Development please slow down.
Comments
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Pretty much every Blizzard game ever is fine and keeps being fine despite the many many patches (except maybe servers overloading on release days)1
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I can see how I was misunderstood by some. By no means does crafting need to be stopped. I made a post about currency conversion systems and was received as a drooling idiot overall. So ha ha in your face to those guys lol. It would just be nice if issues were solved on a large scale. Then we get this beautiful new crafting system. We all forgive and forget cuz don't act like every one of you isnt hoarding dupes waiting to unload them ****. If things get all jacked you lose things again you're gna get mad as hell. You don't get blue in anticipation two or three times and keep coming back for more lol
//Removed Inappropriate Content -Brigby1 -
madwren said:Steeme said:I challenge everyone in this thread to find a major game title that introduces no defects after a major release.
Fire Emblem HeroesA quick google search reveals quite glaring issues with the game and its release:
http://www.perfectly-nintendo.com/fire-emblem-heroes-comprehensive-list-issues-possible-fixes/
shteev said:
This is a silly thing to say. You're just hoping no-one will go for it, aren't youSteeme said:I challenge everyone in this thread to find a major game title that introduces no defects after a major release.
I mean, Hearthstone, for starters.Hearthstone has no bugs? I quote "The list of bugs in Hearthstone is too extensive and complex to list here."
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Captsquee said:
See above link. Hearthstone has magnitudes more defects than this game.I understand that you're frustrated, for whatever reason. Fine. But your emotion based rant has no basis for directing an entire company on how they should operate. You demonstrate no knowledge on the subject and have no experience in software development, just like the majority of others commenting in this thread.
You should try listening to someone who actually does this for a living.
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Stating that you are an expert in a certain field does not make your argument valid. Also, putting yourself above others who are giving actual arguments is just a very poor way to discuss. See, I could now argue that me too work in software development and that we never put out an app without serious testing, and that in our company we work by the standard: "If the user can find a problem, then you as a developer should have been able to have found it too".Steeme said:But your emotion based rant has no basis for directing an entire company on how they should operate. You demonstrate no knowledge on the subject and have no experience in software development, just like the majority of others commenting in this thread. You should try listening to someone who actually does this for a living.
But this is not about creating perfect products, and I believe no one here is naive enough to believe that any app would work 100% bugfree no matter how hard you try, there are just too many variables at the user side which you never can all see beforehand. This game here just have to many problems client side, and some of them have survived many updates which just is not right, even less so since we have been pointing to those problems over and over again.
Maybe you work different, but wouldn't you at least - as a part of a development process - try to squish the known bugs before you move on to a next big update? Because this is what we are talking about: not stopping the development, but just trying to first repair the game before breaking it even more which has been the case in every single update here.0 -
This sucks because I fully agree with both sides of the argument. One group wants a game that works and is frustrated that new stuff takes priority over fixing issues. I get that sentiment, but I have a slight counter. I'm sure some of y'all worked with HTML at some point. I'm not talking about MySpace layouts, but actual web design. You spend all day writing code. All you want is a centered image over a block of text and some buttons at the bottom. Your code looks good, everything is in place in your preview. So you publish. Go to your page in the browser..... 3 of your 8 buttons are floating off in the corner and your background is the wrong color. So you curse into your mtn dew and go back to the software. Dig around and discover an extra backslash that has thrown everything into chaos. So you delete that sucker and publish again. Site looks sweet in the browser except that now none of your links work. I'm sure you get where I'm going. You've got a small amount of human beings working on a large amount of code, and they have deadlines. It would be nearly impossible to account for every possible bug in a game as complex as this, so some things slip through the cracks. Some updates have more bugs than others, but look at how many bugs were fixed in just this most recent update. We, as magic players, are a group that is absolutely impossible to please. I've been playing magic since 95, and I jumped on this variation a year ago. We're all going to have grumbles and gripes, and we all feel like they fall on deaf ears. That isn't the case. We have to remember that there are tens of thousands of us vs. a group of maybe a dozen devs. These things take time. Sure, I've grumbled right along with some of you in chat or online. I also know that software is unforgiving, so problems will happen. Its easy to be cynical, and I'm not saying that I'm not frustrated right now. What I am saying is that I know they're working on things, and they're doing it for us. I feel like they've probably had enough of being the evil wizards in the tower. They're legitimately trying. If you want to jump ship, nobody's stopping you. Maybe we should adjust our expectations somewhat. The game is still fun, even with its shortcomings.
Yes, I have plenty negative I could say about the game, but I don't really think it would be anything new. I get it y'all. I'm just done being a stormy cloud.2 -
@UweTellkampf exactly, when something doesn't work you fix it. Pq isn't going to be able to take another hit of this caliber. People are getting fed up. I just like MTG and this is the only other MTG game on android. Sad thing is all I have left to do is events and thats not reason to want to keep playing or spend money on it.0
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It's not that I expect any update or new content to be bug free. It's the nature of a game that has so many moving parts interacting with each other to have some issues on launch day. My problem with D3H is that the VAST majority of their bugs aren't "hey we couldn't feasibly test that weird combo out under those exact circumstances because who realistically has THOSE three cards in a deck together?" or "we couldn't anticipate the server load after a new release would do weird stuff with some features" but rather are discovered by nearly everyone within ten minutes of updating. If they are truly beta testing new content in house, then they are either:Steeme said:I challenge everyone in this thread to find a major game title that introduces no defects after a major release.
