4* vaulting has exacerbated the ISO shortage.

smkspy

bbigler said:

I pointed this out in another thread, but I'll summarize it here: if most of your latest 4*s are not champed but beyond 7 covers, then you'll feel an ISO shortage. BUT, once you've champed most of the latest 4*s, then you will feel an ISO surplus, with most of your covers going to champ levels and not adding to your ISO "debt". 

At that point, you can either continue pulling to gain champ levels, or stop and hoard for a couple months until a new batch of 4*s enter the pool. 

This where I'm at. Back down to one of the 12 being champed (wasp) and only one at less than 8 covers (IF at 3). So the iso shortage is painful right now since once I champ gwenpool and possibly SW then cage, medusa, AV, and Carol will all likely be finished.

I just don't see myself catching up anytime soon. Doesn't help that heroic and elite tokens feel pretty barren of 3/4s and 3s recently.

Fightmastermpq

Felessa said:

I would like to be in this position of "ISO shortage", than my actual one, "COVERS shortage". I have more than 2kk ISO and no where to spend... not a single one of the "latests" champed... only C4ge is almost there... still waiting for his final black one, thanks to Cag3. As a casual player, this system isn't better than the old one (and I think I'm not the only one), because it seems I will never be able to get all the covers I need, before a latest falls into the vault, on the contrary of the old one, where I could progress my roster at my pace, without having to worry with expiration dates.

Give it some time, once the vaulting mechanic has been in place for a while covers for newer characters should really start flowing much more quickly.

killerkoala

i think i have said it like 4 times in this post.  don't open ur tokens or CP.  problem solved.  just stockpile iso till u can champion all cover u get.

Fightmastermpq

killerkoala said:

i think i have said it like 4 times in this post.  don't open ur tokens or CP.  problem solved.  just stockpile iso till u can champion all cover u get.

If you can generate the 350k ISO you need within the 2 week expiration period though you can still open until you pull something that you need to champ.....then stop.

killerkoala

Fightmastermpq said:

killerkoala said:

i think i have said it like 4 times in this post.  don't open ur tokens or CP.  problem solved.  just stockpile iso till u can champion all cover u get.

If you can generate the 350k ISO you need within the 2 week expiration period though you can still open until you pull something that you need to champ.....then stop.

why fight a expiration, just don't open  any.  but if u get it as a prize/progression,  then race.

mohio

smkspy said:

bbigler said:

I pointed this out in another thread, but I'll summarize it here: if most of your latest 4*s are not champed but beyond 7 covers, then you'll feel an ISO shortage. BUT, once you've champed most of the latest 4*s, then you will feel an ISO surplus, with most of your covers going to champ levels and not adding to your ISO "debt". 

At that point, you can either continue pulling to gain champ levels, or stop and hoard for a couple months until a new batch of 4*s enter the pool. 

This where I'm at. Back down to one of the 12 being champed (wasp) and only one at less than 8 covers (IF at 3). So the iso shortage is painful right now since once I champ gwenpool and possibly SW then cage, medusa, AV, and Carol will all likely be finished.

I just don't see myself catching up anytime soon. Doesn't help that heroic and elite tokens feel pretty barren of 3/4s and 3s recently.

You catch up by not champing the oldest of the "latest 12" and letting them rotate out. Focus on only the newest 6-8 and then work on the new ones as they come in and you cover them. You may throw out some covers for spider woman, agent venom, etc. but by championing the newest ones first you are getting the most value from your iso that you can. 

Someone else said it earlier so I'm just repeating...pick a cutoff in the current latest 12, and only champion anything newer than that. 

Fightmastermpq

killerkoala said:

Fightmastermpq said:

killerkoala said:

i think i have said it like 4 times in this post.  don't open ur tokens or CP.  problem solved.  just stockpile iso till u can champion all cover u get.

If you can generate the 350k ISO you need within the 2 week expiration period though you can still open until you pull something that you need to champ.....then stop.

why fight a expiration, just don't open  any.  but if u get it as a prize/progression,  then race.

