Wording on cards vs rules

TIMEWARPTIMEWARP Posts: 13 Just Dropped In
Dear Devs, 
Words have meaning. Especially Magic words. They carry rules bagage.
'Summoning' is not the same as having 'something enter the battlefield' and is not the same as 'casting'. A 'spell' is everything, not just non-creature and non-support card.

Please fix the following:
1)when a token creature enters the battlefield, have it trigger cards that care about things entering the battlefield. Example: Era of Innovation doesnt trigger when a token enters the battlefield. It should.
The same goes for Molten Nursery.
2) if MTGPQ doesnt want it to work that way on purpose. USE the right words. Like "when you summon" instead.
3) when you steal a creature, it doesnt enter the battlefield. It was already there. Dont have those creatures re-trigger their etb triggers.

Thank you.

Comments

  • LaeuftbeidirLaeuftbeidir Posts: 1,838 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017
    Althought I totally agree with you in general, and see this as a part of a bigger problem  (there are tons of other examples of misleading wording, not to mention the grammar mistakes), I don't get your number one example -
    Era of innovation triggers, when a creature with artificier enters the battlefield - as far as I know there are no such tokens. Molten Nursery triggers correctly, when a colorless creature (token) enters the battlefield (Saheeli machine gun) .
    Point three didn't even come to my mind, but you're totally right. A lot of card texts need to be revised to give clarity, especially with +1k cards
  • SarahschmaraSarahschmara Posts: 554 Critical Contributor
    AFAIK, creatures' ETB effects didn't trigger when stolen (although they briefly triggered when returned--thankfully that's been fixed!).

    Creature tokens will trigger effects on decoction module (and colorless creature tokens will trigger sram's effect).  

    I haven't experienced the issues you list recently; can you elaborate?
  • MatthewMatthew Posts: 597 Critical Contributor
    AFAIK, creatures' ETB effects didn't trigger when stolen (although they briefly triggered when returned--thankfully that's been fixed!).
    This isn't entirely true. I don't have Exert Influence, so I can't speak to whether or not this is the case with that card. But I used Lay Claim several times over the weekend and the ETB effects went off each time. I stole a Glorybringer that I had Cast Out, and when it popped over to my side the disable from that effect disappeared, which allowed it to immediately attack. I also took someone's Heart of Kiran, again under the effects of Cast Out, and when it showed up on my side, the card spat out four more Servos.

    I haven't used Confiscation Coup in a month or two, so I don't know if it has the same effect.
  • hawkyh1hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    my experience is creatures borrowed for the turn
    (eg turn against) don't trigger etb. creatures
    permanently changing sides (lay claim) does
    trigger etb.

    HH
  • octal9octal9 Posts: 589 Critical Contributor
    hawkyh1 said:
    my experience is creatures borrowed for the turn
    (eg turn against) don't trigger etb. creatures
    permanently changing sides (lay claim) does
    trigger etb.

    HH
    Yes, and this is due to how the game handles transfer of ownership
  • wereotterwereotter Posts: 2,053 Chairperson of the Boards

    Era of innovation triggers, when a creature with artificier enters the battlefield - as far as I know there are no such tokens.
    Era of Innivation also triggers upon a support entering the battlefield. I've not tested it personally, but I believe what's implied here is it is not triggering on support tokens like clues and servos. 
  • DaddyODaddyO Age Unconfirmed Posts: 51 Match Maker
    While we are having this conversation - we've lived with poorly worded secondary objectives that require us to "summon" a specific number of creatures. However, it never counts those creatures when you "summon" them with a spell or PW ability. In paper Magic the language is precise and concise. The words are literally part of the artwork on the card.  It's how a game this complex has managed to last this long. 
  • Pcell777Pcell777 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 51 Match Maker
    I'm surprised as well with the confusing wordings and texts they use.  MtG is one of the most popular card games, which prides itself with careful uses of wordings so the rules and effects of cards are clearly and concisely described.  If I am a higher up in MtG managment, I would never allow a mobile game like his to use MtG name without meeting the standard that MtG should hold.
  • stikxsstikxs Posts: 372 Mover and Shaker
    wereotter said:

    Era of innovation triggers, when a creature with artificier enters the battlefield - as far as I know there are no such tokens.
    Era of Innivation also triggers upon a support entering the battlefield. I've not tested it personally, but I believe what's implied here is it is not triggering on support tokens like clues and servos. 
    When I have used J2 #2 to create 4 clues while Era was on the board, it did correctly energize 2 for each clue. Don't know about servos or clues from cards rather than abilities.
  • PersonManPersonMan Age Unconfirmed Posts: 28 Just Dropped In
    Another example: Gideon 3 second ability, which exiles a creature and adds its attack and defense to other creatures you control, does't work if the target creature is disabled.  The target is still exiled.  But other creatures don't gain a bonus.  
  • TIMEWARPTIMEWARP Posts: 13 Just Dropped In
    As the OP, i see now that I was mistaken on Era of Innovation triggers. RTFC, i says "artificer creature" not any creature. So thats solved.

    Still, my point on not using careful wording stands. I think Matt Tabak or Eli , rules managers from WotC should look at this and consult. 
    Summoning isnt synonimous with casting, tokens are summoned too and also enter the battlefield. This also goes for supports. Creatures and supports when cast are spells also until they are on the battlefield, this should also be fixed.
    Also, token creatures should always be able to be 'unsummoned/bounced' just like regular creatures. Please fix.

    Also  temp steal doesnt cause ETB effects to trigger but permanent stealing like Lay Claim do. This is wrong and should be fixed.
  • NathanyelNathanyel Age Unconfirmed Posts: 19 Just Dropped In
    edited June 2017
    How about the fact that reinforced creatures count as multiples for Embalm or if named Scrapheap Scrounger, but NOT when bounced to hand/deck or in the case of Despoiler of Souls?

    Don't get me wrong—I understand limited screen space is why they went with the reinforcing idea instead of allowing a player to have 2-3 identical creatures on his/her field at a time. HOWEVER...once a creature has been reinforced, it should count as ONE CREATURE for ALL further purposes—embalm, in-graveyard effects, bounce, whatever—NOT as one creature for some, and multiple creatures for others.
  • DumasAGDumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    Nathanyel said:
    How about the fact that reinforced creatures count as multiples for Embalm or if named Scrapheap Scrounger, but NOT when bounced to hand/deck or in the case of Despoiler of Souls?

    Don't get me wrong—I understand limited screen space is why they went with the reinforcing idea instead of allowing a player to have 2-3 identical creatures on his/her field at a time. HOWEVER...once a creature has been reinforced, it should count as ONE CREATURE for ALL further purposes—embalm, in-graveyard effects, bounce, whatever—NOT as one creature for some, and multiple creatures for others.
    I see reinforcing as a bastardized version of the bestow mechanic from Theros. The exception is that the creature which reinforced doesn't stay in play when the whole thing does. I have less problem with this, unless you want the reinforced creature to remain reinforced in all areas (like Eternal).
  • NathanyelNathanyel Age Unconfirmed Posts: 19 Just Dropped In
    @DumasAG I don't have an issue with the reinforce mechanic; I actually think it's a very reasonable adaptation to the limited field size offered by a phone screen. What I DO have an issue with is that the reinforcing creature is sometimes still treated as a creature for bouncing/destruction/etc., and sometimes it's not.
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