5 clears for max progression is too much

DyingLegend

I view myself as a casual player. Some PVE events I will really focus on and hit max rewards but others I get to the 4 star reward and duck out. Sometimes I skip events all together because they can be too much work and I know I wont be able to hit top 10 even if I try my hardest so I get the rewards I want and that's good enough for me.

Same goes for PVP, if there is a 4 star I want I can hit 900, but most of the time I hit 650 and stop playing the event. Gets too annoying constantly getting smacked after 650 and not feeling like your going anywhere. Also I will have to do the shield jumping methods and what not and I can't really burn through HP because I need them for roster slots which cost a premium. I'm sitting at an 83 roster with over 1million ISO because most of the 4 stars I have are vaulted currently and im getting a cover here and there through bonus heroes and I haven't earned enough of the new 4 stars to dump iso into them because the last time I did that, the character got vaulted and took forever to finish.

I can definitely see how it can burn you out asking you play 5 nodes, i used to get annoyed about reward structures and what not but nothing is super important to me that I have to stress out about it in this game, the devs do what they want and I just ride the wave.

Vhailorx

4 clears per day is a minimum of 36 pve matches (more for some events). Some people can do their 4/6 clear in as little as 45 mins.  But those people have strong rosters and sometimes boost, so they hardly count as casual.  And for everyone else, even a fairly short average match time of 2 minutes means that 4/6 is almost 90 minutes a day once you account for load times and roster selection.  Every day.  Can anything that takes that long be described as "casual"?

Alsmir

It took me bloody 90 minutes to do 4 clears in the first sub. Then another 60! minutes for the last 2 clears. Annoying.

I'm just waiting for a new Premium VIP feature that for only 15$/month reduces the number of needed clears to 4. Would be similar to the latest improvements.

Beer40

broll said:

The question ultimately is should casuals expect to get max progression?  I agree 5 clears a day is certainly not casual, but if your goal is to play casual should you expect to get max?

The thing that really is a kick in the tinykitty for casuals is that they back loaded CP so severely.  I think people who stopped at 4 should be able to get the 25 CP they got before and the additional 8 CP should be higher and they choose if it's worth it to grind higher or not.

Should casuals expect to get max progression? No.
But they've changed the requirements of max progression and thus, the forum definition of casuals, which is unfortunate.
I don't think most people referred to 4 clears per node players as casuals before, and I don't think they should now. Hitting every node four times is far from casual play. 
It is, however, no longer max progression play. I think that would be acceptable to the entire player base if the rewards had remained the same and the extra rewards were given at point totals afterward, which is exactly what you're saying, and nearly everyone else is saying also. 
But they had a reason to back load the CP, and they're never going to tell us.
So yea, totally agree with you, but had to add the bold part.

MissChinch

Vhailorx said:

4 clears per day is a minimum of 36 pve matches (more for some events). Some people can do their 4/6 clear in as little as 45 mins.  But those people have strong rosters and sometimes boost, so they hardly count as casual.  And for everyone else, even a fairly short average match time of 2 minutes means that 4/6 is almost 90 minutes a day once you account for load times and roster selection.  Every day.  Can anything that takes that long be described as "casual"?

I think everyone that participates on the forums is likely several layers removed from casual...   I know I'm guilty of creeping my definition of casual way beyond what is reasonable... 

I've got buddies that play who usually hit all the DDQ nodes, play some (far less than 4x clears) of pve and occasionally play a pvp up to 575.  They occasionally buy some HP on a sale.  They've been playing for years, the 4*s they have covered are all pre-vaulting (their casual style is gonna insure they get all new characters partially covered before expiring and make no meaningful progress on the 4* tier by preventing them from drawing covers from heroes they've been accumulating over the past years)

That's who I think of as "casual" but maybe theres some less intensive classification thats eluding me?