A )tragically understaffed
B ) hilariously incompetent
C ) deliberately skipping over serious bugs because of their inability or unwillingness to fix them in time to meet their release date, or
D ) some combination of the above
Transform was a core mechanic of SoI, and was broken from day one. That is the kind of bug that never should have made it to release, yet there it was, screwing things up for literally months.0 -
UweTellkampf said:
Stating that you are an expert in a certain field does not make your argument valid. Also, putting yourself above others who are giving actual arguments is just a very poor way to discuss. See, I could now argue that me too work in software development and that we never put out an app without serious testing, and that in our company we work by the standard: "If the user can find a problem, then you as a developer should have been able to have found it too".Steeme said:But your emotion based rant has no basis for directing an entire company on how they should operate. You demonstrate no knowledge on the subject and have no experience in software development, just like the majority of others commenting in this thread. You should try listening to someone who actually does this for a living.
But this is not about creating perfect products, and I believe no one here is naive enough to believe that any app would work 100% bugfree no matter how hard you try, there are just too many variables at the user side which you never can all see beforehand. This game here just have to many problems client side, and some of them have survived many updates which just is not right, even less so since we have been pointing to those problems over and over again.
Maybe you work different, but wouldn't you at least - as a part of a development process - try to squish the known bugs before you move on to a next big update? Because this is what we are talking about: not stopping the development, but just trying to first repair the game before breaking it even more which has been the case in every single update here.There are some flaws in your argumentation.
1. I never stated I was an expert, I said I did it for a living. There's a huge difference.
2. If you truly do this for a living, then how can you expect their software to be defect free? You should know that, considering you do it for a living, that all software has issues that are unavoidable due to the plethora of reasons that you should know happen as you seem them on a daily basis. Berating the developers because there are issues is pointless.
3. In your earlier discourse, you literally called the developers "incompetent" because their software has defects. But now you're doing an about-face and saying "well, we all know there are going to be issues". You can't jump on both sides of the argument.
Captsquee said:@UweTellkampf exactly, when something doesn't work you fix it. Pq isn't going to be able to take another hit of this caliber. People are getting fed up. I just like MTG and this is the only other MTG game on android. Sad thing is all I have left to do is events and thats not reason to want to keep playing or spend money on it.
Hibernum is already fixing the issues on a daily basis. People show up in the morning and work on the software all day. I'm sure some of them are putting in loads of overtime.So what is your argument then? Since they are already working on fixing the defects, what is it you're asking?
Gun Bunny said:
It's not that I expect any update or new content to be bug free. It's the nature of a game that has so many moving parts interacting with each other to have some issues on launch day. My problem with D3H is that the VAST majority of their bugs aren't "hey we couldn't feasibly test that weird combo out under those exact circumstances because who realistically has THOSE three cards in a deck together?" or "we couldn't anticipate the server load after a new release would do weird stuff with some features" but rather are discovered by nearly everyone within ten minutes of updating. If they are truly beta testing new content in house, then they are either:Steeme said:I challenge everyone in this thread to find a major game title that introduces no defects after a major release.
A )tragically understaffed
B ) hilariously incompetent
C ) deliberately skipping over serious bugs because of their inability or unwillingness to fix them in time to meet their release date, or
D ) some combination of the above
Transform was a core mechanic of SoI, and was broken from day one. That is the kind of bug that never should have made it to release, yet there it was, screwing things up for literally months.
My point is that you're not understanding (or listing) all of the reasons why the defects exist in the first place.There are a plethora of reasons why parts of the software get broken. I'm merely pointing out that since you don't actually work on the software, you don't actually know why these things happen. And if you don't know why it happens, then you can't possibly be in a position to tell the company how they should operate their business.
Regardless guys, I think I've had enough of this thread. I can see that we have a group of individuals that think they can do a better job than the professionals. My advice is for you to become friends, swap business cards, start a company, and write your own software. It's quite clear you can do a better job and you will make tons of money. Go for it.
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Of course undiscovered and/or unfixed bugs will make it to release. But my observation for mtgpq has been a consistently higher than expected number of high-visibility, and sometimes high-impact bugs. I fully believe that QA occurs, but I wonder if the type of testing performed might be quite narrow.
In response, we can all say "do more testing" or "do different kinds of testing", but our comments are in ignorance of the budget they have to work within. More testing would leave fewer resources for new content. That might be Captsquee's preference, and it can of course be argued that a higher quality game attracts and retains more players. Others may prefer that the rate of new content not be reduced; a consistently fresh game experience is also important for attracting and retaining players.
The bottom line is it's a business decision that none of us end-users know even half of the factors for. And it cannot be ruled out that what seems sub-optimal to some of us could in fact be better in some sense than all of the feasible alternatives.
