What's the General Feeling on Trap Tiles?

Ezrius
Ezrius Posts: 150 Tile Toppler
Just curious about whether people feel they're fine or weak after playing with Daredevil for a little bit today.  In his case, his Red trap tiles have good potential, but the fact that 3* or 2* Daken can counter them simply by existing and having Green tiles matched is somewhat pathetic, especially where there seems to be no prioritization to overwrite non-trapped tiles first.  

I assume the same would be true of any attack/strike/protect tile generator vs any trap generator.  Are people generally fine with this, because it keeps traps in check, or are they viewed as too weak because they're so unreliable?

I'm just curious now that fortification tiles are a thing, and they can occupy the same tile as a special tile.  Would traps benefit from a buff that allows them to occupy the same space as other special tiles similar to fortification tiles, or would that just make them too powerful?
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Comments

  • Crnch73
    Crnch73 Posts: 504 Critical Contributor
    edited April 2017
    Generally I am not a fan of them. They can do some big damage, especially if boosted (Fury, X-23, Ant-man to a degree). But overall, most times they get placed in such bad locations that they are bound to never get matched. At least Fury makes a lot of them, so there's a decent chance one gets hit. But any character that makes a single trap tile? Most times for me they end up tucked in a corner or surrounded by no similar colors. And like you said, any enemy can overwrite them with a passive? I think that is ridiculous. I was using ant man and his purple trap tile was out. Not only did 2* bullseye overwrite the trap, but so did the goon commander that makes purple "pistol" tiles. Basically, If the trap tile could either be "protected" from being overwritten, or if you could choose the location, they could be great. At the moment? Parlor tricks at best
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,192 Chairperson of the Boards

    Trap tiles are OK in the state they are. If you fortify them, then you it would show there location. If you are allowed to place them then it would be too strong in some cases ( placing it on a 4 combo and letting the AI match it next turn or putting antman's purple in a corner).

    What might help the trap tile is maybe introducing different styles of trap tiles. Maybe one that activates if a strike,protect or attack tile is placed on it, but does nothing if you match it prior. So lets say you have a character that places 6 red trap tiles. If at any point and attack tile or whatever is placed on one of those trap tiles, converts them to friendly and strengthens them by X amount.

  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think fury's is the only worthwhile one since he places so many of them. Some like daredevil is a waste since it rarely gets.matched.
  • Ezrius
    Ezrius Posts: 150 Tile Toppler

    If you fortify them, then you it would show there location.


    So, I'm not saying you should fortify trap tiles, I'm saying maybe their coding should be more akin to fortify tiles in that a fortified tile can occupy the same space as a strike tile.  Since we know there is a way to have two different tile types occupy the same space, I'm theorizing that you could keep traps essentially the same aside from the fact that a passively generated strike tile couldn't overwrite it.  Maybe you would use the same layer and allow fortify tiles to overwrite them, in fact, since they're rarer, but I'm not advocating for fortifying traps or revealing their location.

    I also don't think being allowed to place them would work out well, for the same reasons.
  • JackTenrec
    JackTenrec Posts: 808 Critical Contributor
    This strikes me as a rock/paper/scissors sort of thing. The benefit of the trap is it can't be directly targeted, since the player doesn't know where it is. The downside of the trap is it can easily be overwritten. So don't use, say, Elektra or Daredevil vs. Daken, or Dr. Doom vs. Ant-Man or 2* Bullseye. I think the Eye of Agamotto is the only direct counter to traps, so the ability to overwrite them using powers (Storm's Hailstorm, Falcon's Bird Strike, and Magneto's Coercive Field are probably the best ones) is the only other viable strategy against them.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,289 Chairperson of the Boards
    If you like lots of trap tiles in 4* land, Winter Soldier is better than Nick Fury.  He's just harder to get.  Spider Woman from latest is OK overall, but her traps are very nice.
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    I feel like the caltrop trap tiles can be placed anywhere, but I might be making that up. I would be ok with trap tiles being able to be placed on attack/strike/protect/countdown tiles, but still be overridden if one is placed on them.

    During the Divine Champions pvp, I was using Loki, Cyclops, and Spiderwoman. Since Loki was boosted, Cyclops generated purple, so I littered the board with Spiderwomans trap tiles. It was pretty awesome.

    In general, trap tiles feel like the most unfair between AI and user. I know it's random, but it just feels like whenever I use a trap tile it gets overridden immediately, when the AI uses one it lasts forever. When I want the AI to match it, they don't. If I want to keep it on the board, they match it.
  • Pants1000
    Pants1000 Posts: 484 Mover and Shaker
    I think it's a strange mechanic.  The special thing about trap tiles is that they are invisible, but the AI doesn't care about special tiles so it makes the same moves whether they are invisible or not.  It only matters when the AI has invisible tiles and a human player can't see them.
  • carrion_pigeons
    carrion_pigeons Posts: 942 Critical Contributor
    Kishu make traps that are very good. If a player character could make traps that good, I think people would be impressed with them a lot more. 

