X-Men are back ?

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  • rastafari7
    rastafari7 Posts: 75 Match Maker
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    Sabretooth and Juggs for the variant.
    But I wish we could choose more than one from that very big list!
    Kitty,Gambit,Bishop,Cable,Nightcrawler,Rogue so many I want to see in this game lol.
  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
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    For those that are saying that X-Men never left, you are somewhat wrong. They weren't added to the game because conflict of rights on the characters, not because they were too many. Devs told us some while back that they wont develop anymore X-Men due to this, even if it was unofficial.
    Similar to why Deadpool movie never had an actual established X-Men, just a CGI Collosus and an unknown chick. 

    X-Men were added to Marvel Future Fight recently (Rogue being one of them - that is the reason I voted for Gambit, because he is not there either) so there is a bigger chance they would add some of them in the future.

    I would also like to see Mysterio, Kraven the Hunter, an usable Peter Parker and many others, but most of all, as an X-Men fan, I want to see the iconic duo: Gambit & Rogue ( the actual Rogue, not the stupid vesion from the movies)
  • Captain_Carlman
    Captain_Carlman Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
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    I voted Black Cat and a variant of Devil Dinosaur because I'm dumb as hell.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,177 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ezrius said:
    I voted for Nightcrawler, just as I have voted for Nightcrawler in every previous poll he was available in and any other instance where a write-in was an option.

    It saddens me that movie rights can control so much of the decision making for things that aren't directly related to movies but affect the fans most of all.  The Marvel Heroes Omega console port removed all mentions of the Fantastic Four and Silver Surfer, and apparently the PC version will be removing the ability to obtain the characters moving forward starting July 1st.  I can only hope the X-Men never suffer a similar fate, but things like the recent lack of new X-Men in MPQ and their complete and utter absence in Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite (a series that started as X-Men vs Street Fighter) worry me immensely as an X-Men fan.

    Edit:  For what it's worth, for the new version of an existing, as much as I wanted to put an X-Men, I put Nova, because I want Richard Rider in the game.  If I chose an X-Men villain, it would have been Mr. Sinister.
    I've casually read a lot about this particular issue over the years. My memory could be fuzzy, but I don't know if anyone from Marvel has ever officially said on the record that as a company they're intentionally gimping the Fantastic Four and X-Men due to the fact that giving them promotion of any kind in any medium somehow benefits Fox on the big screen.

    However, that's definitely been the long standing rumor, and the examples you cite (and more) certainly makes it easy to make that argument.

    If that's true, that just completely blows my mind. People love these characters and can be very motivated to spend in order to obtain them. Why wouldn't you want to give people as many opportunities to give you as much money as possible? I mean, Marvel and Sony got something worked out for Spider-Man on the screen where it seems like all parties benefit. Not sure why they can't figure something out with Fox.

    I will freely admit I have no knowledge of what kind of deal Fox and Marvel have concerning these characters in terms of how much of the profits go to Fox instead of Marvel. It could be that Fox paid the one-time fee to use the characters for a determined amount of time, and that Marvel doesn't see anything from the Fox films. I do remember reading part of the reason the last FF movie was so sloppy was that they rushed it into production because the rights were about to revert to Marvel. Also, I think I read that basically the only reason we have the Netflix shows is because Fox essentially let their right to Daredevil expire and revert to Marvel.

    But still, that's just the films and TV, I think. Why **** your potential profits from other mediums like video games and comics by imposing a self-inflicted embargo? What makes it more confusing is that you see the X-Men cropping up in some places, but not others. Just doesn't seem to make sense.

    I think I also read another piece saying that in the comics they had essentially killed off most or all of the mutants (something about Terrigen Mists being dispersed worldwide and essentially being poisonous to all mutants) and trying to replace mutants with Inhumans and Nuhumans. The implication was that people would hopefully lose interest in mutants, which would translate to poorer performance at the box office for the Fox movies and then hopefully the rights would return to Marvel.

    The only problem was, comic book sales TANKED for Marvel with few X-Men titles, which had typically been some of their strongest performing titles. Hence the ResurreXion event that brought them back into prominence.

