Feedback on amount of play needed for progression

lpearl
lpearl Posts: 31 Just Dropped In
in MPQ Suggestions and Feedback

Hi,

I wanted to submit my feedback. I'm a 3-4 year player and am pretty addicted. I'm finding the 5x clear for progression + my normal goal of 575 pts/PVP has created some burnout where 4x clear seemed to be at a level where I still wanted to play the game instead of it being a chore.

Thank you

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Comments

  • JVReal
    JVReal Posts: 1,884 Chairperson of the Boards
    Agreed.  I am seeing it too in people who play regularly both PVE and PVP.

    PVE only don't seem to mind so much as they usually get green checks, but this increase has definitely made the top 100 a tighter score range than ever before.  Just an alliance of progression hitters won't guarantee you safe T100.

    Before, 4 clears got you max progression and people stopped.  Others would 6 clear to get checks.  Big score difference.

    Now you clear 5 times for progression or 6 times for checks.  very tight.  Alliance full of progression and half clearing to 1 still gets you into the 70's or 80's in placement.  That's not what I consider "safe" to be able to go to sleep after my S4 ends.
  • JablesMc
    JablesMc Posts: 235 Tile Toppler
    edited June 2017
    Yes. I am in the same situation, and, I concur.
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2017
    I still don't like >30% longer time commitment for slightly increased rewards. Simple as that.
  • lpearl
    lpearl Posts: 31 Just Dropped In
    Part of it might be the 7 x one day subs. At least the other events have a 2 day sub where there's a break.
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've been clearing to 6 or greater for awhile for the xp, so I don't notice the difference.  I'm also in a life situation that allows me to do that right now, though.  I'd feel differently if I were more pressed for free time.

    Your malaise may disappear when they implement the new scaling scheme.  I played SCL7 in the test and it flew by in about half the time it usually takes me.  If you know you don't have the time or patience you can drop down SCL and make max progression a lot quicker.
  • vernr1
    vernr1 Posts: 32 Just Dropped In
    Agreed, this change just makes the game more of a chore than it already was. I have pretty much given up on getting final rewards for any event, I don't have that amount of time to spend playing this game, so no longer really care about progression. 

    In fact I'm kind of bitter, since now there are even better rewards that I won't ever get, yay.

    Any way about it, recent changes to the game have caused me to play less and stop spending money on IAP.
  • Pla5yer99
    Pla5yer99 Posts: 32 Just Dropped In
    edited June 2017
    380 day player. I do 6 clears per pve daily. At least 800 pvp points every Pvp. Scl8 always 
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's just not very fun.

    Something a game should be, and makes me view the game as work. 
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    I don't find the new format that much worse. The system works so you don't have to wait, but if you did let some points replenish that 5th clear isn't required on all of them. So far I've had to do a little more clean up on the last day, where before I would reach progression before 4 clears on the final sub.

    But mentally, something about the 5th clear being required but at less points is not satisfying. And if I do 5 clears, I might as well do 6, so I usually end up with a few green checks and a few left at 4/6. I kinda like how many smaller rewards there are early on, but I don't like how all the good rewards are backloaded. But that's a different topic I guess

  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    Even though you can still clear 4 times if you wish, people feel the need to clear 5 times because of the reward structure, thus pushing themselves beyond what they want to do.  So, this PVE change has benefited hardcore players but hurt the less hardcore.  If D3 added more progression rewards up to 6 clears, then casual players would feel the need to play more than they want to because of the fear of loss - losing out on rewards when they have the ability to get them. 

    The fear of loss is powerful, which is why people will work very hard to avoid selling any covers. 
  • carrion_pigeons
    carrion_pigeons Posts: 942 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2017
    I have yet to bother. I was frequently unwilling to do 4 clears, but now I just ignore pve entirely, except for sniping on the last day. I'm not even doing it out of protest, I just stopped caring. 
  • Hendross
    Hendross Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
    The 5th clear seems like a small change, but it's 9 times/daily at the hardest difficulty.  Maybe another 30-40min.

    I agree, it's become too burdensome to keep pace and have reduced to farming the CP + 900pts PvP.

    I thought 4 was better, but i still didn't normally compete in the longer events (before reward restructuring)


  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    MissChinch said:
    bbigler said:
    Even though you can still clear 4 times if you wish, people feel the need to clear 5 times because of the reward structure, thus pushing themselves beyond what they want to do.  So, this PVE change has benefited hardcore players but hurt the less hardcore.  If D3 added more progression rewards up to 6 clears, then casual players would feel the need to play more than they want to because of the fear of loss - losing out on rewards when they have the ability to get them. 

