A Discussion About Off-Topic Posts

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Stale Content..

shteev

Brigby said:

*Removed Off-Topic posts. Please keep all comments relevant to the topic in the original post. Thank you!

I think one of the reasons that we tend to go off topic and make jokes instead of talking about relevant topics in MTGPQ, is that there really aren't a lot of new things to talk about as we haven't seen a whole lot of new content around here recently, and the content that we have has grown stale.

We'd like some fresh content, but all we have is stale content.

madwren

Also, with all due respect, occasional off-topic digressions are what makes an enjoyable community.

AngelForge

@Brigby
Sorry for being offtopic here, but I feel like there is some cherry picking done.
For example, a lot of suggestions posted in the "general discussion" topic are not moved to the topic where they should be. 
Some posts are deleted because they are offtopic but a lot are not... So, remove all offtopic posts or none. 
Anything else is inconsistent.
Furthermore, the one time I noticed a thread being moved was a post containing a video in how to create and sustain a good free to play game. That thread was moved to "other games" topic as if it does not concern D3go and there games, when a lot of the people visiting this forum have a feeling that the developers are not doing such a good job at the moment. Hard to please everyone, I know, but there, again, it felt like cherry picking to me.

 

losdamianos

madwren said:

Also, with all due respect, occasional off-topic digressions are what makes an enjoyable community.

If only there would be an option to mark post as an offtopic.....

shteev

Perhaps we could tag certain threads with [off topic content allowed]? That might go some way to prevent the content being posted in them from becoming stale.

Brigby

The reason the moderators and I try to remove as much off-topic content from threads as possible is to make sure the original purpose of the thread is retained. An example is the original thread where the above comments came from: What was originally a constructive thread discussing the stale event schedule had deviated into the last 1/3rd of the discussion talking about off-topic posts. (Hence why I created a new thread)

This is even more important to monitor when the topic being discussed is of high importance to the community. A thread talking about a desired feature or a controversial change can easily get derailed by an off-topic quip, and potentially snowball from there, losing out on any future constructive feedback.

The more off-topic comments within a discussion, the harder it becomes to identify the key points of feedback among all of the sarcasm or irrelevant content.

Laeuftbeidir

My personal opinion:
The off-topic posts are mostly a symptom, not the problem itself.
Why are people switching to off-topic after a short while?
That is the question you should ask yourself.
Just my opinion:
Because it doesn't feel like there is a reason to keep on topic. Why should we discuss changes in the event schedule, or other *fill in whatever*, if we all (think we) know one thing:
 we only discuss to discuss. Nobody who can actually change something seems to be interested. Feedback from official side...well, sometimes there is a slight chance that the 1hour/month window opens and we get to hear something.

Also - why are people posting everything in this one subforum? Suggestions are totally ignored in the suggestion forum, and here are at least some people discussing these topics.

A little advice - if red names would participate more frequently on discussions, they could steer the thread in a direction that really matters to you, and the sarcasm and irrelevant content would become less.

madwren

I have to agree with Laeuftbeidir.

Let's pretend that we're 50 people stuck in a discussion room waiting for a lecture to begin.

"Why are you here?" someone might ask. Their neighbor might respond, "I'd like to discuss the event schedule, because I think we need more variance and novelty," to which another person nearby says, "Yes, and it'd also be great if they could discuss their plans for the future."

For the first several minutes, people will be engaged with the topic. However, as time passes without the lecturer appearing, people will begin to digress. They'll fill the quiet air with their own words and anecdotes and sarcasm and irrelevant content. They'll make small talk about their families and pets. They'll crack jokes.

That's what we do. We're here to talk, or we wouldn't bother coming to the forums. We're here to make suggestions and ask questions. But when the only people we wind up talking to are ourselves, then yeah, we're going to wind up making a LOT of small talk.

THEMAGICkMAN

All of what @madwren and @Laeuftbeidir said. If there was more to talk about, yknow perhaps some posts from the devs, then we'd talk about it. If JC or Will commented on Stale Content then I guarantee you that we'd keep on topic and continue talking about the topic.

shteev

It does seem to me that feedback is rather OT being posted in General Discussion anyway, given that there is a specific sub-forum for it.

bk1234

Brigby said:

The reason the moderators and I try to remove as much off-topic content from threads as possible is to make sure the original purpose of the thread is retained. An example is the original thread where the above comments came from: What was originally a constructive thread discussing the stale event schedule had deviated into the last 1/3rd of the discussion talking about off-topic posts. (Hence why I created a new thread)

This is even more important to monitor when the topic being discussed is of high importance to the community. A thread talking about a desired feature or a controversial change can easily get derailed by an off-topic quip, and potentially snowball from there, losing out on any future constructive feedback.