    How true is any of that? I don't know. Most pieces are speculation articles, but it sure does make for some interesting drama. I just wish they'd get over it so we can get our Nightcrawler, Gambit, Rogue, Angel, Kitty Pride, Cable and more.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,177 Chairperson of the Boards
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    That's right, Ike Perlmutter. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
  • D4Ni13
    D4Ni13 Posts: 745 Critical Contributor
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    BatteryHorse said: nu
    I don't want to get into this rabbit hole again, but it was reported a couple of years ago that Ike Perlmutter, the reclusive (many have also added petty, volatile and vindictive to his descriptors) CEO of Marvel Entertainment, was deliberately tanking all Marvel properties that weren't completely owned by Marvel.

    Ike Perlmutter is a really strange dude, and a simple Google search digs up all kinds of weird stories.  He's widely celebrated for bringing Marvel back from the brink of bankruptcy and ultimately selling it to Disney for $4 billion dollars.  He was initially in charge of all of Marvel but he and Kevin Feige hated each other.  Feige won the power struggle and Perlmutter was given Marvel Entertainment, which is basically everything that isn't the movies.  That was a couple of years ago.

    From that point on Perlmutter decided he wanted to do everything he could to make sure any property not wholly owned by Marvel suffered in hopes that the rights holders would release those rights.  They've dramatically reduced toy production, and you'll notice far fewer X-men or Fantastic Four or Spider-man toys, even though Marvel controls the merchandising rights.  They killed Wolverine in the comics to try to sabotage Fox's huge cash cow.  They cancelled comic runs that had run for decades (and those runs were struggling financially anyway).  At Marvel even poor comic titles were considered worth the investment since they were obliquely idea factories for the profitable movies, but they're not interested in generating ideas for another studio's movies.

    MPQ has to submit character ideas to Marvel before they can develop them, and presumably they have a good relationship.  MPQ commented that they had a little fun with Hawkguy and Marvel was open to it, and they created Peggy as an original addition to the game.  Marvel is open to innovation, but there's a clear mandate about what they want in their game and what they don't.

    Interestingly, there have been rumours that Perlmutter has stepped aside/semi-retired.  He's old and has some really, really weird legal battles going on that are starting to involve Marvel and Marvel staff and emails in embarrassing ways.  It's a story too weird for TV, but it's real.  If Perlmutter is out there may be room for new philosophies and new rules.  Hard to say. 

    The devs could throw us off by releasing even one X-man or X-man villain.  Just one in two years, just so that people didn't feel like there was a blanket prohibition.  There are so many glaring omissions that it defies belief that they're just coincidentally skipped.  When you're cranking out Riri and Spider-woman and Mordo and a whole holy host of variants and completely ignoring one of the most popular and storied segments of your franchise, it's not an accident.
    Well I hope your right, that he stepped aside. This battle on character rights is tiresome and the biggest losers are the fans.

    Anyways, I feel that something IS going on, since Marvel Future Fight brought X-Men in their game this couple of months. And if one Marvel game has the rights to use them, so does MPQ.
  • Ezrius
    Ezrius Posts: 150 Tile Toppler
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    DarthDeVo said:
    Ezrius said:
    ...snip...

    It saddens me that movie rights can control so much of the decision making for things that aren't directly related to movies but affect the fans most of all.  The Marvel Heroes Omega console port removed all mentions of the Fantastic Four and Silver Surfer, and apparently the PC version will be removing the ability to obtain the characters moving forward starting July 1st.  I can only hope the X-Men never suffer a similar fate, but things like the recent lack of new X-Men in MPQ and their complete and utter absence in Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite (a series that started as X-Men vs Street Fighter) worry me immensely as an X-Men fan.

    ...snip...
    I've casually read a lot about this particular issue over the years. My memory could be fuzzy, but I don't know if anyone from Marvel has ever officially said on the record that as a company they're intentionally gimping the Fantastic Four and X-Men due to the fact that giving them promotion of any kind in any medium somehow benefits Fox on the big screen.

    ...snip...

    The only problem was, comic book sales TANKED for Marvel with few X-Men titles, which had typically been some of their strongest performing titles. Hence the ResurreXion event that brought them back into prominence.

    ...snip..
    Listen, I don't want to go crazy getting into it, and I hope you'll be okay with me only including a small part of your post that I'd like to directly address (I don't like cluttering up the forum with gigantic walls of quotes within quotes in order to respond to two sentences, etc).  I want to touch on the two paragraphs, particularly, though, and the new quote system drives me bananas with formatting.

