Restrictive characters suck the fun out of this game.

DarthDeVo

I don't disagree with those who like the puzzle aspects of trying to put together a good team to counter some of the more frustrating combos out there. 

The only drawback is that if you want to perform well in this game and maximize your rewards, it requires you to finish matches as quickly and efficiently as possible.

If you're sitting at, say, 870 points in PvP, are you looking for opponent teams that provide a quirky challenge that forces you to contemplate team composition and then each individual move once you're in the match? Or do you want to find a team you can beat as quickly as possible by using your team that hits hardest and fastest? An extra 30 seconds or minute in a PvP match at that level could mean the difference between a 4* cover or coming out to see you've been knocked down to 750 points. 

About the only time we have the leisure to enjoy the puzzle aspect of the game is the Gauntlet, early-in-the-season Simulator, or boss events, where for the most part playing a little slower won't impact your rewards. 

Milk Jugz

I think somebody already posted those team in this thread but I ran Medusa, Carnage, Iceman in shield sim this season. Damn near god-mode, IMO

DaveR4470

OP tl;dr -- "I'm not good at strategy, so change the game to accomodate me."

ROTBI

I've been playing since nearly the beginning but seldom post due to the toxicity of forums.

That being said, many responses in this thread make me wonder why it is that people have such a hard time relating to someone else's perspective.

My roster has every character except 5-star Starlord, so I have options.  That being said this whole "counter X with X, lol" snarky response is severely lacking in perspective.  Even if the number IS many, the truth is not everybody used their tokens and CP on the same characters as you may have.  Considering all the backlash here about vaulting, you'd think that would be obvious.

I have Carol, Medusa, and Blade and they're not fully covered.  So regardless of my many other characters, the current meta is particularly punishing to me as well.

As the OP said, getting match 5s of your strongest color is considered 95+% of the time as optimal gameplay.  Taking hefty damage and giving free AP to your opponent for doing the same now is DRASTICALLY different.  If you can't admit it's restrictive, you're simply playing devil's advocate.

Do they need to be nerfed?  Probably not, but the current meta IS quite harsh for those who don't have the few specific counter-measures.

MarkersMake

ROTBI said:

As the OP said, getting match 5s of your strongest color is considered 95+% of the time as optimal gameplay.  Taking hefty damage and giving free AP to your opponent for doing the same now is DRASTICALLY different.  If you can't admit it's restrictive, you're simply playing devil's advocate.

Wait, are you talking about Medusa / Carol, or 4* Jean Grey? 

EDIT - nm, I re-read the OP. It's not just the recent players he has issues with, so Jean is also one that he doesn't like the mechanics of.  

Also, he's (very slightly) mistaken about the mechanics of Medusa - her countdown triggers when matched or destroyed, but her yellow passive only triggers when a special tile is matched (not destroyed). That may not be enough to leave room for a true counter, but it can be an important distinction in some games. 

As an aside, why isn't Strange on this list? He punishes you every time you use an ability, which is kind of the entire point of having characters and not just match damage. 

granne

ROTBI said:

Do they need to be nerfed?  Probably not, but the current meta IS quite harsh for those who don't have the few specific counter-measures.

But the point is that there are not just a few counter-measures.

Just off the top of my head: Gwenpool, Spiderwoman, Strange and Riri can remove attack tiles. Invisible woman can lock them. 3* Doc Oc can match them and make more of his own, or destroy them and deal damage. Squirrel Girl turns them into a better nuke.

Professor X, Howard and Miles can go invisible. Riri can go airborne and send her opponent up too. Colossus can send his teammates up.

A bunch of different characters have their strongest colour as a passive. Blade even benefits from leaving red on the board until there are plenty of strikes out.

Anyone who increases AP costs (Peggy), reduces their team's AP costs (4* Star-lord), or punishes firing powers (Strange) can be stunned.

There are hundreds of different combinations of characters. Yes, some are faster or stronger or more challenging than others, but there is not a single unbeatable combination in the game.

monsieurmojo

granne said:

There are hundreds of different combinations of characters. Yes, some are faster or stronger or more challenging than others, but there is not a single unbeatable combination in the game.

Except for Coulson and 5* Hawkeye. Bow to your new overlords.

Bowgentle

monsieurmojo said:

granne said:

There are hundreds of different combinations of characters. Yes, some are faster or stronger or more challenging than others, but there is not a single unbeatable combination in the game.

Except for Coulson and 5* Hawkeye. Bow to your new overlords.

My 5* Strange is having fun with Hawkeye.