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So basically if a car I buy is a lemon, I should shut up about it since I'm not an automotive engineer? Or try and find someone else who has had a similar experience and found a rival automaker, that's the ticket! What a blindingly obvious truth, why didn't I think of it before?
Oh that's right, because it's a logical fallacy. Just because I don't know why a bug is there neither negates my observation of it, nor does it invalidate my opinion.
To be clear, at no time whatsoever did I state, explicitly or otherwise, that I would do a better job.
My point has always been that the DEVS should be doing a better job, and clearly aren't.2 -
I don't know @Steeme you seem to have all the answers. I think what you're failing to realize is if your company wants my money they need to provide a quality product that makes me want to keep buying what you're selling. If your employees don't cut it ,get new ones. If your budget is to small causing sub standard product, find a cheaper way to do it right or prepare to go out of business. It's not my job to understand every aspect of your business nor do I care. What I care about is what my hard earned money is buying. Business does not thrive when you consistently disappoint your consumer base.1
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Hearthstone definitely has plenty of bugs. The problem is @Steeme's challenge is disingenuous. Why should I name a game that never introduces bugs? I don't need zero bugs to feel like a game developer cares about their product and is doing due diligence before releases, and I suspect the OP doesn't either.
For me personally, there have been a few particular red flags that suggest they have been moving too quickly recently. The most notable is the preponderance of pseudo-descriptive placeholder text (unassigned variables names?) that has appeared in various places recently, such as the Gods' PW ability in Trial of Zeal and the name of the chromatic boosters in the vault. This sort of issue seems (to my completely inexpert opinion) like it would be caught by literally almost any amount of testing. The fact that it wasn't suggests the product was rushed.
At the end of the day, this game feels a heck of a lot less polished than Hearthstone, even if the number of bugs is smaller.1 -
@steeme I think the assumption that no one else works on software is probably incorrect. No one is calling for the train of progression to stop, just maybe slowdown a little. Everyone is enamoured by booster crafting, yet critical application errors still exist and have for months now with no fix. No one is expecting big free it is impossible, in software development. I get frustrated with minor bugs, such as the prevent damage negated kill spells. That gets me once I learn and adapt. Bugs that cause systems to crash will get us over and over again. You cannot avoid or adapt to this. I am actually a little surprised you can't see the issue with critical errors as someone that works in software development.
The other factors that end-users cannot see, irrelevant. Companies in software place large amounts of money into fixing bugs. If the business plan cannot account to fix them, then the game is certainly on the back 50. Successful business plans fix what will have greater impact on success. Sure at this moment the crafting has a higher ceiling than fixing the crashes. The bugs (I only point to critical errors) will only get more difficult and more expensive to fix the more SDLC. Making it more economical to find and fix during development (thus beta testing) or at least early on after release. Since these issues are known and zero compensation is ever handed out for them you start to move into the unethical end of business.0 -
I am with @Gun Bunny on this one. Errors are part of life as we are far from perfect machines. However, the willingness to repeatedly use the player base as the quality control team is asinine.
You never thought to try and destroy one of those gods with a destroy spell?
You never tested to see if transform actually worked at all?
You didn't notice that if you moved a card around in your hand it had a host of visual errors?
Or maybe that is legitimately the plan. Don't even attempt to do surface level quality control, let the player base find the issues, and then move to fix them.
However, you better have some seriously good communication with the community if that's the case. It seems they don't even know its going on at times. Check out this quote from Brigby last week when the patch caused the game to have "Something went wrong" after a game.
Brigby said:Is this a persistent occurrence, or was it a one-off instance?
In addition, do you know if there was a commonality in the event?Answer: Yes, literally every time.. and every person was affected!
It's like they honestly don't even realize the servers are unstable and that a patch will cause the game to hang. Hard to fix what you are unaware of...
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Using players as QAs seem to be quite a norm nowadays for mobile games. Fixes can be easily patched. Why waste resources on QAs when customers can do the job. They might whine, some might quit, but overall, the company doesnt lose much.1
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You know what 'complex' means? It means 'caused by multiple elements of the game interacting in ways that could not be tracked down by simply turning the game on and playing a single game of it'.Steeme said:shteev said:
This is a silly thing to say. You're just hoping no-one will go for it, aren't youSteeme said:I challenge everyone in this thread to find a major game title that introduces no defects after a major release.
I mean, Hearthstone, for starters.Hearthstone has no bugs? I quote "The list of bugs in Hearthstone is too extensive and complex to list here."
Here's the first bug off that Hearthstone bug list:
'If Auchenai Soulpriest + Ivory Knight mortally wounds your Hero, you can still take one more action before dying'
How is that even slightly comparable to when, say, you stopped being able to tap on supports to reveal what they were in MTGPQ?
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I just lost another match to the app freezing when I hit pause in match. It's not my phone and it's been happening since I started playing in October. It's absolutely ridiculous that **** like that never gets fixed while they introduce new bugs constantly. I realize nothings ever be perfect, but this is a bit much especially considering how much money they want people to spend on this.0
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