The Death of Passion

jetnoctis
jetnoctis Posts: 128 Tile Toppler
in MtGPQ General Discussion
Brigby said:

Here are the next round of questions I'm asking the developers:

Will any other Masterpieces be buffed? (For example, Lightning Greaves)
Will players' Color Mastery ranks be affected when certain cards become restricted from PvP?
What can players expect for PvP rewards when the weekly events are adjusted?
Dear @Brigby, @LakeStone, @Hibernum_JC,

I would encourage a change to that last point to become not a question about adjustment, but an exhortation towards improvement of rewards. I feel it has been said multiple times before: the spark to do well in this game has been lost with the absolute gutting of rewards. No longer do we experience that same fever pitch drive which we once had to compete for worthwhile prizes (mythics, even if they ended up being dupes). What kept our passion alive and pulsating about every event was that chance, slim as it might be, that allowed us to aspire to greatness. The recent Breaking Points with Rishkar's Expertise as prize was orgiastic in its intensity, a harkening back to earlier times of glory! The situation now, as has been echoed many times before, is that we have become ambivalent, antipathetic, even, about the prizes which are now nowhere near correspondent to the effort required. Our desire to compete and win, that same desire which has made me play this game every single day since BFZ launched (a feat no other game has ever achieved) is dwindling. I even missed an event the other day, my first one ever, because I didn't see the point. Do the developers not hear and feel our keening about the death of passion? Do they not desire us to obsess over this game for more hours in the day than we probably should? That ardour is what drew me and countless others to this game, like no other gave ever has. Yet now, it begins to evanesce...

I conjecture that the developers may have felt that we had too many opportunities to get mythics in the past. I can appreciate a company wishing to make more profit - it is a business after all. But there is a difference between gently coaxing players to want to increase their spending, and eliminating their will to play entirely. To bolster the former and to avoid the latter, I argue the position that there absolutely still need to be mythics up for the winning in some events. Perhaps not as many as we had before, but it is a reasonable, defendable position that this occur at the very least for individual rewards, rather than coalition (though for both is my preferred option, for the record). This would get around the hypothetical developer worry that too many people were getting mythics (from coalitions) and those top coalitions were cementing their positions at the top forever, with no need to ever spend. Please note that I say this despite having been a part of the 2nd best ranked coalition in the game for quite a while, and with that even being so, I have still spent money on this game - because I truly loved it.

Having at least one mythic-up-for-grabs event per week would solve a number of the developers' problems with minimal impact on their bottom line. 
  • It would reignite our drive to win, that inexhaustible resource which this game had so successfully tapped for so long and which kept us coming back for more.
  • It would allow newer players the opportunity to catch up to the veterans because, coupled with the introduction of standards, there would be a viable way for a persistent and motivated new players to make headway in their collection, supplemented by some spending (I say this even though I am part of the Not.Another.Cent movement, which has always been a temporary stance until the situation improves for all players). 
  • It would restore our confidence that the developers want us to have an enjoyable game with rewards commensurate to the considerable efforts which they require, and that they are not just after our wallets and purses. Have respect of us, and we shall gladly reciprocate in turn.

In the end, the greatest gift such a move would endow would be to restore vitality to this game as we would once more have reason to reignite our extinguished fervour. Please let us want to succeed, to want to care, to let us love this game once more!
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Comments

  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    I echo this sentiment.  I would be shocked if the participation rate and spending rate hasn't dropped sharply. I don't care if I get top 5 or top 100 in EMO or FiRF... My coalition only cares to win for pride's sake. The vitality has been destroyed with nothing to play for.  However, I slightly disagree that individual rewards are the most important.  It's great to win a batting title, but it's even better to win the world series.
  • Sarahschmara
    Sarahschmara Posts: 554 Critical Contributor
    And for those worried about the rich getting richer, please remember that there is a big difference between getting a mythic and getting the mythic ones been chasing. Most mythics end up being dupes for the highly skilled veteran player
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    Sarahschmara said:
    And for those worried about the rich getting richer, please remember that there is a big difference between getting a mythic and getting the mythic ones been chasing. Most mythics end up being dupes for the highly skilled veteran player

    That's misleading at best. Everyone has to spin that wheel. In the absence of any advantage for anyone spining the wheel, the only way a person can get "richer" is to spin it more times. 