Well for one, when you open things that you can use it will actually speed up the process.  Plus I've actually started to make a game of it.  I've been playing PvE a bit harder, not shielding as much in PvP and instead just farming ISO, etc. - trying to beat the clock on covers.  I'm finding that I can pretty consistently champ a 4* in just over a week, and have actually champed two 4s and a 3* in the same 2 week period before.  In fact, I'm tempted to go through my small Latest stash and see if I can champ a 5* from 255 in 2 weeks should I pull a 14th cover for my Black Panther.

BoyWonder1914

Exacerbated is the perfect word. I was already running on a shortage per se, having more people fully covered and ready to champ than I had the iso for. I had a stash of 1K CP built up, and with the announcement of vaulting I grew concerned that I would no longer have the chance to fully cover/champ people I really liked like Peggy, MK, and Kate. I ended up a cover short on Peggy and Kate, but I fully covered everyone else that was in there at the time except CM4.

Now with the most current vault update:

Coulson - 2/3/2
C4rol - 1/4/5
D4nny - 3/2/3
Mordo - 3/2/3

Gwen Pool - Fully covered
Medusa - Fully Covered
Riri - Fully Covered
Spider Woman - Fully Covered
Agent Venom - Fully Covered
Wasp - Fully Covered

Bl4de - Champed
Luke C4ge - Champed

I don't earn enough ISO to champ 6 4-stars in a single season, and this doesn't even include the other people I have fully covered: 

Elektra, Thor, Kate B, PX, Winter Soldier, XFW, Mr. F. 

There's even more people that are 1 cover away. I don't know how the hell I'll "catch up", but some double Iso events definitely wouldn't hurt. As of now CP pulls are all but a guaranteed waste. 

Qubort

Dragon_Nexus said:

I was giving this some thought today as I raced my Blade up to level 270 before his three reserve covers expire.

The primary purpose of 4* vaulting was to give you a much better chance of pulling one of the newer 4*s, since before they'd be so diluted in the tokens it was hard to get them. I can understand and even somewhat agree with that as someone who still only has 9 covers for Moonknight due to unluckiness (and now will have to stay at 9 covers, but that's another matter).

For me, this has felt somewhat successful. I've championed Medusa in record time. My coulson is already at 11 covers. Gwenpool was stuck at 8 for ages and now she's at 13. I have 10 covers for Carol Danvers.

But herein lies the problem. Yes, it's easier to get the new 4*s now, and getting them to 13 covers doesn't take the 6-12 months it used to, on average. But you have done nothing to address the ISO shortage. In fact, channeling covers to a handful of 4*s only makes this worse. I now have Coulson, Gwenpool, Carol Danvers and Blade to level up and there's no increased ISO to do so. The effect of maybe getting a 4* cover for an older character meant it would take longer before you needed the ISO to champ that really good new one, which gave you time to save it up. Now you earn the new covers so fast you're drained instantly.

The ISO drought has been a problem for months already and vaulting only made it worse.

Now you see the true genius of vaulting. Need ISO?  Pay $300 and still not have enough to champ ONE 4star. 

bbigler

BoyWonder1914 said:

Exacerbated is the perfect word. I was already running on a shortage per se, having more people fully covered and ready to champ than I had the iso for. I had a stash of 1K CP built up, and with the announcement of vaulting I grew concerned that I would no longer have the chance to fully cover/champ people I really liked like Peggy, MK, and Kate. I ended up a cover short on Peggy and Kate, but I fully covered everyone else that was in there at the time except CM4.

Now with the most current vault update:

Coulson - 2/3/2
C4rol - 1/4/5
D4nny - 3/2/3
Mordo - 3/2/3

Gwen Pool - Fully covered
Medusa - Fully Covered
Riri - Fully Covered
Spider Woman - Fully Covered
Agent Venom - Fully Covered
Wasp - Fully Covered

Bl4de - Champed
Luke C4ge - Champed

I don't earn enough ISO to champ 6 4-stars in a single season, and this doesn't even include the other people I have fully covered: 

Elektra, Thor, Kate B, PX, Winter Soldier, XFW, Mr. F. 

