Aha! I've Been Asking The Wrong Question!

RhysMarkov

Just wrapped up a match against a Nahiri deck that dropped a 1st turn Decimator and Suppression Bonds (sauce, for my cooked goose? Lol) and it came to me: I've been asking the wrong question! Instead of "Koth? Seriously?!" it should have been for the people that run Koth/Nahiri with Olivia/Decimator blah blah blah...

How often do -you- drop a first turn Decimator or Olivia, and how does that square up to how often you see the AI do it? 

Again, no salt here. I've been seeing those decks less frequently, and I've strategized for them, so they're not the issue they were. I'm just curious if there's a disconnect.

madwren

Back in the QB days I ran a Deploy Nahiri with Pig/Gisela/Colossus/AoI and it was not uncommon for me to get a first turn Deploy. It wasn't frequent, but it seemed to happen about as often as the AI would dump his hand as well.

khurram

About as often as the AI. I have cast my fair share of single turn deploys pigs and Olivias.

Dropspot

I am 100% sure I have a lot more Cascades than the AI simply because the AI only Cascades with luck, I on the other hand, am able plan for a Cascade.

losdamianos

turn one win

RhysMarkov

In the words of Dethklok: Brutal. Lol

Steeme

This is the reason why players with access to those cards thought the game was too easy, while players without those cards were terribly disadvantaged.

D3H then rebalanced the distribution of prizes so that that top coalitions didn't get all those combo cards as event rewards anymore, and instead broke the cards into "jewels" which could be used to acquire a random card from Elite packs.

Then the "Not another dime movement" started, one of the main complaints being that they were stripped of being guaranteed those top combo cards.

Now the new complaint is that "boosters suck" and that we should get easier, guaranteed access to the key cards.

It's just one big vicious cycle.

Sirchombli

@Steeme you hit it on the head. Can't make everybody happy. Especially magic players. Getting smashed first turn sucks, sure. But who doesn't enjoy brutalizing their opponent from the jump? 

[Deleted User]

I've started to just quit matches against Koth, Nahiri and Kiora whenever Ulrich of the Krallenhorde, Olivia, Hixus and that bloody Decimator Pig come out.
It's not fun to play against and I really doubt it's still fun for the players who still shamelessly spam them.

Steeme

@Sirchombli@Drycha

This is why the introduction to Standard in PVP events was so crucial.  Take the new Nodes of Power for example, just seeing my opponents play all those Legacy power cards is enough to make me throw up.  I knew what it was going to be like so I just ran standard cycle decks on all nodes for kicks.  Lost one match to a Drake Haven freeze, I was swiping too quickly in frustration as Kiora kept Moon/Frogging my Drakes on the node where we have to lose 4 or less creatures.

Gilesclone

Don't quit when Koth plays Olivia.  I had that happen to me today.  He played the red god, Olivia and Kozilek but I managed to kill them all with 13 life left and came back for the win.  Koth is like a 5 sided die.  If he rolls a 5 he gets 2 turns, if not he skips a turn.

Kiora is much scarier to me.  She can just lock you out of the game.

Gun Bunny

Steeme said:

This is the reason why players with access to those cards thought the game was too easy, while players without those cards were terribly disadvantaged.

D3H then rebalanced the distribution of prizes so that that top coalitions didn't get all those combo cards as event rewards anymore, and instead broke the cards into "jewels" which could be used to acquire a random card from Elite packs.

Then the "Not another dime movement" started, one of the main complaints being that they were stripped of being guaranteed those top combo cards.

Now the new complaint is that "boosters suck" and that we should get easier, guaranteed access to the key cards.

It's just one big vicious cycle.

Not Another Dime was not, in fact, a reaction to top coalitions no longer getting guaranteed mythics for finishing top 10/5 in events. You should know, you posted in the thread. It was the culmination of every bug on top of every other bug on top of devaluation of game currency on top of the dupe problem on top of a lack of clear communication from D3H on top of now (occurred after I first posted it, but only serves to reinforce even more my commitment to my stand) the gutting of libraries that people paid real money for from standard events (which are pretty much the only things with good rewards now). 

How many people paid good, REAL money for Olivia, Ulrich, Gisa and Geralf, Kozilek, Mirrorpool, etc.? How many of those people would have done so knowing that their future value would be incredibly diminished?

ZW2007-

Steeme said:

This is the reason why players with access to those cards thought the game was too easy, while players without those cards were terribly disadvantaged.

