Aha! I've Been Asking The Wrong Question!

shteev

Sarahschmara said:

Gun Bunny said:

That would be like buying a car, only to have the manufacturer come back to you two years later and ban you from using the trunk unless it's a Tuesday. It's arbitrary, and disingenuous to sell something and then constrict it's usage further after the sale. If the cards are seriously that broken, then they need to do the work and actually balance the game rather than just cutting the throats of players.

Sorry, Gun Bunny, I disagree.

A car is a physical object. So it would be more like if people bought a physical MtG card and then WotC banned it from tournament play.

What you are talking about is digital media. So it would be like people buying an ebook only to have it edited/removed afterwards. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html

The lesson that we don't actually own digital media, we only rent it, is easier to learn from other people. Sorry you were one of the ones that learned it the hard way.

You mention that example as if it's something we should get used to, rather than a clear example of consumer rights lagging behind technology in the digital age.

Sarahschmara

shteev said:

Sarahschmara said:

Gun Bunny said:

That would be like buying a car, only to have the manufacturer come back to you two years later and ban you from using the trunk unless it's a Tuesday. It's arbitrary, and disingenuous to sell something and then constrict it's usage further after the sale. If the cards are seriously that broken, then they need to do the work and actually balance the game rather than just cutting the throats of players.

Sorry, Gun Bunny, I disagree.

A car is a physical object. So it would be more like if people bought a physical MtG card and then WotC banned it from tournament play.

What you are talking about is digital media. So it would be like people buying an ebook only to have it edited/removed afterwards. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html

The lesson that we don't actually own digital media, we only rent it, is easier to learn from other people. Sorry you were one of the ones that learned it the hard way.

You mention that example as if it's something we should get used to, rather than a clear example of consumer rights lagging behind technology in the digital age.

Well. My example is almost 8 years old and is probably the most ironic example, but it's hardly the only one. Is it "fair?" No. But it I still think it's a bit silly to act shocked when it happens. What do you think will happen to everyone's digital cards when the servers get turned off? (Hopefully it's a long way off!)

Ohboy

shteev said:

Steeme said:loop

This is the reason why players with access to those cards thought the game was too easy, while players without those cards were terribly disadvantaged.

The very idea that the way to fix the game at this point was to leave broken cards in the game but limit the number of players who had access to them, rather than rebalancing them so everyone was playing a fair game, is the kind of self serving nonsense which could only be spread around by the type of player who paid money for Baral and Tezz 2 but refused to talk about how broken they were.

Yes, let's talk about rebalancing cards. Three cards of value have been rebalanced so far. Saheeli, kiora and baral. 

Exactly which side of the fence did you find yourself in the argument when those happened? How many who agree with you now complained about those nerfs? 

When the community rails against the changes, caving to their bad demands is exactly the opposite of self serving. 

As with all nerfs, it takes a big nerf for you guys to decide the moderate nerf was a better solution and consider that input insightful. 

murtagon

From my perspective the core issue with the game is the Dev's seem to be learning the wrong lessons.  This is based on a CCG - Collectible Card Game.  What do they do?  They make collecting a set realistically impossible.  This has been raised as a concern for over a year yet they keep restricting access to cards versus enabling access.  The reason they do this appears to be related to developing a stronger AI.

Another real issue is the proliferation of infinite loops.  They nerfed Baral to prevent the infinite loop he enables but other cards still have the problem.  Though it takes more specific builds - Kiora/N3 is typically involved since you need G/U to really abuse them.  But they followup the Baral nerf with the cycling nonsense which has destroyed the standard format, though like OB, this can only be abused on the player side so people seem to ignore this fundamental game balance issue.

Personally I like the concept of standard.  It could help generate new ideas and combos - which is the core of MTG game play.  Unfortunately the game itself has serious balance issues and a huge backlog of basic defects (try playing a servo deck...).  The standard could help address interaction issues between older broken cards and newer broken cards but each release keeps upping the power level so it really isn't doing much right now.  The unfortunate thing is people start acting like junkies they want the insane power and complain when the power level is reduced.  Its like people are chasing a power buzz.  Unfortunately this will eventually kill the game - and the Devs are in a difficult position since they continue to enable the power growth.  Why play with old cards when standard provides two card combos like Drake Haven (or Faith) + New Perspectives and 8 cards that cycle (nearly all common/uncommon), throw in Curator or Archive and then you really have a party. 

As far as folk calling others out for both using the broken aspects of the game and calling for a nerf on the functionality being used...I do not see a conflict here.  They play to win the most effective way they can, that does not mean they should turn a blind eye to how broken the game is getting.

Example the J1 exploit.  Sure I've used it.  The 4 hour timer on events and the amount of time it take to play some rounds it is just easier to take advantage of the J1 exploit and have a quick (by wall clock not round time) game.  Does that mean I try to hide that the exploit exists or that I blindly defend it...absolutely not.  Cycling is even worse in my mind since it is a clear design choice versus a defect (which has been known about for over a month and yet it still exists - J1 exploit).

PersonMan

Just speaking for myself, I stopped spending money for two reasons:

1) The introduction of Standard means I'm not buying cards when I spend money.  I'm renting them for 6-12 months until their block rotates out of Standard and become mostly useless.  The solution to this, for me, would be to have more unrestricted events with better rewards.  

2) I don't have a big collection of Rares, and few Mythics. But I only get a new Rare or better card maybe once every 2-4 weeks, even though I play daily and often place in top 25-ish of events.  Why spend money on crystals (which are packaged with everything) when they so rarely get you anything?   This could be fixed by the crafting system, IF the cocersion ratio is good.  In particular, conversion rate of Mythics and Masterpieces need to be 1 to 1, or 400 unobtainium for Masterpiece Collection will be ripoff.