The more off-topic comments within a discussion, the harder it becomes to identify the key points of feedback among all of the sarcasm or irrelevant content.

@Brigby the problem is that judging something to be off-topic can be rather subjective -- one of my teammates had a post removed recently that we all agreed was quite on-topic, but whoever removed it didn't get his sense of humor. (I'm forming a theory that you do not have any British mods-- you really should get a few-- they'd add some color (colour) to this place) 

Perhaps before you and the mods get delete-happy you should ask the OP to explain their comment and give them 24 hours to respond. 

Having read the TOS quite thoroughly for this community, I think we both know sarcasm is not a violation -- and just because some mods don't have the capacity to read between the lines doesn't mean the rest of us are affected the same way. 

I'd actually go as far as saying many of us enjoy it. 

gruntface

If sarcasm was a violation I can think of a few perma-bans long overdue.

On an related note, is being on topic regarding a post about off topic content in itself off topic? And would that then become appropriate again or need to be deleted?

My head is hurting thinking about it so I'm off for a little lie down and probably a solid kip.

THEMAGICkMAN

I like deploy the gatewatch. 

That's perfectly suitable for this discussion as it's about off topic posts... But then that means that's not off topic... So it's on topic but this discussion is for off topic posts, but if all off topic posts are on topic then what? I think I need to lie down as well. 

shteev

So, wait, you guys reckon I could post something like this, without being slung in jail?

"If you get 5,000 likes, you can buy a LOL pack, which will give you a 3% chance of opening a 25 LOL badge."

I dunno, it seems like we might be making it harder it becomes to identify the key points of feedback among all of the sarcasm or irrelevant content.

That's one way of looking at it.

Although... I think you can still read this thread, and see what AngelForge and Madwren and Laeuftbeidir and bken1234 have posted, can't you? All this OT content doesn't somehow negate or cover up the points they have to make.

The fact is that if you want feedback from this thread, you're going to have to read each post, and judge whether it's useful or not. Even if it is on topic, some of it is probably going to be ill thought out, and no use as feedback anyway. And... er.... you're going to have to read each post anyway, since if it IS off topic, or contravening forum rules, then it's hardly going to moderate itself.

Matthew

OP is OT...

bk1234

gruntface said:

If sarcasm was a violation I can think of a few perma-bans long overdue.

On an related note, is being on topic regarding a post about off topic content in itself off topic? And would that then become appropriate again or need to be deleted?

My head is hurting thinking about it so I'm off for a little lie down and probably a solid kip.

You make a fair point, fine sir. Especially since we (the non mod people) cannot flag something for being off-topic anymore. 

babar3355

You guys are getting way off topic of the topic of off topic

Laeuftbeidir

THEMAGICkMAN said:

All of what @madwren and @Laeuftbeidir said. If there was more to talk about, yknow perhaps some posts from the devs, then we'd talk about it. If JC or Will commented on Stale Content then I guarantee you that we'd keep on topic and continue talking about the topic.

maybe not a guarantee for that, but the percentage of sarcastic posts like

 shteev said:

It does seem to me that feedback is rather OT being posted in General Discussion anyway, given that there is a specific sub-forum for it.

or

bken1234 said:

gruntface said:
* a lot of things*

You make a fair point, fine sir. Especially since we (the non mod people) cannot flag something for being off-topic anymore. 

would decline.
also, they wouldn't switch that fast from "beeing relevant for the topic", like @THEMAGICkMAN was in his first statement, to the medium-relevant sarcastic statements also quotet above to..well, as regarded in this forum, there is not much of sarcastic statements left: they become all cynic or passive agressive - or both, since you can use the one very well to express the other.

THEMAGICkMAN said:

I like deploy the gatewatch. 

That's perfectly suitable for this discussion as it's about off topic posts... But then that means that's not off topic... So it's on topic but this discussion is for off topic posts, but if all off topic posts are on topic then what? I think I need to lie down as well. 

BTW: what happens with such kind of posts?
Sarcasm on topic by using a sarcastic example that itself is off topic(well played, Sir!)  

shteev said:

So, wait, you guys reckon I could post something like this, without being slung in jail?

"If you get 5,000 likes, you can buy a LOL pack, which will give you a 3% chance of opening a 25 LOL badge."

I dunno, it seems like we might be making it harder it becomes to identify the key points of feedback among all of the sarcasm or irrelevant content.

That's one way of looking at it.

Although... I think you can still read this thread, and see what AngelForge and Madwren and Laeuftbeidir and bken1234 have posted, can't you? All this OT content doesn't somehow negate or cover up the points they have to make.