    Marvel would not benefit from officially stating, "Oh yeah, we're tanking your favorite characters and trying to minimize their exposure in order to devalue them."  Directly admitting to that would be a complete insane blunder from a business standpoint, and further alienate fans.  It would literally be a Marvel spokesperson saying, "We don't care what you want; you have to learn to like what we want you to like."  Not issuing an official statement doesn't mean they aren't doing it.  It benefits them because if they limit exposure of the characters to weaken recognition and popularity, they would hope to have the X-Men movie franchise have missteps similar to the Fantastic Four.  Put characters in video games not to satisfy returning fans, you already have them, put characters you want to promote (from movie rights you control) in the game to expose and familiarize potential new fans to them in the hopes that they'll like the characters and later be interested when they hear about upcoming movies featuring them.  It's all about those new fans, not the existing ones.

    As far as X-Men titles tanking... it really depends on when you're talking about.  I thought the early 2000s were crazy for X-Men.  Astonishing is highly regarded.  I religiously read New X-Men (even though virtually all of those characters have been killed off or have faded into obscurity).  Rogue's X-Men squad leading into and through Messiah Complex was great.  Wolverine and the X-Men was fun and refreshing for a while.  But, how can you expect sales not to tank when you've had Jean dead for over a decade.  You killed Charles (twice?), now for several years.  You killed Scott.  You killed/metamorphasized/neutered/something-or-othered Warren.  You killed Kurt for several years.  Beasts entire design changes every 2-5 years.  Wolverine is dead.  Maybe a personal one, but you killed Madrox Prime like it didn't even matter.  Heck, isn't even Omega Red gone?  You've got multiple versions of all your killed off characters running around trying to serve as stand-ins.  Plus, 2005-2015 might as well be like, "the Great Pirate Era" as far as the comic book industry is concerned, right?  Also, Decimation, AvX, IvX... every 3-5 years right now Mutants are going extinct" and it becomes a convenient way to write off or kill off more characters.

    I'll also briefly acknowledge everything @BatteryHorse said about Perlmutter.  If he is taking a bit of a step back, the sudden resurgence of the X-Men and ResurreXion might not be a coincidence.  I won't lie to you, though.  As an X-Men fan, ResurreXion had me excited before exact details of each book started surfacing.  Generation X, for example, really had me amped up until the cast was announced.  I thought maybe this was the time for Surge, Dust, Mercury, Hellion, Anole, and some others from the New X-Men era would resurface, but it looks like they'll continue to just quietly exist at the Institute with occasional background cameos.  I don't know, it just seems to me like they're been taking characters I love off the table and replacing them with characters I just don't care about for years.

    That ended up more of a rant than I wanted it to, sorry.
  • Khanwulf
    Khanwulf Posts: 103 Tile Toppler
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    Thanks for exposition on Perlmutter, that's interesting and further detail to the strong internet rumor over the years.

    One thing that excites me about MPQ's relationship with Marvel *IS* their willingness to let Demiurge do new things like Peggy. I thought her design and background was a stroke of genius and if Marvel actually used her in their comics I'd be sorely tempted to buy that run (I buy zero comics, now). For example: used her to fix current issues with Cap, for example. *cough* 

    But back on topic, I voted for Omega-Red and Juggernaut. Red has always been a favorite... I even had an anthropomorphic shark character in Champions Online called "O-Megla Red". He's a hoot! 

    --Khanwulf
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
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    Speaking of X-Men being back, I didn't follow comics for awhile after AvX. I came back recently right around the new crossover where Doom becomes God. What happened to Hope? She was the "mutant messiah" and I haven't seen her at all. 

    It seems kind of in line with the above posts of Marvel sabotaging the mutants. The story line where Cyclops gathered up everyone he could find to protect Hope from Bastion was one of my all time favorites. I really thought the X books were going to new heights and then its kind of all went downhill from there with various killings of mutants that were more about "splash" than substance.
  • Chrono_Tata
    Chrono_Tata Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
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    Beer40 said:
    Speaking of X-Men being back, I didn't follow comics for awhile after AvX. I came back recently right around the new crossover where Doom becomes God. What happened to Hope? She was the "mutant messiah" and I haven't seen her at all. 

