd rather want them fired when the time is right to maximize its effect or powers that if you time it wrong it mess up your setup. Take Hulkbuster's red for example, if it's fired, even though it doesn't cost you AP, its effect will drain all of your red AP anyway. And a power that requires you to choose a tile(s) or a character will now be decided randomly if fired by her passive, which means more randomness. 

    On top of all this, her passive activates when the opponent makes a match of 4 or more, not you. This means it's kinda out of your control. So even though she's a support character like Coulson, it seems to me that you have to be more careful when you want to come up with a team for her. 
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    MadScientist said:

    The following characters have exactly one active power in each color when paired with Mockingbird, so you will know which one is fired by Mockingbird's passive:

    [snip]
    The power description just says "fire a random friendly power"; not "fire a random friendly power of the same colour as the match-4".  So I don't think this list is particularly relevant.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    himatako said:

    There are powers that you'd rather want them fired when the time is right to maximize its effect or powers that if you time it wrong it mess up your setup. Take Hulkbuster's red for example, if it's fired, even though it doesn't cost you AP, its effect will drain all of your red AP anyway. And a power that requires you to choose a tile(s) or a character will now be decided randomly if fired by her passive, which means more randomness. 

    On top of all this, her passive activates when the opponent makes a match of 4 or more, not you. This means it's kinda out of your control. So even though she's a support character like Coulson, it seems to me that you have to be more careful when you want to come up with a team for her. 
    Definitely all true. She could also randomly fire a lethal Overdrive. You get 9 red AP for free, I guess?

    That said, maybe all that really means is she's not a great teammate for Hulkbuster. Not a dealbreaker by any means. On the other hand, Firing either of Red Hulk's powers for free seems like a pretty good deal.

    Combining with Carol and baiting the AI to make match-4s in its strongest color also seems hilarious.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    DrDevilDinosaur said:
    Have Devs forgotten their colour wheel again? Bombshell reads like a Black ability.

    Outside of that, looks like some interesting new passives. Looks like her Yellow is why Colossus got reworked.
    Agree with others that red has a history of self damage or not entirely beneficial effects/riders. Headbutt, Rampage, Smash, Supernova, Best There Is, Unibeam, Symbiote Scythes, Psychic Flames.

    The power itself also typifies the generic destructive tendencies of Red more than the ruthlessness of Black. I'd probably have been ok with it either way, actually, although B/Y/P would have made an odd color combination for someone who is clearly not a crime lord (yes, I know C&D aren't crime-lords either).
  • CrookedKnight
    CrookedKnight Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    True, but they got their powers from mad scientist drug dealers conducting human experiments so I'd say it still works. 
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
    CrookedKnight said:
    True, but they got their powers from mad scientist drug dealers conducting human experiments so I'd say it still works. 
    Well, yellow for light, black for dark, and purple... for strategic use of the other 2 powers. Purple is a strategy power, right?
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    jamesh said:
    MadScientist said:

    The following characters have exactly one active power in each color when paired with Mockingbird, so you will know which one is fired by Mockingbird's passive:

    [snip]
    The power description just says "fire a random friendly power"; not "fire a random friendly power of the same colour as the match-4".  So I don't think this list is particularly relevant.
    Good catch, I didn't notice that. So you definitely want to hoard 6 ap for each color, but don't need to bring rainbow active colors. Makes it much more usable than what I had in mind. So a team with lots of passives help you narrow down which actives are chosen. If you can get Black Bolts yellow out so it can't fire again, then it defaults to fire his green. If you already have 6 ap in each...
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2017
    jamesh said:
    MadScientist said:

    The following characters have exactly one active power in each color when paired with Mockingbird, so you will know which one is fired by Mockingbird's passive:

    [snip]
    The power description just says "fire a random friendly power"; not "fire a random friendly power of the same colour as the match-4".  So I don't think this list is particularly relevant.
     No, what I believe the OP was saying was if you bring one or two of these characters along in a fight and Mockingbird's yellow procs, you know for sure it will be one power or the other that fires for free. If you bring 4* Cyclops and Kate Bishop, for instance, that's six possible powers that could fire.

    I think OP's list was just a way of saying, "Hey, if you want to cut down on the randomness or guesswork of which powers will fire, bring these guys along."
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    If you plan to build up AP just to hold onto it, in case the enemy gets a match-4 or greater, than I think you would have been much further ahead to just build AP to fire powers like normal. Sure it will be fun to have it as an objective during the match, but it's probably much more efficient to just accept it as a surprise when it happens.

