Cheating

broll

tiomono said:

JHawkInc said:

Jaedenkaal said:

Ducky said:

Jaedenkaal said:

I'm not sure how this would be considered cheating, if the current "player" of the account isn't doing anything than the owner of the account couldn't do.

Because it's spelled out in the ToS that it's against the rules, thus cheating.

That's the rules of the ToS, not the rules of the game. "cheating" and "breaking the rules" are not synonyms, nor is one a definition of the other. 

I'm not arguing whether the ToS are being (allegedly) violated. I'm simply commenting that it seems like an odd thing to complain about on the forum since no one seems to be gaining an unfair advantage as far as day-to-day game interactions go. 

I think someone taking a break from the game and still continuing to gain rewards for playing each day because they have loaned their account to a friend is absolutely an unfair advantage. This game requires a significant time investment to be competitive, and using multiple people on one account to make that investment easier is a violation of ToS and unfair to all of the people putting that same time in on their own.

Letting a kid or SO play a few matches isn't the same as taking a week's long break and recruiting someone else to play for you. If you want to take an extended break from the game, you shouldn't be gaining rewards in that time period, and other players shouldn't be forced to compete with your account.

No you cannot let a minor play or watch your game. It's against the TOS. Therefore an offense worthy of a ban.

Edit: Why flag a post that does exactly what the op did. Point out an infraction of the TOS, and say that should be banned.

No, letting a child play is not the same as taking a break and letting someone else play. But according to the TOS they should have the same consequence.

Probably because you're comparing apples to oranges.  How are the devs supposed to know if a child is playing on their relatives device?  Selling/trading/loaning the account out to be used on a different device and/or in a different part of the country/world is something that absolutely can be tracked and acted upon.

The only reason the 13 year old rule is there is because it's a joke law that's been on the books for ages that can't be reasonably enforced (and never has been), but they have to put it in there cause it's the law.  

MissChinch

Reminds me of the time my 4x1 relay team was beat in high school and the dude who ran second on our team starts complaining that their guy was wearing a gold chain necklace, which is in violation of the rules, therefore we should win.  We had a good coach, he yelled at the kid to shut up, told him to have more self respect than that and get on the bus.

The BH exploit went on for a long time, provided those that chose to do so to gain specific covers they would otherwise not have gotten, covers that could not have been selectively acquired by those not taking advantage of the exploit.  To my knowledge nothing has been done to correct that...  I cant fathom how someone playing some friends account with their permission that did not involve any ill-gotten advantages could possibly be a higher priority.

Some rules are silly and should not be enforced, letting your friend play your account with your permission is one of those.  I'd also not complain to police in Rhode Island if I noticed a retailer selling both a toothbrush and toothpaste to the same patron on a Sunday, which is illegal. 

http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/rhode-island

tiomono

broll said:

tiomono said:

JHawkInc said:

Jaedenkaal said:

Ducky said:

Jaedenkaal said:

I'm not sure how this would be considered cheating, if the current "player" of the account isn't doing anything than the owner of the account couldn't do.

Because it's spelled out in the ToS that it's against the rules, thus cheating.

That's the rules of the ToS, not the rules of the game. "cheating" and "breaking the rules" are not synonyms, nor is one a definition of the other. 

I'm not arguing whether the ToS are being (allegedly) violated. I'm simply commenting that it seems like an odd thing to complain about on the forum since no one seems to be gaining an unfair advantage as far as day-to-day game interactions go. 

I think someone taking a break from the game and still continuing to gain rewards for playing each day because they have loaned their account to a friend is absolutely an unfair advantage. This game requires a significant time investment to be competitive, and using multiple people on one account to make that investment easier is a violation of ToS and unfair to all of the people putting that same time in on their own.

Letting a kid or SO play a few matches isn't the same as taking a week's long break and recruiting someone else to play for you. If you want to take an extended break from the game, you shouldn't be gaining rewards in that time period, and other players shouldn't be forced to compete with your account.

No you cannot let a minor play or watch your game. It's against the TOS. Therefore an offense worthy of a ban.

Edit: Why flag a post that does exactly what the op did. Point out an infraction of the TOS, and say that should be banned.

No, letting a child play is not the same as taking a break and letting someone else play. But according to the TOS they should have the same consequence.

Probably because you're comparing apples to oranges.  How are the devs supposed to know if a child is playing on their relatives device?  Selling/trading/loaning the account out to be used on a different device and/or in a different part of the country/world is something that absolutely can be tracked and acted upon.