D3H then rebalanced the distribution of prizes so that that top coalitions didn't get all those combo cards as event rewards anymore, and instead broke the cards into "jewels" which could be used to acquire a random card from Elite packs.

Then the "Not another dime movement" started, one of the main complaints being that they were stripped of being guaranteed those top combo cards.

Now the new complaint is that "boosters suck" and that we should get easier, guaranteed access to the key cards.

It's just one big vicious cycle.

I don't really recall people complaining the game was too easy but I think you are confusing the problem here a little. Access to game breaking cards for top players shouldn't even be a concern. These game breaking cards/combos shouldn't be a thing in the first place. The game needs to be balanced better. And can we please stop with the "top coalitions" nonsense? The grass is always greener.

Steeme

Gun Bunny said:

Steeme said:

This is the reason why players with access to those cards thought the game was too easy, while players without those cards were terribly disadvantaged.

D3H then rebalanced the distribution of prizes so that that top coalitions didn't get all those combo cards as event rewards anymore, and instead broke the cards into "jewels" which could be used to acquire a random card from Elite packs.

Then the "Not another dime movement" started, one of the main complaints being that they were stripped of being guaranteed those top combo cards.

Now the new complaint is that "boosters suck" and that we should get easier, guaranteed access to the key cards.

It's just one big vicious cycle.

Not Another Dime was not, in fact, a reaction to top coalitions no longer getting guaranteed mythics for finishing top 10/5 in events. You should know, you posted in the thread. It was the culmination of every bug on top of every other bug on top of devaluation of game currency on top of the dupe problem on top of a lack of clear communication from D3H on top of now (occurred after I first posted it, but only serves to reinforce even more my commitment to my stand) the gutting of libraries that people paid real money for from standard events (which are pretty much the only things with good rewards now). 

How many people paid good, REAL money for Olivia, Ulrich, Gisa and Geralf, Kozilek, Mirrorpool, etc.? How many of those people would have done so knowing that their future value would be incredibly diminished?

So you're trying to tell me that the "nerf to rewards" was not one of the main complaints voiced out of that movement?  Players are still complaining about it to this day.

In addition, your "rage" loses a lot of support by countering one of the best things to happen to this game: Standard.

ZW2007- said:

And can we please stop with the "top coalitions" nonsense? The grass is always greener.

I don't get your point.  Only top coalitions had access to the Mythic prizes, which was the entire point.

shteev

Steeme said:

This is the reason why players with access to those cards thought the game was too easy, while players without those cards were terribly disadvantaged.

The very idea that the way to fix the game at this point was to leave broken cards in the game but limit the number of players who had access to them, rather than rebalancing them so everyone was playing a fair game, is the kind of self serving nonsense which could only be spread around by the type of player who paid money for Baral and Tezz 2 but refused to talk about how broken they were.

ZW2007-

Steeme said:

ZW2007- said:

And can we please stop with the "top coalitions" nonsense? The grass is always greener.

I don't get your point.  Only top coalitions had access to the Mythic prizes, which was the entire point.

Any player had access to those prizes, it required playing well and then applying to join one of those top coalitions. It's not like the rosters for coalitions are locked in with the first 20 players to join it and no one can leave it. Not to mention, the same Mythic prizes were offered for the top 5 individual players in events as well.

Steeme

shteev said:

Steeme said:

This is the reason why players with access to those cards thought the game was too easy, while players without those cards were terribly disadvantaged.

The very idea that the way to fix the game at this point was to leave broken cards in the game but limit the number of players who had access to them, rather than rebalancing them so everyone was playing a fair game, is the kind of self serving nonsense which could only be spread around by the type of player who paid money for Baral and Tezz 2 but refused to talk about how broken they were.

Right Steve.  I'm advocating Standard, and you're calling it self-serving nonsense.  I also clearly stated that I was waiting for a card like Baral to literally keep pace with the raging combo decks that even yourself admitted to "being forced" to play in events.  You know, with all the broken cards that you complain about.  The same broken cards in your decks.  The same decks forcing other players to cough up cash to even stand a chance against.

Like I said:

Steeme said:

It's just one big vicious cycle.

babar3355

I personally get turn 1 fatties or deploy out way more often than the AI.  I mean come on... they miss match 5s frequently, especially on loyalty gems.  They rarely order their cards appropriately, ie mirrorpool, devour, deploy for a 7 mana turn 1 deploy. 