  • AngelForge
    AngelForge Posts: 325 Mover and Shaker
    I'm also against mythic cards as event prizes. The only people getting these are the ones who already have them.
    Everybody should have kind of equal chances, which is approximated by streamlined prizes.
  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
    I'm also against rewarding mythic for top prizes. Not everyone have equal chance at competing at the same level due to external factors.
    They just need to boost amount of crytal, jewels and runes for a perfect system.
    The way ties are handled in new update, too many people will be receiving mythic which I don't think D3 will do.
  • Phase
    Phase Posts: 157 Tile Toppler
    High numbers of perfect scores are easily managed by making the objectives tougher. In the planeswalker arena they are completely ridiculous, and Breaking Points was perhaps too easy. But somewhere in the middle should be enough to limit top placements to 10+ players in a 1000 player bracket.
  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
    You can give worthwhile prizes without constantly coming up with broken cards and selling them for cash.  They could put little icons next to your name when you place in the top 10 or 50 or 100 of an event.  They could let you use a special avatar.  They could let people see your lifetime win/loss rate in Training Grounds (or maybe the win/loss rate of the last 100 games you played in an event).  They could let you bling your decks with foils or alternate art variations of your favorite cards.  Maybe your name could display differently if you're gold / silver / platinum.

    Under the current system, in a 2 day event, the #1 player gets a rare, a booster pack and 60 crystals.  The #50 player gets a rare, a booster pack and 30 crystals.  That's not a lot of benefit for casting 5 vehicles per match in an enraged match, while keeping your life total below 20, while also not dying.  Meanwhile, you could buy the extra 30 crystals for $1 to $1.50.
  • DuskPaladin
    DuskPaladin Posts: 123 Tile Toppler
    edited May 2017
    I totally agree, we need worthwhile rewards, otherwise, everything else you've been working on will be useless.

    Who cares about deck slots if noone is playing? 

    Who cares about matchmaking if noone is competing?

    Who cares about coalitions if there's no common goal?  

    Who cares about fancy masterpieces if noone gets them?

    Also I'd like to talk to those who are against handling mythics (the only worthwhile reward, unless they include @EDHdad's excellent alternate prizes). You being against handing out mythics is like being against severing a limb to prevent further infections and save your life. You may be against mythics all you like, but we need meaningful rewards like them or the game will just die. You won't have any game left to play.

    Another thing, it's funny how on one hand, a few players talk about the need to limit rewards and that they were handing too many of them. While on the other hand, those same players say that it's a case of the rich getting richer. So instead of wishing to make it more accessible to more players and create more new riches, you are against it, and then complain that only a selected few benefits from them. You, yourself, stopped any chances of ladder ascension with your contradicting views.
  • AngelForge
    AngelForge Posts: 325 Mover and Shaker
    edited May 2017
    DuskPaladin said:
    I totally agree, we need worthwhile rewards, otherwise, everything else you've been working on will be useless.

    Who cares about deck slots if noone is playing? 

    Who cares about matchmaking if noone is competing?

    Who cares about coalitions if there's no common goal?  

    Who cares about fancy masterpieces if noone gets them?

    Also I'd like to talk to those who are against handling mythics (the only worthwhile reward, unless they include @EDHdad's excellent alternate prizes). You being against handing out mythics is like being against severing a limb to prevent further infections and save your life. You may be against mythics all you like, but we need meaningful rewards like them or the game will just die. You won't have any game left to play.

    Another thing, it's funny how on one hand, a few players talk about the need to limit rewards and that they were handing too many of them. While on the other hand, those same players say that it's a case of the rich getting richer. So instead of wishing to make it more accessible to more players and create more new riches, you are against it, and then complain that only a selected few benefits from them. You, yourself, stopped any chances of ladder ascension with your contradicting views.
    I think that a part of a mythic (mana jewels) are enough.

    And by the way, it's funny that you think that the ones who don't have all the good cards have a chance to actually get the top prizes. I think, you are just seeing your own perfomance and extrapolate from that, that everybody has a chance to be a top prize winner...

    So, I'm all for more prizes, but more in the bottom and less in the top. 

    And stating that the players who said that it was okay to cut the prizes, are probably the ones who never got these prizes in the first place, right? So, saying that they stopped their chances to ascend the ladder is just false.

    And D3go cut the prizes, not the once complaining about them or the once who are fine with that.

    But it seems like you are all still here and playing the game?

    Edit:
    @DuskPaladin
    I hope, I don't sound to harsh in my answer. I let it be as I wrote it, but I want to add that I was a little but upset at that moment. 
    If you feel attacked in some way please let know.
  • Froggy
    Froggy Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    All the comment on the rich getting richer.

    1. How did the rich get there in the first place?

    2. I guess if we restrict the means of point 1 above, we will have this:

       • The rich
       • The poor and frustrated, who will never recommend the game to new people

    3. The result will be:

       • The rich

    and

        •Therich complaining that the game needs new content...
  • AngelForge
    AngelForge Posts: 325 Mover and Shaker
    Well, "rich" means having good cards, I think.
    So, the rich are rich because of luck and/or money investments.

    But luck is a major factor. We all know the posts of people who downed a lot of money for nothing or little gain (if they bought crystal and packs with that).