The only reason the 13 year old rule is there is because it's a joke law that's been on the books for ages that can't be reasonably enforced (and never has been), but they have to put it in there cause it's the law.  

I don't see it as apples to oranges. It's a subsection of the TOS. You either accept the whole TOS or none of it. You cannot agree to an entire document and later call one portion of it a joke and meaningless. 

 So bring it full circle and ask how d3 can confirm that the account that the op is calling out is actually sold, loaned, given, or whatever, so that they can take action.

Pants1000

I'm normally a stickler for rules and support banning cheaters, but I don't think this is worth the devs time.  If there is clear evidence that an account is sold, yes it should be banned, but if an account is loaned or given, it would be difficult to prove and not worth the time to investigate.

broll

tiomono said:

broll said:

tiomono said:

JHawkInc said:

Jaedenkaal said:

Ducky said:

Jaedenkaal said:

I'm not sure how this would be considered cheating, if the current "player" of the account isn't doing anything than the owner of the account couldn't do.

Because it's spelled out in the ToS that it's against the rules, thus cheating.

That's the rules of the ToS, not the rules of the game. "cheating" and "breaking the rules" are not synonyms, nor is one a definition of the other. 

I'm not arguing whether the ToS are being (allegedly) violated. I'm simply commenting that it seems like an odd thing to complain about on the forum since no one seems to be gaining an unfair advantage as far as day-to-day game interactions go. 

I think someone taking a break from the game and still continuing to gain rewards for playing each day because they have loaned their account to a friend is absolutely an unfair advantage. This game requires a significant time investment to be competitive, and using multiple people on one account to make that investment easier is a violation of ToS and unfair to all of the people putting that same time in on their own.

Letting a kid or SO play a few matches isn't the same as taking a week's long break and recruiting someone else to play for you. If you want to take an extended break from the game, you shouldn't be gaining rewards in that time period, and other players shouldn't be forced to compete with your account.

No you cannot let a minor play or watch your game. It's against the TOS. Therefore an offense worthy of a ban.

Edit: Why flag a post that does exactly what the op did. Point out an infraction of the TOS, and say that should be banned.

No, letting a child play is not the same as taking a break and letting someone else play. But according to the TOS they should have the same consequence.

Probably because you're comparing apples to oranges.  How are the devs supposed to know if a child is playing on their relatives device?  Selling/trading/loaning the account out to be used on a different device and/or in a different part of the country/world is something that absolutely can be tracked and acted upon.

The only reason the 13 year old rule is there is because it's a joke law that's been on the books for ages that can't be reasonably enforced (and never has been), but they have to put it in there cause it's the law.  

I don't see it as apples to oranges. It's a subsection of the TOS. You either accept the whole TOS or none of it. You cannot agree to an entire document and later call one portion of it a joke and meaningless. 

 So bring it full circle and ask how d3 can confirm that the account that the op is calling out is actually sold, loaned, given, or whatever, so that they can take action.

I hinted at them already. IP address change, region change, device change, etc. none of these none is a smoking gun but if multiple people report it to CS and any/all the changes above match up with the dates in reports then there you have it. 

Flipside how can CS tell that your 13 year old used your phone to play. They can't, unless you tell them. How can they tell that a 13 year old made an account, again they can't they just have to take that when the check the box saying they were over 13 they weren't lying. 

Im not saying that the 13 year old rule shouldn't be enforced, I'm saying it's not possible to find or even confirm reports of it. 

Stop op throwing your ridiculous straw man argument into this.

tiomono

broll said:

tiomono said:

broll said:

tiomono said:

JHawkInc said:

Jaedenkaal said:

Ducky said:

Jaedenkaal said:

I'm not sure how this would be considered cheating, if the current "player" of the account isn't doing anything than the owner of the account couldn't do.

Because it's spelled out in the ToS that it's against the rules, thus cheating.

That's the rules of the ToS, not the rules of the game. "cheating" and "breaking the rules" are not synonyms, nor is one a definition of the other. 

I'm not arguing whether the ToS are being (allegedly) violated. I'm simply commenting that it seems like an odd thing to complain about on the forum since no one seems to be gaining an unfair advantage as far as day-to-day game interactions go. 

