Should vaulted characters be essential in pve?

Starfury

If they remove them from PVE they might as well just remove them from the game altogether.

Give everyone an elite token as compensation per character removed - Voila, dilution solved!

MarkersMake said:

Look, if you don't already have the 4* character for the current PvE then you cannot win the 4* placement reward. You just can't. By the time you reach that 4* progression reward you are well out of the running.

So that means that for the NEXT PvE you also cannot win the 4* placement award, for the same reason, (unless you happen to already have it rostered). Vaulting makes that much less likely, particularly for newer players. 

Stop me when you see a pattern here. 

What would be the harm in reversing the placement and progression rewards? ie Current progression reward = next essential. Current essential = current placement reward. 

Fair point, however that really only affects a tiny number of players in the first place. Considering it's top 10 of SCL8 and top 5 of SCL7, I would be well within the margin of error when saying that noone gets 4* from placement.

Of course you could also argue that it doesn't make sense that you can only win the required character for a PVE before and after the event it's required.
Also, your system wouldn't really work for the devs as far as new releases are concerned.

Suddenreal

MaxxPowerz said:

It's a fair question and I'm not sure if there is a right answer.

Yes, there is a right answer. It's "this is a terrible idea".

Like it has been said previously, it is a way to obtain a cover of a 4*. Yes, I have all 4*'s, but the reason why I got them is because I was able to grab some when they were essential in PVE events. You won't be able to get full progression if you don't have all essentials, but you'll be able to get the 4*. Removing vaulted 4*'s from essentials is the worst idea since, well, vaulting (without putting a decent alternative in place, sorry, bonus hero's isn't enough). It is just removing another chance of getting a rare cover.

For me, competing in high level is reaching top ten, which gives you the four star for next event, so, you get the essential for the next one. So, what's the problem, exactly? 

Quebbster

The whole point of placement rewards being essential in the next event is to give those who place well an advantage in the next event. I see nothing wrong with that. Missing out on one essential node is not the end of the world, you can still get decent placement in the next event with a little dedication.
It is probably good not to chain vaulted rewards though, and it's also good to avoid vaulted essentials on new releases.

vinsensual

I would think the devs put some foresight into the essentials rotation so that the OP doesn't find him/herself in the situation that they predicted.  It has already been noted in a separate thread that the 4* essential has been skewed towards the unvaulted (Wasp was an essential just 3 months ago, IMHB and Jean have been mia since halloween I bet).  So while there will be events where new players might not have the vaulted character, the next event, if it's not a new release, will most likely feature someone that is accessible.  If they're regularly spending their CP like D3 wants. 

SummerGlau

If the Vaulted 4's couldn't be featured in PvE that would be one less way to get covers for them
Personally I think ONLY Vaulted 4's should be featured

I for one however do not look forward to whatever next event has my 2/0/3 Ant Man featured, but I will appreciate getting another cover for him

mpqr7

They shouldn't be removed. Right now, progression rewards are the only way to win these vaulted characters! Don't take that away from us!!

Jaedenkaal

Summer Glau said:

If the Vaulted 4's couldn't be featured in PvE that would be one less way to get covers for them
Personally I think ONLY Vaulted 4's should be featured

I for one however do not look forward to whatever next event has my 2/0/3 Ant Man featured, but I will appreciate getting another cover for him

Or 2, if it's a 7-day

mohio

Sorry for not quoting, but to the guy saying they should flip the order of progression and placement rewards I have a quick and concise answer for you - money. It's maybe not a lot - but I'm sure there are players that join an event, see they are missing the essential 4* and decide they are going to buy a 40-pack and try to pull that character from it. Sure the odds are bad and they are likely to be disappointed, but nonetheless it still happens. If you just give away that character in progression the event before, then many of these people have no reason to buy the packs trying to pull more of the character. 

As to the OP - I agree with most above that say they should absolutely still keep them as essentials in PvE. Otherwise we would almost never have a chance at getting them anywhere and you might as well just say we should remove them from the PvP rewards rotation as well. 

Partyof5

I feel like the majority of posters on this forum are in the minority of players.  This forum seems to be mostly populated with the "upper middle class" of MPQ players.  

