The worrying direction of MPQ and the community as I approach 2 years...

Wumpushunter

I enjoyed playing the game far more before the money grab trio of changes in the last month but I could deal with these changes if they did not signal the direction of how the developers will push mpq. New stores over bug fixes, new micro transactions over new content, and a very low willingness to take any feedback from the forum.  You can find a way to enjoy anything, but living in fear of the next nerf or change for the worse is not my cup of tea.

Two posts, joined on the 13th, amazingly pro Devs,  pro mpq .....hmmmmmmm 

GurlBYE

I prefer the varied opinions over everyone just kinda saying "everything is fine"

Regardless of how people state things I think everyone is too busy clutching their virtual pearls to realize that no one has a responsibility to necessarily talk in a way that you are used to.

This is the internet, jokes and sarcasm at updates are almost immediately all seen as vitriol by forumites instantly.
Sarcasm doesn't read online.

I find that even if people are emotional, I'm fully able to seek their point out, decide how I feel about that opinion and then move on.

Some people find it constructive for people to be super passive about everything.
Some people prefer their constructive criticism be collective and express their emotional distress at something they invest a lot in (such as spending hundreds of hours of their lives in a year on, I mean I think a person can be upset if they spend 300 hours a year on something. Thats a lot of time on something entertainment related. And thats just under an hour a day, some people spend 3 hours a day on this game, eclipsing 900 hours..)

The root of the issue is people being unable to separate whats being said from how it's said.

Interestingly I find those worse then the dramatic posts because, unlike the dramatic posts which still express a piece of criticism pertaining to the game, the posts about someone elses posts, do nothing but drive the discussion in another direction and get us further from solving the problem or discussing the issue at hand. 

Its more or less the same as people who freak out in rants about grammar. 
It sounds weird but, 3 options, look past the emotions you don't like, close the tab or block/ignore the post.
It's not worth distressing yourself over some one elses distress, whether it's merited or not. 

TheChaoGoesMu

Wumpushunter said:

Two posts, joined on the 13th, amazingly pro Devs,  pro mpq .....hmmmmmmm 

this thread is a psyop

astrp3

The concern I was expressing here wasn't primarily about my own annoyance, but my genuine concern that issues raised here will be ignored in part because of the manner in which they're raised. I would love to see a better response to vaulting  and don't want the devs to just dismiss those who are complaining (or just send them the bedbug letter). If the devs do so because of the manner in which people complain, whether they SHOULD do so is irrelevant to me. There are numerous books, articles, etc. on writing effective letters of complaint  that offer common sense advice like not insulting the person to whom you're complaining. Yes, the person SHOULD be able to ignore the insults and address the underlying complaint, but I'm more concerned with what they WILL do than what they should do, human nature being what it is.

Of course, the support people at D3/Demiurge are probably better people than me when it comes to putting aside personal reactions and dealing with complaints, so it may not matter (and if they already made up their mind what they're going to do regardless of what we say, then all complaints are pointless).

As for my annoyance, I actually have started to just not read most of the posts on her dealing with complaints, which sadly seems to be most of them (couldn't find a way to block certain users, or I would). I say it sadly because  overall I enjoy reading the forums - or at least I used to before they became so overwhelmingly negative.  And while these forums are intended as a way for us to give feedback to the devs, they are also a way for us to interact with each other, so if people don't like the tone of the forums and it's affecting their ability to enjoy them, they have just as much right to voice their concerns as anyone else. I also see Feedback & Suggestions as the primary venue for complaints to the devs, and rarely read it.

It seems that Gurlbye is complaining about people who complain about complainers (or posting about people who post about other people's posts), which seems odd. Then again, maybe I just complained about people who complain about people who complain about complainers. But I can't complain.

revskip

kyo28 said:

TheChaoGoesMu said:

Stop spending money on things you don't like, stop playing a game you don't enjoy, 

I'm one of those who complained vehemently on the forum regarding mostly vaulting. Just a couple of thoughts:
1. I actually did stop spending money. Didn't renew VIP and didn't buy for the first time in long during a sale. Don't plan on spending again anytime soon
2. I didn't stop playing but I severely cut back on playing time and moved to other games, mostly PS4. I told so on the forums as well
3. I don't play competitively, I'm more of a collector and want to get all the characters and play with them, that's all I'm after

But most of all, if I only did that and didn't voice my opinions, how can the devs know what my exact reasons are for fading out of this game? Is it because I found other more interesting games, is it fatigue, is it certain game mechanics? I wanted to explain my reasons on the forums so they at least know and have a chance to course-correct themselves. If they don't, well, then that's on them: either they don't care or they don't need customers like me ... and that's the moment I completely stop playing and move over to other games indefinitely.