    Daredevil particularly is pretty hard-countered by a lot of characters, but if you choose your battles carefully, Ambush is more than fine.  Try playing him with Cyclops to make it easier to match his traps. 
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,477 Chairperson of the Boards
    they really do need to go back to the earlier characters and revamp powers in light of new mechanics.  I'm not necessarily saying buff or nerf,  but at least update so that they play consistent with the current meta.  Daredevil, punisher, psylocke just feel so old, tired and slow now.
  • bigsmooth
    bigsmooth Posts: 375 Mover and Shaker
    Spider-Woman's traps are quite good, arguably the best in the game. They do solid damage, show up on any color (reducing the odds of a passive overwriting them), and they all function independently so they can stay on the board for a very long time. Plus, her purple power is not super expensive so it doesn't hurt too badly if they do get overwritten or destroyed.
  • MushroomGenius808
    MushroomGenius808 Posts: 138 Tile Toppler
    Daredevil and Quicksilver are pretty fun together.  Collect enough black to shift some red tiles around and keep that trap bouncing at 3k dmg per.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,115 Chairperson of the Boards
    Traps are generally bad, unless you have lots of them, like Fury, and they all do something if changed in anyway.
  • The Viceroy Returns
    The Viceroy Returns Posts: 491 Mover and Shaker
    Trap tiles seem to work great for the AI, but not so much for you.  Could be mental bias though.

    Single trap tiles blow unless you can place them yourself.
    It never fails.  If it's the kind you don't want matched (like Elektra's or Any-Man's) it always is placed where it can be matched next turn.  And if it's the kind you do want matched (like Daredevil's), it hides in the corner.

    That they can be over-written so easily is another annoyance too.  It would be interesting if the "if the enemy matches this tile" trigger also happened when they get over-written, or if some traps had a trigger when they got over-written in addition to basic matching.

    They've improved quite a bit since Daredevil's addition to the game way back when, but it feels like they need a bit more.  I think in general a trap tile needs to do something for both player matches and AI matches to make them worthwhile.  Later characters like X-23 and Winter Solider are great examples of this.
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor

    IMO theyre interesting as a very unreliable delivery mechanism for some action...  so long as the effects of a trap are sufficiently devastating then I think its a good balance... 

    Daredevil's sucks...

    Electra herself sucks but I'd say her shadowstep is a good use of the trap mechanism because there are multiple traps and theyre intended to be short lived.

    Doom's purple uses trap tiles well too...

    Fury's demolition does enough damage to have traps be acceptable.


    I think so long as the trap mechanic is understood as a poor delivery system and its taken into account when creating the skills, they can still be useful without having to change the mechanics of overwriting them...

  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    smkspy said:
    I think fury's is the only worthwhile one since he places so many of them. Some like daredevil is a waste since it rarely gets.matched.
    Holy crud, if you play Daredevil hoping only the enemy matches the traps, you are doing it wrong...

    I agree Daredevil could use some buffing, but he's fun and puzzly to play (going for the Trap yourself, repeatedly!). Plus his stun can be amazing btw.

    But everyone is right, not against Daken, Blade, etc. Maybe adding a component to where you gain 3 to 4 red AP if it gets overwritten/destroyed would be fair.

    Fury's are quite good. For Spider woman and X-23, try bringing Mr. Fantastic (or Quicksilver as mentioned), so you can warp tiles in place for the enemy to match them.


  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,544 Chairperson of the Boards
    Just don't let passives overwrite the traps. They can't overwrite other tiles, I don't see why they should overwrite traps. Otherwise, I think they work great and just as they should.
  • JVReal
    JVReal Posts: 1,884 Chairperson of the Boards
    Not the biggest fan of trap tiles for all the above mentioned reasons, and along with the reason that the trap tiles activate even when the person who put the trap there is stunned.  This has been my biggest hatred of trap tiles.  A person is stunned but can still jump up, kick you, then lie back down stunned...
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    JVReal said:
    Not the biggest fan of trap tiles for all the above mentioned reasons, and along with the reason that the trap tiles activate even when the person who put the trap there is stunned.  This has been my biggest hatred of trap tiles.  A person is stunned but can still jump up, kick you, then lie back down stunned...
    And yet I love being able to do that to the enemy... ha
  • Insert25c
    Insert25c Posts: 48 Just Dropped In
    Borstock said:
    Just don't let passives overwrite the traps. They can't overwrite other tiles, I don't see why they should overwrite traps. Otherwise, I think they work great and just as they should.
    CMags yellow will overwrite anything.