    The fear of loss is powerful, which is why people will work very hard to avoid selling any covers. 


    I'd be a fan of them extending progression rewards to the point of absolutely perfect clears through the whole event, and I'd expect no one to ever get there...   but I'd want to end the massive reward, instead of putting one 55CP reward in at the "end" put five 10 CP rewards along the path.


    I'd rather have a reward structure that makes it clear you're not going to get everything without a miraculous run, but I want a smooth value curve along the individual rewards...   I'm missing out on rewards in lightning rounds, but I don't mind because none are as big a deal as a huge CP dump...  Change the expectations from getting all the rewards to picking the stopping point that's the best value (which is currently stopping at max progression because of the massive spike of CP)

    I would welcome a change like this, especially if they removed placement rewards and simply set the progression rewards so high that it would take fast clears in the right order with a 5* roster to reach the top.  Then almost everyone accepts that they can't reach the top and settle for the rewards they are comfortably able to reach.  Then, as their roster strengthens, they are slowly able to go a little higher in rewards.

    My real PVE wish is to remove point fresh counters and placement rewards, while upgrading and evenly spreading out the progression rewards.  
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    D3's stance (from what I've heard on these boards) is that they don't create stretch goals because they know people will burn out trying to get them.  Their preferred environment is "just enough" - restrict your active engagement to a level at which the enjoyment and rewards slightly outweigh frustration and time commitment.  The reason we have the node structure we do now is because people were grinding 1 point trivials thousands of times to reach top placement, which they thought was unhealthy.

    That's reasonable in my mind, but their backload strategy runs counter to that sentiment.  There's a pretty clear dividing line that presents the same problem.  As a player, either you're interested enough to engage in an unhealthy amount of playtime to reach the good rewards, or you effectively burn out and ignore the mode to some degree.
  • Pollozz
    Pollozz Posts: 82 Match Maker
    I am a pve player and I love the change. I get more goodies for the same amount of time, most of you are saying that are addicted to the game, and yet cry for one more clear. So clearly you are not addicted, simply are used to the game but don't really enjoy it. If you are burnout just stop playing, find something else to do and come back later if you wish. But I like the changes and i'll support them.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017
    I always felt 4x was a bit much.  3x seemed like a decently balance between asking for dedication from players and not asking us to play all day.  5x is obviously more than i want to do. . .
  • Sim Mayor
    Sim Mayor Posts: 309 Mover and Shaker
    600+ day player, I've been clearing a lot more since the new system was put into play, mainly because I'm just about to start champing a few 4* characters and I'm grinding for CPs (I don't spend much on this game, I put in the time instead). That being said, my wife (who also plays) says she's started thinking my face is shiny and black with "Samsung" printed on it....

    My compromise is that I currently only go all the way on missions that I have all 3 required characters for. There are around a dozen 3*s that I never got because I just don't like the character or the power set, so that gets me off the phone for a few days at a time other than DDQ. Just enough play to stay excited, just enough time off to prevent burnout.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    I clear 6 per day for XP so this change doesn't really affect me, but I definitely don't like this change.  This means if I ever decided to go more casual it would only be one clear less?  It's a game and only half of the game.  It seems extreme.  If they didn't backload CP and just added rewards onto the end that would be one thing.  This change basically says if you want to develop a 4* roster via PvE you have to do 5 clears, there's not really another option outside of just getting 2 progression covers and likely not championing anyone before they leave the pools.
  • Skrofa
    Skrofa Posts: 388 Mover and Shaker
    carrion pigeons said:
    I have yet to bother. I was frequently unwilling to do 4 clears, but now I just ignore pve entirely, except for sniping on the last day. I'm not even doing it out of protest, I just stopped caring. 
    I was thinking about this these past few days...
    People keep complaining about fighting the dark avengers in pve all the time. And I get it, it does feel repetitive and stuff. And the "grind" is too much.
    I play relatively competitively in pve and it's two hours of play per day at most these days. And for the time I put in, the rewards are just awesome!!! So this change has only been positive to me.

    Now cut to pvp. Same enemies in pve? Don't make me laugh! The little I dabble with pvp there's not much variety there either and the rewards are not really enticing! Especially considering the effort/reward ratio!

    So... My question here is... Why do players favour pvp over pve? (Should I would open a new thread about this?)

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