I understand it might all seem like a bunch of bile being spit on the forums, but honestly, if devs make one bad decision after another and then blatantly try to cash-grab on top of that, that's the kind of backlash you get.

There is plenty constructive criticism that is invaluable on these forums.  Sadly it gets buried in a sea of other over the top hyperbolic rants.  Which in turn dilutes its ability to create positive change.  

The devs are tasked with creating a balanced game that is fun enough to play and yet has the capability to extract massive amounts of money from a handful of users and little dribbles of money from the rest of the people playing.  They are humans with a job.  The amount of posts on this forum that ascribe some kind of otherworldly avarice or malice on their parts is beyond silly.  

There are plenty of users on the forum who I never agree with about specific changes but who are always respectful and thoughtful in their responses and even though I disagree I sometimes come around because of the persuasiveness of their underlying argument.  I wish I could name a few but that would break a forum rule but I am pretty sure they know who they are.  

I agree with everything in the OP.  

Daredevil217

It'll be interesting to see if this gets buried in the suggestions and feedback forum like other similarly constructed threads. 

(I'm guessing no because this one is offering praise rather than criticism)

DrDevilDinosaur

Obvious troll. Flag & report as off topic then just move along.

Starfury

revskip said:

The devs are tasked with creating a balanced game that is fun enough to play and yet has the capability to extract massive amounts of money from a handful of users and little dribbles of money from the rest of the people playing.  They are humans with a job.  The amount of posts on this forum that ascribe some kind of otherworldly avarice or malice on their parts is beyond silly.  

There are those who'd call the entire business model of these kinds of games predatory. 

Even if you do not, it's more than just reasonable to assess changes as to where they fall on the "improve the product so people are more willing to spend" to "make people feel they need to spend" scale.

Forbush

orbitalint said:

I mean, we do have a ton more analytics from the players (trackers, drop rate distribution testing, etc.) than I've seen anywhere else on a game. So, I think many are looking for deeper conversations about this games meta than a typical game.

This is it, right here: these forums are quite simply the smartest and most informed of all the places that talk MPQ.   Now, does that lead to a lot of extra rage because our convoluted, multilayered plans get sent back to the drawing board with each new big change, whereas a more casual playerbase would just shrug?  I think probably so.

liminal_lad

I feel like the posts here are verging on concern trolling and tone policing. There's a really manipulative undercurrent to some of this dialog. I doubt that the way people are expressing their dislike for recent changes is somehow going to drive the developers to not address their changes. It's a business. They will respond based on what they think will provide them with the highest possible revenue stream. it's really that simple. 

liminal_lad

At what does "complaining about people who complain about complainers" just get so meta it's like a dog chasing its own tail?

carrion_pigeons

There's no doubt that on a micro level, feedback could be better.  People who threaten to quit or claim the game is going to die because of design changes are not offering useful feedback, for example, whether or not their opinions hold up in the long run.  But Brigby's literal job is to identify useful feedback and send it along to the devs, so there's not a lot of risk of real ideas getting buried.

But one thing I've observed is that the only sort of feedback that is ever actioned on is feedback about what feels fair.  To my knowledge, no new feature that has been suggested on the forums has ever been implemented.  We get changes like "more Iso" once in a while, but every new feature that has ever been put into play has been a surprise, something that no one ever asked for.  Sometimes, it's been a really good change anyway (like DDQ or bonus heroes) and more often the change is met with varying degrees of disdain, but afaik, it has never been some new feature the forums asked for.

No change has ever been suggested for things like the Prologue, Boss fights, DDQ, scaling, node completion, shields, rewards, various alternate modes of play, or many other things, which has ever actually been put into the game.  Not ever, not even once that I've seen.  The best way to guarantee the change you want to see happen never does is to ask for it.

So it's not really a question of good ideas getting buried in the first place.  It's a question of not understanding what the devs might consider to be a good idea at all: we have no basis for comparison.

Frustrated1

If you come up with a way to give the devs money, they will listen. It's literally that simple, and their track record proves it. 

Partyof5

Wumpushunter said:

New stores over bug fixes, new micro transactions over new content, and a very low willingness to take any feedback from the forum.  

The only micro transactions are the $4.99 HP and ISO options.  Having to pay about $17 (or $20+ for the unlucky ones) in the H4H store for a single 4* cover is insane.  If they gave the casual players actual micro transactions I'd buy something again.