I think someone taking a break from the game and still continuing to gain rewards for playing each day because they have loaned their account to a friend is absolutely an unfair advantage. This game requires a significant time investment to be competitive, and using multiple people on one account to make that investment easier is a violation of ToS and unfair to all of the people putting that same time in on their own.

Letting a kid or SO play a few matches isn't the same as taking a week's long break and recruiting someone else to play for you. If you want to take an extended break from the game, you shouldn't be gaining rewards in that time period, and other players shouldn't be forced to compete with your account.

No you cannot let a minor play or watch your game. It's against the TOS. Therefore an offense worthy of a ban.

Edit: Why flag a post that does exactly what the op did. Point out an infraction of the TOS, and say that should be banned.

No, letting a child play is not the same as taking a break and letting someone else play. But according to the TOS they should have the same consequence.

Probably because you're comparing apples to oranges.  How are the devs supposed to know if a child is playing on their relatives device?  Selling/trading/loaning the account out to be used on a different device and/or in a different part of the country/world is something that absolutely can be tracked and acted upon.

The only reason the 13 year old rule is there is because it's a joke law that's been on the books for ages that can't be reasonably enforced (and never has been), but they have to put it in there cause it's the law.  

I don't see it as apples to oranges. It's a subsection of the TOS. You either accept the whole TOS or none of it. You cannot agree to an entire document and later call one portion of it a joke and meaningless. 

 So bring it full circle and ask how d3 can confirm that the account that the op is calling out is actually sold, loaned, given, or whatever, so that they can take action.

I hinted at them already. IP address change, region change, device change, etc. none of these none is a smoking gun but if multiple people report it to CS and any/all the changes above match up with the dates in reports then there you have it. 

Flipside how can CS tell that your 13 year old used your phone to play. They can't, unless you tell them. How can they tell that a 13 year old made an account, again they can't they just have to take that when the check the box saying they were over 13 they weren't lying. 

Im not saying that the 13 year old rule shouldn't be enforced, I'm saying it's not possible to find or even confirm reports of it. 

Stop op throwing your ridiculous straw man argument into this.

Yes I am throwing ridiculous arguments into this.

Op said this has been reported probably 100 times. It's ridiculous that customer service has to waste their time with ridiculous problems like this that does not realistically impact other people's play. Such as token exploits or other in game hacks or cheats.

It's stuff like this getting spammed to CS that limits their time to deal with actual problems.

Ducky

tiomono said:

broll said:i

tiomono said:

broll said:

tiomono said:

JHawkInc said:

Jaedenkaal said:

Ducky said:

Jaedenkaal said:

I'm not sure how this would be considered cheating, if the current "player" of the account isn't doing anything than the owner of the account couldn't do.

Because it's spelled out in the ToS that it's against the rules, thus cheating.

That's the rules of the ToS, not the rules of the game. "cheating" and "breaking the rules" are not synonyms, nor is one a definition of the other. 

I'm not arguing whether the ToS are being (allegedly) violated. I'm simply commenting that it seems like an odd thing to complain about on the forum since no one seems to be gaining an unfair advantage as far as day-to-day game interactions go. 

I think someone taking a break from the game and still continuing to gain rewards for playing each day because they have loaned their account to a friend is absolutely an unfair advantage. This game requires a significant time investment to be competitive, and using multiple people on one account to make that investment easier is a violation of ToS and unfair to all of the people putting that same time in on their own.

Letting a kid or SO play a few matches isn't the same as taking a week's long break and recruiting someone else to play for you. If you want to take an extended break from the game, you shouldn't be gaining rewards in that time period, and other players shouldn't be forced to compete with your account.

No you cannot let a minor play or watch your game. It's against the TOS. Therefore an offense worthy of a ban.

Edit: Why flag a post that does exactly what the op did. Point out an infraction of the TOS, and say that should be banned.

No, letting a child play is not the same as taking a break and letting someone else play. But according to the TOS they should have the same consequence.

Probably because you're comparing apples to oranges.  How are the devs supposed to know if a child is playing on their relatives device?  Selling/trading/loaning the account out to be used on a different device and/or in a different part of the country/world is something that absolutely can be tracked and acted upon.

The only reason the 13 year old rule is there is because it's a joke law that's been on the books for ages that can't be reasonably enforced (and never has been), but they have to put it in there cause it's the law.  

I don't see it as apples to oranges. It's a subsection of the TOS. You either accept the whole TOS or none of it. You cannot agree to an entire document and later call one portion of it a joke and meaningless. 