I have been playing for about 2 years and still don't have a single fully covered 4*.  There are a number I don;t have at all.  The "solution" to dilution just made things much worse for players like me.  If they keep including vaulted 4* in the PvE, players like myself will fall further behind simply because we weren't far enough ahead before they basically locked us out of growing the characters that are now vaulted.

I don't get hundreds of CP each week.  The rotation of vaulting characters out of tokens ensures that the only way for me to realistically get any 4* fully covered is to hoard CP for a year and hope that I get lucky when I finally decide to pull.  But by that time the rules may change again and hoarding CP will screw me again somehow.   

Sorry for the slight derail,  but it's a little frustrating seeing those that are much further along speaking for those that don't play as much but still want a fun experience.   

Skrofa

Partyof5 said:

I feel like the majority of posters on this forum are in the minority of players.  This forum seems to be mostly populated with the "upper middle class" of MPQ players.  

I have been playing for about 2 years and still don't have a single fully covered 4*.  There are a number I don;t have at all.  The "solution" to dilution just made things much worse for players like me.  If they keep including vaulted 4* in the PvE, players like myself will fall further behind simply because we weren't far enough ahead before they basically locked us out of growing the characters that are now vaulted.

I don't get hundreds of CP each week.  The rotation of vaulting characters out of tokens ensures that the only way for me to realistically get any 4* fully covered is to hoard CP for a year and hope that I get lucky when I finally decide to pull.  But by that time the rules may change again and hoarding CP will screw me again somehow.   

Sorry for the slight derail,  but it's a little frustrating seeing those that are much further along speaking for those that don't play as much but still want a fun experience.   

Playing for two years and not having every 4* at least rostered means that you are mostly a casual player.

I am not saying this to undermine you in any way and I'll just try to get to my point.

I am on day 450 ish. Mostly casual for most of this year and a half. But, I do have everyone rostered and I also managed 3 champs quite recently.

Play every pve until the 4* reward. That's all you need to do. Removing 4*s from pve will just mean you'll never get them.

There is however a different underlying issue at hand. They haven't officially removed the vaulted 4*s from pve rewards but as a different poster noted, the recent rewards have been only latest 4*s.

Sure... we got antman for placement in prodigal sun but we all know he'll be skipped as placement for the gotg2 dudes.

Yeih, I guess? Your wish is granted

broll

Skrofa said:

Play every pve until the 4* reward. That's all you need to do. Removing 4*s from pve will just mean you'll never get them.

Let's assume they weren't liberally inserting non-vaulted characters into those rewards and they did a fair rotation, there are still many problems with this.

There are currently 47 non-limited 4* and those grow every ~3 weeks and show no signs of stopping.  If someone were to only get them from progression rewards then you would get them on average a little faster than 1 per week.  It would take 1 year for a new player to get 1 cover for every 4* at that rate, 3 years to get 1/1/1.  And that doesn't even take into account the fact that every new character event bumps someone so you might miss the literally once a year chance to get that character, once every 3 to get that color.  

Things aren't like they used to be, it's now drastically harder to get those characters and the newer you are the worse off your roster will be (regarding vaulted at least) to an exponential degree.

PS - This forum is garbage.

Jaedenkaal

broll said:

There are currently 47 non-limited 4* and those grow every ~3 weeks and show no signs of stopping.  If someone were to only get them from progression rewards then you would get them on average a little faster than 1 per week.  It would take 1 year for a new player to get 1 cover for every 4* at that rate, 3 years to get 1/1/1.  

1/0/0 is sufficient to play and win the essential 4* nodes. After that the largest issue is the HP cost to 'catch up' with the release schedule which is not a problem unique to, nor caused by, vaulting.

What they SHOULD do however is make sure that there is a decent mix of new and vaulted characters boosted in each event/week. Otherwise I agree that the week with 5 vaulted 4*s boosted and a vaulted essential 4* would be pretty insulting for newer players.

vinsensual

Jaedenkaal said:

Summer Glau said:

If the Vaulted 4's couldn't be featured in PvE that would be one less way to get covers for them
Personally I think ONLY Vaulted 4's should be featured

I for one however do not look forward to whatever next event has my 2/0/3 Ant Man featured, but I will appreciate getting another cover for him

Or 2, if it's a 7-day

They should really permanently align 7 day events to give out vaulted characters.  The last three week longs pve's gave out wasp, agent venom and gwenpool and I'm sure that's not by coincidence.

broll

Jaedenkaal said:

broll said:

There are currently 47 non-limited 4* and those grow every ~3 weeks and show no signs of stopping.  If someone were to only get them from progression rewards then you would get them on average a little faster than 1 per week.  It would take 1 year for a new player to get 1 cover for every 4* at that rate, 3 years to get 1/1/1.  

