Sad observation from today's Burrito

zodiac339

This isn't related to the mission itself, so I figured it should be left out of events.

1. 2* Human Torch can do more damage with green AP than X Force Wolverine. His red also does more damage than X-Force for (effectively) 2 less AP.
2. Took a look at my level 150 Riri out of curiosity. Her green at 2 does 1213, and will do 1745 once it gets to rank 3.
3. I made these comparisons to a level 277 XFWolverine with Rank 5 X Force.

Conclusion: X Force is long overdue to be un-nerfed. Also, I'm seriously tempted to use 120 CP to finish Riri and Champ her.

Jonny1Punch

The Xforce nerf was completely unnecessary and senseless ( just like the recent death of OML).

XFW only needed his surgical strike tweaked to either not gain ap or not drain the opponent of it. As usual D3 felt the need to completely overdo it and just flatline him.

Punisher5784

But Human Torch doesn't have board shake! I agree, his low damage was clear when X-23 was released. The devs value board shake really high, unless your Juggernaut. The new Starlord is a perfect example. 

The one thing I do not like about XFW is unlike his 2/3/5* counterparts, he does not have a passive heal or strike tiles. Yes I want variants to be different but he never feels like Wolverine. I don't like the CD heal. His green should leave strike tiles after the board shake. That would help the damage output. I still love his black but it's inconsistent. Let it destroy the opponents strong AP again.

As far as Riri, I won't give my opinion of her because some players were offended in my previous post but regardless who it is, if the 4* is in the latest 12 pool, sending the CP is not worth it. You're sacrificing 4/5 pulls for 1 cover that you will likely pull. I considered it with Carol, Medusa and Carol but eventually the covers came and I did not have to sell their covers. 

Starfury

Board shake is weighed quite heavily in the power of an ability, as it can (usually for the AI ) result in massive additional damage and AP gain.

Just take a look at the damage numbers of Cyclops' Red and compare it to other red nukes. He too pays a hefty price for that one (targeted) removed tile.

Wolvie's green also pays a (maybe too) hefty price for it's massive (random) board shake. The main problem is its inconsistency. When I used him in the Thanos boss battles, his green skill wildly fluctuated between doing pitiful damage to causing massive cascades earning 2-3 times as much AP as it cost me.

DrDevilDinosaur

Punisher5784 said:

The one thing I do not like about XFW is unlike his 2/3/5* counterparts, he does not have a passive heal or strike tiles. Yes I want variants to be different but he never feels like Wolverine. I don't like the CD heal. His green should leave strike tiles after the board shake. That would help the damage output. I still love his black but it's inconsistent. Let it destroy the opponents strong AP again.

Interesting. I love XFWs healing/damage CD, even if it's about 1 turn too long to be fully reliable by itself.

shartattack

I would love for them to fix him this offseason.  I have him sitting max-covered, but he is far down the priority list due to his underwhelmingness.

Wonko33

His health is so low as well, only time I play him is in PvE when he or 4*deadpool are boosted , they are a fun pair

Historically, his health was low because he was so powerful on offense and could heal, now it's a joke.

Edit: Oh he was great for the Thanos boss fight though

Punisher5784

shartattack said:

I would love for them to fix him this offseason.  I have him sitting max-covered, but he is far down the priority list due to his underwhelmingness.

They will likely rebalance Drax since he's the only GotG character not getting a variant, plus he's lousy altogether.

Quebbster

People keep underestimating Drax. Sure he's slow, but he has excellent damage output when boosted. He was great in Come and get me appropriately enough.

SnowcaTT

I've said for some time I don't believe old X-force (good green, good black that steals) would be broken. Green damage way up alone would make him somewhat playable. But low health and what he currently is....hasn't been worth playing since nerf.

CT1888

At 140, he has about 1000 health less than the fragile 3* Storm in DP vs Heroes.
And Drax is a beast boosted.

JackTenrec

Punisher5784 said:

But Human Torch doesn't have board shake! 

To be pedantic, Torch red actually does destroy two red tiles, so it's technically board shake, although really it's more like board nudge.

GrimSkald

Jonny1Punch said:

The Xforce nerf was completely unnecessary and senseless ( just like the recent death of OML).

XFW only needed his surgical strike tweaked to either not gain ap or not drain the opponent of it. As usual D3 felt the need to completely overdo it and just flatline him.

His black absolutely needed nerfing - honestly it's fine in it's current version - you can generate some massive damage with it as well as good board shake and/or hurting your opponent's mana gain.  His green was probably a bit too powerful, but I'll agree that they took it too far.  Honestly, I'd probably keep the current damage but lower the cost - make it a more easily accessible board-shake.  As it is, he is a fairly weak 4* - he was hit pretty hard when it was done, and power creep has made him worse.

I'll note that Xforce was my first finished 4*.  Before the nerf he was an absolute monster - getting off "Surgical Strike" basically meant you won about 3/4 of the time (and you knew when that 1/4 was happening based on the board.)

I'll also add that I still see a lot of OML.  Despite the Nerf he's still a fairly solid character.

Quebbster said:

People keep underestimating Drax. Sure he's slow, but he has excellent damage output when boosted. He was great in Come and get me appropriately enough.