Gun Bunny

Steeme said: 

Gun Bunny said:

Steeme said:

This is the reason why players with access to those cards thought the game was too easy, while players without those cards were terribly disadvantaged.

D3H then rebalanced the distribution of prizes so that that top coalitions didn't get all those combo cards as event rewards anymore, and instead broke the cards into "jewels" which could be used to acquire a random card from Elite packs.

Then the "Not another dime movement" started, one of the main complaints being that they were stripped of being guaranteed those top combo cards.

Now the new complaint is that "boosters suck" and that we should get easier, guaranteed access to the key cards.

It's just one big vicious cycle.

Not Another Dime was not, in fact, a reaction to top coalitions no longer getting guaranteed mythics for finishing top 10/5 in events. You should know, you posted in the thread. It was the culmination of every bug on top of every other bug on top of devaluation of game currency on top of the dupe problem on top of a lack of clear communication from D3H on top of now (occurred after I first posted it, but only serves to reinforce even more my commitment to my stand) the gutting of libraries that people paid real money for from standard events (which are pretty much the only things with good rewards now). 

How many people paid good, REAL money for Olivia, Ulrich, Gisa and Geralf, Kozilek, Mirrorpool, etc.? How many of those people would have done so knowing that their future value would be incredibly diminished?

So you're trying to tell me that the "nerf to rewards" was not one of the main complaints voiced out of that movement?  Players are still complaining about it to this day.

In addition, your "rage" loses a lot of support by countering one of the best things to happen to this game: Standard.

ZW2007- said:

And can we please stop with the "top coalitions" nonsense? The grass is always greener.

I don't get your point.  Only top coalitions had access to the Mythic prizes, which was the entire point.

No, I'm telling you what I said and nothing more. I cannot vouch for the motivations or complaints of others, nor was I in any way trying to form a movement. My "rage"? When did I ever use that word?

Also, you utterly failed to answer my question. There are literally dozens of cards that were offered for sale as limited time exclusives, after which they would be difficult at best to come by. How many people would have bought those cards knowing then what they know now? That would be like buying a car, only to have the manufacturer come back to you two years later and ban you from using the trunk unless it's a Tuesday. It's arbitrary, and disingenuous to sell something and then constrict it's usage further after the sale. If the cards are seriously that broken, then they need to do the work and actually balance the game rather than just cutting the throats of players.

Sarahschmara

Gun Bunny said:

That would be like buying a car, only to have the manufacturer come back to you two years later and ban you from using the trunk unless it's a Tuesday. It's arbitrary, and disingenuous to sell something and then constrict it's usage further after the sale. If the cards are seriously that broken, then they need to do the work and actually balance the game rather than just cutting the throats of players.

Sorry, Gun Bunny, I disagree.

A car is a physical object. So it would be more like if people bought a physical MtG card and then WotC banned it from tournament play.

What you are talking about is digital media. So it would be like people buying an ebook only to have it edited/removed afterwards. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html

The lesson that we don't actually own digital media, we only rent it, is easier to learn from other people. Sorry you were one of the ones that learned it the hard way.

Steeme

Gun Bunny said:

No, I'm telling you what I said and nothing more. I cannot vouch for the motivations or complaints of others, nor was I in any way trying to form a movement. My "rage"? When did I ever use that word?

Also, you utterly failed to answer my question. There are literally dozens of cards that were offered for sale as limited time exclusives, after which they would be difficult at best to come by. How many people would have bought those cards knowing then what they know now? That would be like buying a car, only to have the manufacturer come back to you two years later and ban you from using the trunk unless it's a Tuesday. It's arbitrary, and disingenuous to sell something and then constrict it's usage further after the sale. If the cards are seriously that broken, then they need to do the work and actually balance the game rather than just cutting the throats of players.

1. The only person that is bringing up your personal battle with D3H is you.  My reference was to the portion of the community banding together to boycott D3H, and like I said, one of the major complaints was the nerf to rewards.  You can counter this point as much as you like, but the truth does not change.

2. Standard is a reality.  Get over it.  It's for your benefit, it's for my benefit, and it's for everyone else's benefit.  And it's the right thing to do.  You're complaining about Olivia and Ulrich?  You can still use those cards in Legacy events.  The whole point is that we don't want those cards in the current events because they are toxic.