    It seems kind of in line with the above posts of Marvel sabotaging the mutants. The story line where Cyclops gathered up everyone he could find to protect Hope from Bastion was one of my all time favorites. I really thought the X books were going to new heights and then its kind of all went downhill from there with various killings of mutants that were more about "splash" than substance.
    Actually this is just a thing that Marvel does with all their characters across the board, not just X-Men.They killed off Bruce Banner (replaced with Cho). Killed War Machine. Killed Tony Stark (replaced with Riri). Depowered Thor for a while and replaced with Jane Foster. Depowered Cap and replaced with Falcap, then bring him back as a Hydra version. So if you take them killing off/replacing characters as a sign of sabotaging the IP, then evidently they must be trying to sabotage the Avengers as well, which is clearly not the case.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,177 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017
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    Listen, I don't want to go crazy getting into it, and I hope you'll be okay with me only including a small part of your post that I'd like to directly address (I don't like cluttering up the forum with gigantic walls of quotes within quotes in order to respond to two sentences, etc).  I want to touch on the two paragraphs, particularly, though, and the new quote system drives me bananas with formatting.

    Marvel would not benefit from officially stating, "Oh yeah, we're tanking your favorite characters and trying to minimize their exposure in order to devalue them."  Directly admitting to that would be a complete insane blunder from a business standpoint, and further alienate fans.  It would literally be a Marvel spokesperson saying, "We don't care what you want; you have to learn to like what we want you to like."  Not issuing an official statement doesn't mean they aren't doing it.  It benefits them because if they limit exposure of the characters to weaken recognition and popularity, they would hope to have the X-Men movie franchise have missteps similar to the Fantastic Four.  Put characters in video games not to satisfy returning fans, you already have them, put characters you want to promote (from movie rights you control) in the game to expose and familiarize potential new fans to them in the hopes that they'll like the characters and later be interested when they hear about upcoming movies featuring them.  It's all about those new fans, not the existing ones.

    As far as X-Men titles tanking... it really depends on when you're talking about.  I thought the early 2000s were crazy for X-Men.  Snip...
     No worries, I agree. 

    You're right, it would not necessarily be good for them to make such a direct statement. My point was more that there's been a lot of behind-the-scenes talk and off-the-record statements, nothing officially documented.

    Not even a PR-friendly statement, something along the lines of, "At Marvel, we have a large stable of characters we've developed over the decades fans have grown to love. But times change, and our writers have some great ideas for new characters, characters we hope people will love as much as our more established characters. After all, those characters were new characters once upon a time too. So for now, we're choosing to give these characters a bit more of the spotlight."

    And when I said I read that their comics were tanking, I purely meant from a sales point of view, not a creative one. Like I said, I've only been casually following this whole situation. I'm a big fan of the MCU movies and TV shows and other Marvel movies in general. Loved the old X-Men and Spider-Man animated series from the early to mid-'90s and the video games from that era. And I have a general knowledge of many characters, but I've never really been a devoted comics reader/subscriber. I mean, I would say I have more knowledge than is common, but wouldn't consider myself an expert either. 

    Well, I've derailed this thread enough. I'll try to refrain from getting any further off topic. To (kind of) get things back on track, I'll just say I hope they can find a way to reincorporate the X-Men into this game. They could probably almost go a year with introducing nothing but new (no variants) X-Men characters alone. 
  • Darknes21
    Darknes21 Posts: 321 Mover and Shaker
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    Did the X-men ever leave? If I was a mod this topic would be moved to characters section....we can't have the General discussion section being over loaded! @Ducky
  • liminal_lad
    liminal_lad Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
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    Darknes21 said:
    Did the X-men ever leave? If I was a mod this topic would be moved to characters section....we can't have the General discussion section being over loaded! @Ducky
    I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not...
  • zaku
    zaku Posts: 43 Just Dropped In
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    Chrono_Tata said:
    Actually this is just a thing that Marvel does with all their characters across the board, not just X-Men.They killed off Bruce Banner (replaced with Cho). Killed War Machine. Killed Tony Stark (replaced with Riri). Depowered Thor for a while and replaced with Jane Foster. Depowered Cap and replaced with Falcap, then bring him back as a Hydra version. So if you take them killing off/replacing characters as a sign of sabotaging the IP, then evidently they must be trying to sabotage the Avengers as well, which is clearly not the case.
    I, for one, thorougly enjoyed those comics. Even though there's something to be said for classics, it's super neat to see someone else come in and try to fill legendary roles. I think it's a great tool to help Marvel garner more hardcore support for the original heroes and get fringe interest through representation

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