Straycat

I hit max progression for the Hunt with only doing 5 clears for a few nodes. The 2 day sub in the middle really helped tho, checkmarked all nodes with full point regen. I think this change is gonna make Simulator a real pain, but otherwise I don't think it will be that bad. I think if I just check mark any goon nodes and wave nodes on top of the usual 4 clears I can finish up on the last day.

Zappa

If only D3 would put as much forethought and planning into positive changes that truly benefit the playerbase as they did into being obnoxious moneygrubbers, there would be no need for the millions of threads like this one (about one change or another)

MissChinch

Zappa said:

If only D3 would put as much forethought and planning into positive changes that truly benefit the playerbase as they did into being obnoxious moneygrubbers, there would be no need for the millions of threads like this one (about one change or another)

I haven't even tried, cause I'm lazy, but is there any way to look up how well the game is doing in terms of gross sales/monies and how thats trended?  

Cause if they're doing nothing but growing and becoming more profitable that would really soften my annoyance with them... 

The poor analogy being that I was really not a fan of the direction WoW went, but I was thoroughly impressed with their decisions from a business standpoint, it didn't even upset me that the game was changing in ways that I didn't find fun.

broll

Zappa said:

If only D3 would put as much forethought and planning into positive changes that truly benefit the playerbase as they did into being obnoxious moneygrubbers, there would be no need for the millions of threads like this one (about one change or another)

That's the testing they should do, try playing with playstyle enjoyment in mind over just purely nickle and diming and see if enough people reward those changes with money to make the a viable strategy. It certainly works for some games.

gravel

Vhailorx said:

gravel said:

I couldn't disagree more, but I never just do 4 clears.  I love the extra rewards, and hope they stay.

This is not an either/or question.  Demi gave more rewards to players fot 5+ clears.  That's s fine.  They also gave fewer rewards to 2-4 clears.  Why?  What purpose does this serve?

It may not be an either or question, but the OP was calling for a roll back to the old reward structure, which does make it an either/or statement.  As others have said, I would be fine if the reward structure gave the same rewards for 4 clears, the extra rewards for the difference to 5 clears, but I also don't know that "casual players" should be necessarily guaranteed max progression.

Ducky

*off to feedback*

Aidonis

Super huge fan of most of you assuming that a 4 clear player is a "casual" player. Casual in my eyes would be a once through, with maybe a few repeats to get any missed cp or tokens. Why we are now trying to discourage casual players is beyond me. 

It never ceases to amaze me how poorly run this game is. Between this ejection of casual players to the daily $25 cover "deal." Maybe it is time to up the subscription price to $15 or maybe even $20...because why not right?

Pogo

Orion said:

I agree with the above poster that wonders why casuals are complaining about the higher # of clears.  If you're getting max progression in every event, then you aren't a casual.

I don't play every PVE event. Free time, featured characters, and appealing rewards all have to align, so I only do a PVE in earnest once a month, if even that often.

More often, I only get a chance to do a serious clear on one day of a given event. Sometimes with effort and luck I can get all the HP. Now I'll only be able to get half as much HP unless I happen to have the opportunity to play an event in its entirety, so I'll probably just go back to joining events in the final hours to try to snipe placement rewards.


P.S. If you're going to screw around with the progression rewards and add extra steps, then give out more event tokens in progression.

Pongie

I'm all for making pve less of a grind. Half the progression points, compact the 6 clears required to green tick to earn all rewards down to 3 (sum all the iso into one reward, token and boost makes up the other 2 etc). Timer starts after 2 clears. Adjust the scaling accordingly. That should be enough

SpringSoldier

Beer40 said:

But they had a reason to back load the CP, and they're never going to tell us.
So yea, totally agree with you, but had to add the bold part.

The reason was to make us play more in the PVE, so we get more SHIELD intercepts, so we're more tempted to pay to get them when they're gone. Imo, the PVE has a lot more rewards and far easier to obtain then PVP, but you need to pay something. 

Wumpushunter

Why not stay at 4 clears and get those rewards and those that wish to do the 5th clear will get extra for doing so.  Does that not sound equitable?