Milk Jugz

monsieurmojo said:

granne said:

There are hundreds of different combinations of characters. Yes, some are faster or stronger or more challenging than others, but there is not a single unbeatable combination in the game.

Except for Coulson and 5* Hawkeye. Bow to your new overlords.

Gotta bring a good cheap stun for that combo!!! 

revskip

Elric VIII said:

Jarvind said:

 There was a long period where the sum total of "strategy" in MPQ was "GET DA GUD AP, SHOOTY DA BIG NUKE FOR WIN TIMES," and it seems like people still haven't gotten used to genuinely interesting character design. It requires you to play differently, yes, but it's entirely beatable.

Bloody Marvel said:

I also like the puzzle factor of fighting some of these characters, and deciding whether making that strongest color match against Carol is more beneficial than detrimental, or matching that special tile away weighs up against the health boost given by Medusa.

I want more characters with weird powers. It adds variety to the game. If it's only doing pure damage, the game gets boring quick.

Calnexin said:

There are ways to get around the tougher abilities, but you won't be able to if you don't have access to the characters that can do it.  That's just the nature of the game.  Taking away the annoying powers would be like taking the knights out of chess.

Wonko33 said:

The OP assumes that blindly matching titles is the fun of this game. The more puzzle aspects , the more I enjoy this game.



Well, since there seems to be a nice echo chamber going on in here, let me leave you with one parting remark directed at those that seem to think that having these characters and strategy are mutually exclusive:

If you play with them on your team (as seems to be the consensus to dealing with them) then you pretty much eliminate the need for strategy since they achieve the win almost entirely through passives. So congrats on that hilarious level of doublethink.

Sure if you leave off all the responses that invalidate your pet theory it must be right.  Plenty of counters not including those characters have been posted in this thread.  The echo chamber you speak of is just a group of people collectively telling you that maybe your position is short sighted because those characters that annoy actually have plenty of solid counters.  Passives in and of themselves require some strategy to make them work.  

One more team that I love just to troll with in Sim that many people won't have access to because he's limited is running Howard against Medusa,  

Howard/Blade/Agent Venom is a fun rainbow team to take apart Medusa/Carol/Jean.  Put Blade in front and leave the red alone while targeting Jean Grey who is the only one of the group with AOE who can actually hurt Howard.  Deny purple/green which you'll eventually use for Howard going invisible and either Howard or Blade's green depending on the situation.  Howard's blue can remove a pesky strike that Carol has buffed.  If the board is yellow rich have Agent Venom whisk the other two away to safety.  

OneLastGambit

Different but kind of related and (I think) the real reason for OP rant is this...ubituitous nature of certain characters. something I too find frustrating - not because it's tricky but because it spoils things for me as a player.

Shield SIM is infested with Medusa/Carol/Carnage/Wasp teams and its boring to fight the same team every time but what's more boring is being forced to use the same team all the time. As highlighted by other posters the only counter to these characters is themselves meaning you are faced with a choice - use a mirror team for the last 20 -30 matches of shield sim or hand the skip tax man your hard earned iso. Which would be fine except you get to a point (1700 points or so for me) where EVERY team is that team and I genuinely feel like stopping playing Sim forever (I don't, in case you were wondering).

Tl:dr - the problem isn't the characters it's the availability of those characters. I think that I made a post previously about how vaulting has made SIM and off season events a nightmare filled with carol/medusa and wasp as now everyone has them and it's the ONLY thing that works for them because they don't have access to older top tier characters.

Bulls

Access to older characters wouldnt change much as they are simply weaker than combinations of new ones

SpringSoldier

I think the problem with PVP, especially with SHIELD Sim, is that whatever team you use, you will leave as your defense team. Sure, you might beat the trio with different characters and a lot of strategy, but if you leave Agent Venom on defense, you're toast. In event rounds, you have some characters boosted, so there's variety, but in SHIELD Sim, everyone just follows the beaten path. If defense wasn't a thing and you could never drop ranks when your team got defeated, there would be a lot more combinations.

Megdar

Jarvind said:

3: Is there a match-3 in a color I have an active power for (including TU unless it's been fired already)? If yes, make that match. If no, move to 4.

4: Is there a match-3 in one of my "strong" colors? If yes, make it. If no, move to 5.

5: Make a match-3 at random.

Not exactly, by experience, it match one of it's color or TU. Whatever it is an active or if it used the TU is irrelevant. I seen the AI match the less powerfull color and passive many turn in a row.

If there is weight toward something, it does not seems high at all.

I've seen the AI do many TU match after using the TU. Or not matching his best color for a couple of turn in a row.

The AI is really really dumb...