There's even more people that are 1 cover away. I don't know how the tinykitty I'll "catch up", but some double Iso events definitely wouldn't hurt. As of now CP pulls are all but a guaranteed waste. 

Then stop pulling tokens until there is no longer a waste.  Is it that hard for you to hold on to something and not spend it?

Straycat

To me, vaulting has changed my roster plans by getting me to accept fully covered non champs. Before I would pull until I got the 14th cover, hoard until they're champed, then repeat. That's why I have Falcap, Carnage, Venom, and Elektra champed. Now, some decent characters like Kingpin or Mr Fantastic will likely stay unchamped. I can still use them, especially when boosted if they're spec'd nicely.

I had 3 on deck to be champed when vaulting launched, since then I actually got my 13th cover for 3 more vaulted characters. Right now I am sitting on 7 fully covered non champ 4*s, Mordo being the only one in tokens. As it is, they will likely stay that way. Mordo being so new I will probably champ him, but Cage and Gwenpool might be stuck at 11 when they leave. I might use bonus heroes to get them covered, but then probably leave them unchamped.

Iso demand only really spikes when a vaulted hero shows up that I do want champed.  Red Hulk being a progression reward will double the iso demand as he becomes a priority.

Since BH started I have champed 4 of the 12. Thats like 2 every 3 weeks. I've been able to keep up pretty well so far. Haven't had to sell a 14th cover yet. They often were helped timing wise by my 2* farm, the farm usually being helped by a shield rank.

SnowcaTT

I agree it's exacerbated the problem, but I have been saying this since day one of vaulting.

The problem is they are going to go with the "This too shall pass...." - and it will.

I'm having to abandon the older 4*'s that are not vaulted, there is no way I can get them all. So long, all Venom/Gwenpool/Wasps I draw. Instead, I'll champ all the newest characters - and many players should be able to keep up with ISO needs of newest characters in about three or four months, if they can't already and if they also ignore the older ones.

Now, the real problem is: "Should the best option be to champ the newest character, no matter what?" It obviously is the best option now, but to totally abandon the older characters to chase the new ones leaves players feeling empty.

Ayasugi-san

bbigler said:

Ayasugi-san said:

bbigler said:

I have a better idea: just set your favorite to a vaulted 4* and continue to build the current 4*s.  Eventually, you'll get there, but current 4*s are going to get more champ levels than vaulted 4*s.  But building 4*s is not the end game anyway.  So, you still need to hoard something for 5*s.

Except I can't build the current 4*s without pulling a lot of wasted covers. They get covered far faster than I can earn ISO to champ them.

Then don't pull Legendary tokens if you don't have the ISO.  It's so simple, I don't know why everyone doesn't understand that.  If you have an ISO shortage, then stop pulling tokens until you catch up.  Once caught up, only pull what you are able to use before they expire. 

Yeah. That's what I'm doing now.

But then there are other people saying that you shouldn't hoard under the new system, that the reason I'm having problems is because I hoarded until I had the HP to roster pulls. Not to mention that sitting on an ever-increasing hoard while knowing that I'll only get ~14 different characters total from them isn't very exciting, and when the game at the tier isn't exciting, players start to lose interest.

BoyWonder1914

bbigler said:

BoyWonder1914 said:

Exacerbated is the perfect word. I was already running on a shortage per se, having more people fully covered and ready to champ than I had the iso for. I had a stash of 1K CP built up, and with the announcement of vaulting I grew concerned that I would no longer have the chance to fully cover/champ people I really liked like Peggy, MK, and Kate. I ended up a cover short on Peggy and Kate, but I fully covered everyone else that was in there at the time except CM4.

Now with the most current vault update:

Coulson - 2/3/2
C4rol - 1/4/5
D4nny - 3/2/3
Mordo - 3/2/3

Gwen Pool - Fully covered
Medusa - Fully Covered
Riri - Fully Covered
Spider Woman - Fully Covered
Agent Venom - Fully Covered
Wasp - Fully Covered

Bl4de - Champed
Luke C4ge - Champed

I don't earn enough ISO to champ 6 4-stars in a single season, and this doesn't even include the other people I have fully covered: 

Elektra, Thor, Kate B, PX, Winter Soldier, XFW, Mr. F. 