 So bring it full circle and ask how d3 can confirm that the account that the op is calling out is actually sold, loaned, given, or whatever, so that they can take action.

I hinted at them already. IP address change, region change, device change, etc. none of these none is a smoking gun but if multiple people report it to CS and any/all the changes above match up with the dates in reports then there you have it. 

Flipside how can CS tell that your 13 year old used your phone to play. They can't, unless you tell them. How can they tell that a 13 year old made an account, again they can't they just have to take that when the check the box saying they were over 13 they weren't lying. 

Im not saying that the 13 year old rule shouldn't be enforced, I'm saying it's not possible to find or even confirm reports of it. 

Stop op throwing your ridiculous straw man argument into this.

Yes I am throwing ridiculous arguments into this.

Op said this has been reported probably 100 times. It's ridiculous that customer service has to waste their time with ridiculous problems like this that does not realistically impact other people's play. Such as token exploits or other in game hacks or cheats.

It's stuff like this getting spammed to CS that limits their time to deal with actual problems.

When the player who is using the account griefs other players, it absolutely affects their gameplay. 

Stax the Foyer

Pants1000 said:

I'm normally a stickler for rules and support banning cheaters, but I don't think this is worth the devs time.  If there is clear evidence that an account is sold, yes it should be banned, but if an account is loaned or given, it would be difficult to prove and not worth the time to investigate.

How would they know the difference between sold and loaned/given accounts? If you want to prevent the former (and it's very much in the developers interest to do so), you have to prevent the latter, as a practical matter.

tiomono

Ducky said:

tiomono said:

broll said:i

tiomono said:

broll said:

tiomono said:

JHawkInc said:

Jaedenkaal said:

Ducky said:

Jaedenkaal said:

I'm not sure how this would be considered cheating, if the current "player" of the account isn't doing anything than the owner of the account couldn't do.

Because it's spelled out in the ToS that it's against the rules, thus cheating.

That's the rules of the ToS, not the rules of the game. "cheating" and "breaking the rules" are not synonyms, nor is one a definition of the other. 

I'm not arguing whether the ToS are being (allegedly) violated. I'm simply commenting that it seems like an odd thing to complain about on the forum since no one seems to be gaining an unfair advantage as far as day-to-day game interactions go. 

I think someone taking a break from the game and still continuing to gain rewards for playing each day because they have loaned their account to a friend is absolutely an unfair advantage. This game requires a significant time investment to be competitive, and using multiple people on one account to make that investment easier is a violation of ToS and unfair to all of the people putting that same time in on their own.

Letting a kid or SO play a few matches isn't the same as taking a week's long break and recruiting someone else to play for you. If you want to take an extended break from the game, you shouldn't be gaining rewards in that time period, and other players shouldn't be forced to compete with your account.

No you cannot let a minor play or watch your game. It's against the TOS. Therefore an offense worthy of a ban.

Edit: Why flag a post that does exactly what the op did. Point out an infraction of the TOS, and say that should be banned.

No, letting a child play is not the same as taking a break and letting someone else play. But according to the TOS they should have the same consequence.

Probably because you're comparing apples to oranges.  How are the devs supposed to know if a child is playing on their relatives device?  Selling/trading/loaning the account out to be used on a different device and/or in a different part of the country/world is something that absolutely can be tracked and acted upon.

The only reason the 13 year old rule is there is because it's a joke law that's been on the books for ages that can't be reasonably enforced (and never has been), but they have to put it in there cause it's the law.  

I don't see it as apples to oranges. It's a subsection of the TOS. You either accept the whole TOS or none of it. You cannot agree to an entire document and later call one portion of it a joke and meaningless. 

 So bring it full circle and ask how d3 can confirm that the account that the op is calling out is actually sold, loaned, given, or whatever, so that they can take action.

I hinted at them already. IP address change, region change, device change, etc. none of these none is a smoking gun but if multiple people report it to CS and any/all the changes above match up with the dates in reports then there you have it. 

Flipside how can CS tell that your 13 year old used your phone to play. They can't, unless you tell them. How can they tell that a 13 year old made an account, again they can't they just have to take that when the check the box saying they were over 13 they weren't lying. 

Im not saying that the 13 year old rule shouldn't be enforced, I'm saying it's not possible to find or even confirm reports of it. 

Stop op throwing your ridiculous straw man argument into this.

Yes I am throwing ridiculous arguments into this.