    But once you were more lucky than the others, it's way easier for you to get to a top spot. 
    If that means than more mythic cards for you (and not for the others), the gap gets bigger...
    So I think, jewels are a good way to go to streamline this prizes. Of course, top 5 should get more than top 100 but, I think everybody (in a certain range) should get something and the discrepancy should be to high.

    But one other thing comes to my mind.
    This problem would probably no existent, if we would have a proper leaderboard and matchmaking accordingly to it. With that, technically everyone would have a chance to get to the top  because (s)he is matched against opponent that are kind of equal in strength (here good rares and mythic cards).
    I really hope to see this happen some day.
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor

    They have a good system in place, the problem is that the inherent value of Jewels right now is much lower than it should be.  I also think the "spread" on rewards should be a little steeper.  It's much more difficult to place in the 1-5 bracket than the next bracket (and so on), so the difference in rewards should reflect that.

    Two-step solution:

    1. Increase the spread on rewards.  More Jewels/Crystals for higher brackets.  This spurs competition.

    2. Elite packs need to draw three cards and let you choose one.  Boom.  Now all of a sudden everyone is dying to get their hands on as many Jewels as they can, and now it seems like a worthy replacement for Mythic prizes.


  • Sorin81
    Sorin81 Posts: 558 Critical Contributor
    @AngelForge

    Not sure why I would feel attacked, I haven't yet given an opinion on this topic.
    But thanks for the mention! 
  • AngelForge
    AngelForge Posts: 325 Mover and Shaker
    Sorin81 said:
    @AngelForge

    Not sure why I would feel attacked, I haven't yet given an opinion on this topic.
    But thanks for the mention! 
    Sorry, I mixed things up. I meant @DuskPaladin
    I will edit that.
  • Sorin81
    Sorin81 Posts: 558 Critical Contributor
    Well since I've been brought into this conversation I may as well give an opinion.

    I have no problem with mythic rewards, especially for coalition events. I don't think that every event should revolve around mythics though.
    I like the alternative rewards that have been mentioned and think things like that should be used for events not giving mythic cards. A once a month event offering a mythic/exclusive seems reasonable to me.

    I'm all for increasing rewards across the board but I understand that may not be the best policy from a business perspective.

    IMO the better the reward the better the competition for the reward. 
    A game that is not rewarding is a game that is not fun to play.

    Before anyone starts jumping on me for supporting a "rich getting richer" platform understand that I'm not one of the "rich". 
    I don't have a large collection of cards (mythic or otherwise), I don't have all the planeswalkers, I don't have a large collection of runes, crystals or jewels. Even so, if it were allowed, I would give everything I could to a new player to help them get started now because (a.) I'm just that type of person and (b.) D3 has made it harder for people at every level of the game to advance.



  • Dropspot
    Dropspot Posts: 200 Tile Toppler
    We need better rewards.

    I am ok with a mithyc card as reward every month, but I think we need better prizes for top 5 finishes and this could be a encrease in jewels. 

    I am a top 5 player in silver and by the current rate I can only buy a elite pack every 2,5 months. I think this should improve to at least 1 every month.

  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm all about better rewards, but I very much dislike exclusive mythic rewards. I've always felt people should be able to procure the cards they want. Ideally, if exclusive mythics must exist, they would work like Saheeli. They should eventually are made available via cash or crystals, minus the several-months wait. 

    Exclusive cards that only a few people get to play with really violates the spirit of MTG  as a collectible trading card game. 




  • DuskPaladin
    DuskPaladin Posts: 123 Tile Toppler
    @AngelForge , don't worry, no offense taken.

    Now, let's take last Breaking Point, the top 50 in each 3 000 players bracket in Platinum received Rishkar's Expertise. Let's say it's always the same 50 players who always earn the rewards. Now imagine that we made smaller brackets of 1 000 players, now it wouldn't only be those same 50 players, we'll have tripled the number of players who will get the rewards, so 100 new so-called riches. We could add even more brackets, rewards for the top 100 players, etc. 

    I talk about the mythic reward because it was the only interesting reward that kept people motivated. A guaranteed rare is not an interesting reward, nor 60 crystals, nor 20 Mana Jewels. Something equivalent to a mythic should be the golden standard for the top prize, and you scale from there according for the rest of the rewards. The problem for many players was that the gap between getting a mythic or a rare was too great. We have jewels now for that.

    For instance:

    Top 5: 400 Mana Jewels (= 1 guaranteed mythic)
    6-25: 350 Mana Jewels
    26-50: 300 Mana Jewels
    51-100: 250 Mana Jewels
    etc.

    I'm not suggesting that we should use those numbers (they are just random untested numbers), but we can see now how the gap between the "rich" and the "poor" wouldn't be so great.

    You could lower the rewards even further to:
    Top 5 200 Mana Jewels
    6-25: 175 Mana Jewels
    etc.

    As long as it's not something as meaningless as 20 Mana Jewels.



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