There's even more people that are 1 cover away. I don't know how the tinykitty I'll "catch up", but some double Iso events definitely wouldn't hurt. As of now CP pulls are all but a guaranteed waste. 

Then stop pulling tokens until there is no longer a waste.  Is it that hard for you to hold on to something and not spend it?

That's what I'm doing.....better yet that's obviously what I DID to have a stash of 1000 CP in the first place. I clearly said that I was concerned about covering specific people before they left the vault, hence using my CP stash back then was the only way to do that. Did I say was upset about getting all those people fully covered? I'd do it again if someone was leaving the vault that I coveted as much as Peggy. The point is that the ISO shortage was already existent.......vaulting just made it worse because it assures that your pulls go to a much more limited pool that shifts your priorities. 

bbigler

BoyWonder1914 said:

That's what I'm doing.....better yet that's obviously what I DID to have a stash of 1000 CP in the first place. I clearly said that I was concerned about covering specific people before they left the vault, hence using my CP stash back then was the only way to do that. Did I say was upset about getting all those people fully covered? I'd do it again if someone was leaving the vault that I coveted as much as Peggy. The point is that the ISO shortage was already existent.......vaulting just made it worse because it assures that your pulls go to a much more limited pool that shifts your priorities. 

What's wrong with shifting priorities to the latest 4*s?  Once most of them are champed, you no longer have an ISO shortage, but surplus.  You can either swim in champ rewards or start saving for a 5* hoard.  Win-Win.  I don't know why people can't see that. 

bbigler

Ayasugi-san said:

bbigler said:

Ayasugi-san said:

bbigler said:

I have a better idea: just set your favorite to a vaulted 4* and continue to build the current 4*s.  Eventually, you'll get there, but current 4*s are going to get more champ levels than vaulted 4*s.  But building 4*s is not the end game anyway.  So, you still need to hoard something for 5*s.

Except I can't build the current 4*s without pulling a lot of wasted covers. They get covered far faster than I can earn ISO to champ them.

Then don't pull Legendary tokens if you don't have the ISO.  It's so simple, I don't know why everyone doesn't understand that.  If you have an ISO shortage, then stop pulling tokens until you catch up.  Once caught up, only pull what you are able to use before they expire. 

Yeah. That's what I'm doing now.

But then there are other people saying that you shouldn't hoard under the new system, that the reason I'm having problems is because I hoarded until I had the HP to roster pulls. Not to mention that sitting on an ever-increasing hoard while knowing that I'll only get ~14 different characters total from them isn't very exciting, and when the game at the tier isn't exciting, players start to lose interest.

This comes down to a long term playing strategy, not a short one.  Read on, this might help.  For example, I noticed about 6 months ago that my ISO "debt" kept increasing due to 4* cover accumulation, so I started hoarding LT and CP until I caught up.  Well, I thought catching up would only take a few weeks, but it took a few months!  By then I had hoarded about 40 LT and 1200 CP.  I then started to open Classics in small groups (going down to 1000 CP) and then level up those characters before opening another small group.  This prevented cover waste, allowed me to champ 4*s and still save LT for a 5* hoard.  I've continued to do this with the new vaulting policy too. 

So......I continue to champ new 4*s (which is interesting) and continue to save for the future 5* tier.  But the great hope for the future is when I've champed at least half of the latest 4*s and can slow down spending and save faster towards the 5* hoard. 

Dauthi

Here is something to think about. Prizes increase dramatically when you level your championed 4*. People who were farming 4*s were starting to feel this, and our ISO generation was increasing exponentially. Because of this we were gradually covering every 4*, even outpacing the releases.

With this new change, how far do you think any normal player will ever get their 4*s after championing? This isn't a small ISO cut, this is huge for those who were farming.