Op said this has been reported probably 100 times. It's ridiculous that customer service has to waste their time with ridiculous problems like this that does not realistically impact other people's play. Such as token exploits or other in game hacks or cheats.

It's stuff like this getting spammed to CS that limits their time to deal with actual problems.

When the player who is using the account griefs other players, it absolutely affects their gameplay. 

How are they griefing them?

KinDM

"When the player who is using the account griefs other players, it absolutely affects their gameplay. "

Griefing, as far as I can tell, isn't again the ToS. I don't shield check or half the time name check (sorry everyone I've probably hit in my alliance!). If I'm just trying to hit 900 I may double tap people. I'm a bad citizen of the PvP game. Sometimes I'll hit people just because their IGN bugs me. But these are all artificial social constructs for the game, they're not binding requirements. As such, this is absolutely no different than if the Original Owner was doing the same thing. 

Our opinions aside, the game controllers have already given approval for it. It's just another in a long line of abuses and cheats that can get overlooked if you're in good enough $tanding with the game controllers. I don't think they'll suddenly change things because, let's be realistic, this is a profit driven game and they need to do what makes the most sense for not only their player base but also their bottom line...that's how we have this lovely game still running to be addicted to in the first place.

acescracked

Most of the posts in this thread is missing the true point of the OP's post. It's also because most don't understand how different top level PvP play really is.

He's not talking about avg rosters. He's talking about the single top roster in the game. The original owner isn't able to play (reasons don't matter) so should this account be sidelined until original owner can play?

Or can anyone play it and create havok at the top levels of PvP? The my "my brother can play my account" point really doesn't affect anyone else in game directly like this specific account can.

Whenever the owner of said account can't play then it's like a boss account played by anyone?

Calnexin

The top roster argument may be the point of the thread.  If so, it invalidates the thread.  If you're going to enforce the ToS, it should be enforced for everyone, not just the most powerful or most annoying players.

As far as griefing - well, welcome to the club.  Everyone who isn't at the extreme top is automatically griefed when they drop a shield.  Anytime I present an idea or express a desire for more merciful play in PvP here the boards in general tell me to suck it up and adapt to the situation.  If there's a reason to ban, getting beat by public enemy #1 isn't it.  Enforce it equally or not at all.

jamesh

broll said:

Selling/trading/loaning the account out to be used on a different device and/or in a different part of the country/world is something that absolutely can be tracked and acted upon.

I've played the game while on a trip overseas, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one to do so.  It's probably a lot more common than someone lending their account to someone for a period of time, so I'd be hesitant to use this as evidence of wrongdoing.

Pants1000

Stax the Foyer said:

Pants1000 said:

I'm normally a stickler for rules and support banning cheaters, but I don't think this is worth the devs time.  If there is clear evidence that an account is sold, yes it should be banned, but if an account is loaned or given, it would be difficult to prove and not worth the time to investigate.

How would they know the difference between sold and loaned/given accounts? If you want to prevent the former (and it's very much in the developers interest to do so), you have to prevent the latter, as a practical matter.

In previous games I played where selling accounts was also against the rules, some people posted accounts for sale on eBay or in Line chat rooms, and that got them banned.  

Beer40

What's an account like this go for? (Asking for a friend  )

*sarcasm*

Fightmastermpq

Beer40 said:

What's an account like this go for? (Asking for a friend  )

*sarcasm*

Honestly you would probably get more for your account than the account in question simply because the one in question would surely be boxed shortly after you your friend purchased it since everyone would know.

therightwaye

Whose account is this? How do people know so much about it? 

therightwaye

Ducky said:

Jaedenkaal said:

I'm not sure how this would be considered cheating, if the current "player" of the account isn't doing anything than the owner of the account couldn't do.

Because it's spelled out in the ToS that it's against the rules, thus cheating.

so if a person under 13 played the game (without parent approval) that would be consider cheating @ducky? 

PhantomSniper

Instead of focusing on someone playing someone else's account, how about focusing on relevant issues? That's some really petty sh@t if you ask me. We all know the roster the OP was referring to and my take is who cares???? If I drop that amount of money on a game and have to step away for a family issue or some other problem, you damn right I'm going to give it to someone else to play until I get back. For you guys to actually start a thread over this is pure pettiness, find other sh@t to complain about, nothing but damn crybabies.

nyck1118

I let my daughter play my account quite a bit to do DDQ.  Guess i should get banned.