    Like G4mora's insta-kill, you probably shouldn't plan your whole match around getting it to fire off. Sure it's great when get to a point during the match where it's possible, but making it your main objective could get you wiped out.

    Her abilities look cool, there's lots of team combo's that are starting to make sense.
    C4rol like always, use her yellow to insta-resolve MB's red cd's for max damage + boost specials. MB's purple to gain tons of your strongest color on top of what Carol is getting from enemy matches.

  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    Four-star Loki except she can actually do damage. Yikes.

    I foresee seeing her and C4rol together ad nauseum in SHIELD sim. Yay.
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    DarthDeVo said:
    jamesh said:
    MadScientist said:

    The following characters have exactly one active power in each color when paired with Mockingbird, so you will know which one is fired by Mockingbird's passive:

    [snip]
    The power description just says "fire a random friendly power"; not "fire a random friendly power of the same colour as the match-4".  So I don't think this list is particularly relevant.
     No, what I believe the OP was saying was if you bring one or two of these characters along in a fight and Mockingbird's yellow procs, you know for sure it will be one power or the other that fires for free. If you bring 4* Cyclops and Kate Bishop, for instance, that's six possible powers that could fire.

    I think OP's list was just a way of saying, "Hey, if you want to cut down on the randomness or guesswork of which powers will fire, bring these guys along."
    The list was for "one active power in each colour", which I'm saying is irrelevant.  If you had the same number of active powers but they were concentrated on fewer colours, you'd have exactly the same amount of randomness.

    The only way you could know for certain which power would be fired would be if your team had only a single active power.  But since Mockingbird herself has two active powers, this is never the case.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    jamesh said:
    DarthDeVo said:
    jamesh said:
    MadScientist said:

    The following characters have exactly one active power in each color when paired with Mockingbird, so you will know which one is fired by Mockingbird's passive:

    [snip]
    The power description just says "fire a random friendly power"; not "fire a random friendly power of the same colour as the match-4".  So I don't think this list is particularly relevant.
     No, what I believe the OP was saying was if you bring one or two of these characters along in a fight and Mockingbird's yellow procs, you know for sure it will be one power or the other that fires for free. If you bring 4* Cyclops and Kate Bishop, for instance, that's six possible powers that could fire.

    I think OP's list was just a way of saying, "Hey, if you want to cut down on the randomness or guesswork of which powers will fire, bring these guys along."
    The list was for "one active power in each colour", which I'm saying is irrelevant.  If you had the same number of active powers but they were concentrated on fewer colours, you'd have exactly the same amount of randomness.

    The only way you could know for certain which power would be fired would be if your team had only a single active power.  But since Mockingbird herself has two active powers, this is never the case.
    Bah, I did gloss over that. 
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2017
    jamesh said:
    The only way you could know for certain which power would be fired would be if your team had only a single active power.  But since Mockingbird herself has two active powers, this is never the case.
    You could also load up on powers that can't be fired if they're already in effect (Rocket's Pack as only one example) or that switch to a passive after you use them (Don't Touch That Button).
  • kyo28
    kyo28 Posts: 161 Tile Toppler
    40 years of Mocking Bird history in Marvel and you guys manage to choose the worst and most offensive of all her covers.

    I mean, seriously, is Marvel choosing these for you or are you guys doing this on purpose. Because I don't feel enticed to roster her. Hopefully this cover will get switched out by a better one in the future. But for now I'm gonna skip her.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    @fahq1977, thanks for that, especially points 4 and 5. I was curious how that power worked in action. 

    Most times the AI triggers a match 5 is through a cascade, so I was curious if as soon as the match happens, everything is put on pause while your power fires. Makes sense that it waits until all tile moving is done to fire friendly powers. 

    I knew they modified tile selecting powers to auto pick the tile(s), so thought it would be weird to have the AI cascade into a match 5, then all the sudden something like GSBW's purple power changes six random green tiles for you. I figured there had to be some way they would address that.

    I wonder if it's just coincidence you haven't had a tile picking power proc yet. 
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Try her with 3* Steve Rogers and 3* Black Widow. If it really won't use choice-required powers, you'll only ever see her own powers.

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