I'll agree that people underestimate Drax, but his black just plain sucks.  I'll take a character with three colors with one who has effectively two any day.  His red and purple aren't bad, though.

Hendross

Jonny1Punch said:

The Xforce nerf was completely unnecessary and senseless ( just like the recent death of OML).

XFW only needed his surgical strike tweaked to either not gain ap or not drain the opponent of it. As usual D3 felt the need to completely overdo it and just flatline him.

Quebbster

GrimSkald said:

Quebbster said:

People keep underestimating Drax. Sure he's slow, but he has excellent damage output when boosted. He was great in Come and get me appropriately enough.

I'll agree that people underestimate Drax, but his black just plain sucks.  I'll take a character with three colors with one who has effectively two any day.  His red and purple aren't bad, though.

Heh, black was my favorite color to get 30AP in since that meant I could just use The Destroyer over and over until Thanos was reduced to a wet spot on the pavement. I believe it did 17K damage without any reservations, which is not too shabby. Destroying countdowns isn't worth it though, but it's pretty good to use without countdowns on the board.
On the other hand I never used his purple, that AP went to Ant-man for repeated Grow punches.

Crowl

GrimSkald said:

Jonny1Punch said:

The Xforce nerf was completely unnecessary and senseless ( just like the recent death of OML).

XFW only needed his surgical strike tweaked to either not gain ap or not drain the opponent of it. As usual D3 felt the need to completely overdo it and just flatline him.

His black absolutely needed nerfing - honestly it's fine in it's current version - you can generate some massive damage with it as well as good board shake and/or hurting your opponent's mana gain.  His green was probably a bit too powerful, but I'll agree that they took it too far.  Honestly, I'd probably keep the current damage but lower the cost - make it a more easily accessible board-shake.  As it is, he is a fairly weak 4* - he was hit pretty hard when it was done, and power creep has made him worse.

I'll note that Xforce was my first finished 4*.  Before the nerf he was an absolute monster - getting off "Surgical Strike" basically meant you won about 3/4 of the time (and you knew when that 1/4 was happening based on the board.)

I'll also add that I still see a lot of OML.  Despite the Nerf he's still a fairly solid character.

Quebbster said:

People keep underestimating Drax. Sure he's slow, but he has excellent damage output when boosted. He was great in Come and get me appropriately enough.

I'll agree that people underestimate Drax, but his black just plain sucks.  I'll take a character with three colors with one who has effectively two any day.  His red and purple aren't bad, though.

The only real problem surgical strike has for me is one that is shared by a few characters, fire a power once and it is done even if the match isn't, maybe they should tweak it so it can be more readily used again, the hitting the strongest colour made sense back when it drained ap, but it no longer does that.

As far as his green, they should stop overvaluing the board shake element of it and reduce the cost of the attack to make it spammable as a contrast to his surgical strike.

His yellow should be altered to be a passive, simply with an ap threshold, drop the amount healed if needed to stop it from being overpowered in that form and it fits far better in the wolverine and adjacent group of characters.

Milk Jugz

Quebbster said:

People keep underestimating Drax. Sure he's slow, but he has excellent damage output when boosted. He was great in Come and get me appropriately enough.

And his secret weapon was great!! If I got 30 purple ap from the blue gem, I would plant that tile, then hit Phoenix purple next turn and add 5 red tiles and deal 17k+ damage AND still have my turn left. Drax is definitely undervalued in the community

smkspy

I felt this way playing this crash, but then during the thanos event he became one of my mvps for its entire duration . 

He definitely could.use some reworking, but he still is a viable given the right environment.

Warbringa

No Drax is still below par for what he is supposed to do in 4* meta.  Of course when boosted, most 4* damage is really good (compared to when unboosted) but all of his powers are very dependent on certain conditions (countdowns, ally firing powers) etc and the cost of his powers are not great for the damage and especially due to its conditional nature.  His purple is bad, because you have to pay a sunk cost of losing a turn (never a good thing) and then placing a countdown tile which can then be removed by matches or board shakes. He is all damage and has no other real benefits (AP manipulation, tile producer, defense, tile destroyer, etc) and the issue is that there are many more candidates that fill his roll much better as damage dealers. His black is decent, his red is ok and I think his purple is below average myself.  He would seem to be a great match with re-worked Star Lord 4* but since two of their colors overlap, it isn't as great of a pair.

Taganov

I had a fully leveled XFW pre-nerf, and a nerf was completely justified. Insane damage, board shake, AP gain and enemy AP denial was too much for one move. I rode the train for all it was worth, but got off promptly after his unjustified gelding . IMO, Surgical Strike should do one of the following:

1. Generate AP
2. Destroy enemy AP
3. Destroy x number of tiles of a color chosen by the player (all at 5?)

I think 2 & 3 are better, more thematic options. I thought the other rebalances were good, frankly; particularly the change to yellow, since it can be used both offensively and defensively.

The Drax discussion is a head scratcher to me. If a character has to be boosted (by what is it, 100 levels?) to be considered good, it's not a good character. Any skill that 'ends the turn' without even delivering a payload is a bad one. Drax needs work. He's neither good nor niche. 

nickaraxnos

Wolvies green needs to be changed. Ironically 3* rocket and groot can do more damage with board shake at the same color. He also has better healing