1/0/0 is sufficient to play and win the essential 4* nodes. After that the largest issue is the HP cost to 'catch up' with the release schedule which is not a problem unique to, nor caused by, vaulting.

What they SHOULD do however is make sure that there is a decent mix of new and vaulted characters boosted in each event/week. Otherwise I agree that the week with 5 vaulted 4*s boosted and a vaulted essential 4* would be pretty insulting for newer players.

It's sufficient, but what it does is it brings the 5* problem of 'why am I carrying around all these dead weight useless characters' and expanding it to over 30 4* & a number of 3*s.  It takes one of the worst aspects of disillusion (IMO) and make it's much worse.

Jaedenkaal

Dilution, I assume you mean. Whether that's true or not, it's not what the OP is complaining about.

broll

Skrofa said:

Partyof5 said:

I feel like the majority of posters on this forum are in the minority of players.  This forum seems to be mostly populated with the "upper middle class" of MPQ players.  

I have been playing for about 2 years and still don't have a single fully covered 4*.  There are a number I don;t have at all.  The "solution" to dilution just made things much worse for players like me.  If they keep including vaulted 4* in the PvE, players like myself will fall further behind simply because we weren't far enough ahead before they basically locked us out of growing the characters that are now vaulted.

I don't get hundreds of CP each week.  The rotation of vaulting characters out of tokens ensures that the only way for me to realistically get any 4* fully covered is to hoard CP for a year and hope that I get lucky when I finally decide to pull.  But by that time the rules may change again and hoarding CP will screw me again somehow.   

Sorry for the slight derail,  but it's a little frustrating seeing those that are much further along speaking for those that don't play as much but still want a fun experience.   

Playing for two years and not having every 4* at least rostered means that you are mostly a casual player.

I am not saying this to undermine you in any way and I'll just try to get to my point.

I am on day 450 ish. Mostly casual for most of this year and a half. But, I do have everyone rostered and I also managed 3 champs quite recently.

Play every pve until the 4* reward. That's all you need to do. Removing 4*s from pve will just mean you'll never get them.

There is however a different underlying issue at hand. They haven't officially removed the vaulted 4*s from pve rewards but as a different poster noted, the recent rewards have been only latest 4*s.

Sure... we got antman for placement in prodigal sun but we all know he'll be skipped as placement for the gotg2 dudes.

Yeih, I guess? Your wish is granted

Jaedenkaal, this was what I was replying to.  They were expanding the OPs thoughts past just essentials to the ability for new character to champ. 

PS - "This was what I was replying to @ Jaedenkaal" (no space translates to just @Jaedenkaal, and you can't put anything before a quote, this forum sucks real bad.

Ezrius

If the vaulted characters were ****, then I wouldn't care, but I rely on such PVE essentials to get my 1-2 covers for some of the best 4-Stars in the game.  It would be pretty upsetting if we had to rely 100% on heroes for hire, 3* champion rewards (for those that even have feeders *cough*Spider-Gwen*cough*), and dumb luck with bonus heroes.

SummerGlau

Tony Foot said:

Summer Glau said:

I for one however do not look forward to whatever next event has my 2/0/3 Ant Man featured, but I will appreciate getting another cover for him

Don't see why it matters, 4 star pve essential is often 2v3 characters, you don't pay it any thought after a new character release when you do it with a 1 or 2 cover 4* so really that's all you need, you just blast through it 4 times with others doing the heavy lifting. I have never worried about the 4* node with a single cover 4* when all I had was 3* champions let alone 4*.

Neither does anyone else when you look at some of those 3* rosters at the head of the leaderboards 

don't get me wrong i'm sure my champed Spider Woman and X-23 will do fine (having to have the latter solo a bit sucked, but got through that and then played a trivial node to heal her up) plus i have Ant Man's yellow at 3

Pinko_McFly

If anything they should be the only ones featured.
Leave the new 4*s out as they are readily available in tokens.
It's easy enough to get to the 4* cover without the one essential.