The fact is that if you want feedback from this thread, you're going to have to read each post, and judge whether it's useful or not. Even if it is on topic, some of it is probably going to be ill thought out, and no use as feedback anyway. And... er.... you're going to have to read each post anyway, since if it IS off topic, or contravening forum rules, then it's hardly going to moderate itself.

As far as I can tell, the moderation improved, compared to the situation some months ago, but is still far away from what it should be. 
Is the moderation of the forum implemented in any job description? If no: oooookay....if yes: don't forget that a forum like this needs a bit of guidance to work properly: you can't just expect the users to behave optimal if you don't take care for it (and  "cleaning up" everything that doesn't "fit" every once in a while is not "taking care"). A bit of guidance in the threads would be very productive. Answering questions is helpful : asking questions is way more valuable! An answer to a question shows: We've read it, here you go!..but in most of the cases this leads to more questions. A question concerning a topic shows: We've read it - we took the time to think about it - we want to hear more of *whatever it is about*

Also, a well-thought implementation of the board in the job descriptions of the developers wouldn't cost them much time and make them appear hear..not for hours everyday, but on a regular base. And since Brigby is already collecting the feedback of us in the forum - why not highlighting some threads to them to answer?

Matthew

Laeuftbeidir said:

THEMAGICkMAN said:

All of what @madwren and @Laeuftbeidir said. If there was more to talk about, yknow perhaps some posts from the devs, then we'd talk about it. If JC or Will commented on Stale Content then I guarantee you that we'd keep on topic and continue talking about the topic.

maybe not a guarantee for that, but the percentage of sarcastic posts like

 shteev said:

It does seem to me that feedback is rather OT being posted in General Discussion anyway, given that there is a specific sub-forum for it.

or

bken1234 said:

gruntface said:
* a lot of things*

You make a fair point, fine sir. Especially since we (the non mod people) cannot flag something for being off-topic anymore. 

would decline.
also, they wouldn't switch that fast from "beeing relevant for the topic", like @THEMAGICkMAN was in his first statement, to the medium-relevant sarcastic statements also quotet above to..well, as regarded in this forum, there is not much of sarcastic statements left: they become all cynic or passive agressive - or both, since you can use the one very well to express the other.

THEMAGICkMAN said:

I like deploy the gatewatch. 

That's perfectly suitable for this discussion as it's about off topic posts... But then that means that's not off topic... So it's on topic but this discussion is for off topic posts, but if all off topic posts are on topic then what? I think I need to lie down as well. 

BTW: what happens with such kind of posts?
Sarcasm on topic by using a sarcastic example that itself is off topic(well played, Sir!)  

shteev said:

So, wait, you guys reckon I could post something like this, without being slung in jail?

"If you get 5,000 likes, you can buy a LOL pack, which will give you a 3% chance of opening a 25 LOL badge."

I dunno, it seems like we might be making it harder it becomes to identify the key points of feedback among all of the sarcasm or irrelevant content.

That's one way of looking at it.

Although... I think you can still read this thread, and see what AngelForge and Madwren and Laeuftbeidir and bken1234 have posted, can't you? All this OT content doesn't somehow negate or cover up the points they have to make.

The fact is that if you want feedback from this thread, you're going to have to read each post, and judge whether it's useful or not. Even if it is on topic, some of it is probably going to be ill thought out, and no use as feedback anyway. And... er.... you're going to have to read each post anyway, since if it IS off topic, or contravening forum rules, then it's hardly going to moderate itself.

As far as I can tell, the moderation improved, compared to the situation some months ago, but is still far away from what it should be. 
Is the moderation of the forum implemented in any job description? If no: oooookay....if yes: don't forget that a forum like this needs a bit of guidance to work properly: you can't just expect the users to behave optimal if you don't take care for it (and  "cleaning up" everything that doesn't "fit" every once in a while is not "taking care"). A bit of guidance in the threads would be very productive. Answering questions is helpful : asking questions is way more valuable! An answer to a question shows: We've read it, here you go!..but in most of the cases this leads to more questions. A question concerning a topic shows: We've read it - we took the time to think about it - we want to hear more of *whatever it is about*

Also, a well-thought implementation of the board in the job descriptions of the developers wouldn't cost them much time and make them appear hear..not for hours everyday, but on a regular base. And since Brigby is already collecting the feedback of us in the forum - why not highlighting some threads to them to answer?

I just read a doctorate-level thesis on the subject of staying on topic in a thread about being off topic. **** is wrong with this place!?

THEMAGICkMAN

LOL ^^ 

(Adding extra words to get over word limit.) Is that on topic? I don't know. I'm just confused at this point. I'm gonna go have another lie down.