4* vaulting has exacerbated the ISO shortage.

Dragon_Nexus
Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
in MPQ Suggestions and Feedback
I was giving this some thought today as I raced my Blade up to level 270 before his three reserve covers expire.

The primary purpose of 4* vaulting was to give you a much better chance of pulling one of the newer 4*s, since before they'd be so diluted in the tokens it was hard to get them. I can understand and even somewhat agree with that as someone who still only has 9 covers for Moonknight due to unluckiness (and now will have to stay at 9 covers, but that's another matter).

For me, this has felt somewhat successful. I've championed Medusa in record time. My coulson is already at 11 covers. Gwenpool was stuck at 8 for ages and now she's at 13. I have 10 covers for Carol Danvers.

But herein lies the problem. Yes, it's easier to get the new 4*s now, and getting them to 13 covers doesn't take the 6-12 months it used to, on average. But you have done nothing to address the ISO shortage. In fact, channeling covers to a handful of 4*s only makes this worse. I now have Coulson, Gwenpool, Carol Danvers and Blade to level up and there's no increased ISO to do so. The effect of maybe getting a 4* cover for an older character meant it would take longer before you needed the ISO to champ that really good new one, which gave you time to save it up. Now you earn the new covers so fast you're drained instantly.

The ISO drought has been a problem for months already and vaulting only made it worse.
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Comments

  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    JHawkInc said:
    Except now it's caught up. I've covered the newer 4*s well enough that my risk of pulling wasted 4*s is jumping back up. I really want to keep pulling LTs because I want more Iron Fist (and the same will happen when Cloak & Dagger enters LTs), but I run the risk of pulling one of the two Wasp colors I have at 5 already, or another Riri/Mordo (since they're at 13/13, but unchamped). The ISO just isn't enough to keep up, even pulling in 50k a day, on average.
    Yeah, this part right here is where I'm at. I've never hoarded LTs before, nor have I hoarded CP, much. My system was I'd get to 120CP incase, say, a 5/5/2 character suddenly got a 6th cover, I'd have 2 weeks to get the last cover I needed...otherwise I'd just buy it so it didn't go to waste. I'd spend every 20CP over the 120 mark.

    Now I have an LT I'm not using. I have 163 CP.

    I mean, I'm tempted to use them to hopefully get a Wasp, but she's at 4/5/2 (technicallyt 4/9/2, but whatevs) and I'm not that lucky. And even then, I'd need to gather another 250kISO to champ her. And *again* she's going to drop out of the tokens soon, so there's even less point.

    The game's now designed in the most disposable manner possible. You have a few months to champ a 4* and get them to a workable level and after that you might as well sell it because you're likely to never get covers again.

    Do you reckon the developers watched the 1988 Transformers movie?
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2017
    This was an obvious consequence of the vaulting system and has been a complaint since the initial announcement.  The cynical might think that creating extra iso pressure on players was an intended outcome that benefits demi/d3.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    This was an obvious consequence of the vaulting system and has been a complaint since the initial announcement.  The cynical might think that creating extra iso pressure on players was an intended outcome that benefits demi/d3.
    And while I could understand that if ISO wasn't such awful value.
    Outside of the whales (and you'll always have whales), how many people look at the current pricing and think "Hmm, £380 to max out this 4* character. That sounds reasonable!"

    I want to believe it's an exceptionally small number of non-whales that actually do that.

    If that *is* Demiurge's true intention, then they're so out of touch it would begger belief.
  • Pants1000
    Pants1000 Posts: 484 Mover and Shaker
    For me it's been about an even swap.  Instead of trashing a Mr F, Falcap and Miles, now it's 3 Spiderwomen.  

    It will take a few months, but I can see the not too distant future when I have most of the latest 12 champed and fewer covers are wasted.

  • Zalasta
    Zalasta Posts: 300 Mover and Shaker
    This has been an issue for a long time and vaulting has simply made it worse. Last time I looked, I had a 6M ISO deficit. While this is a free to play game, I don't believe that everyone should simply get all the benefits that paying players get. D3 could monetize this simply by adding an ISO multiplier to VIP, or adding a second tier VIP+ at $15 that would give you increased ISO drops or a ISO multiplier. That would have the effect of encouraging players to pay for VIP (keeping the game solvent), while not adversely impacting non-paying players.
  • beyonderbub
    beyonderbub Posts: 661 Critical Contributor
    In conjunction with ISO earned from regular daily play, I get around the ISO shortage by maintaining a full cycling and active 2* farm. Provides ISO for champ levels and on sell off. I also strategically hoard LT and CP until i have enough ISO to absorb any large champing needs. I've been doing this all along: leveling according to DDQ crash schedules, who will be featured in PVE, PVP, who's in progression awards. It's not that hard or obsessive or time consuming to look at the in game rewards screen and event rules to figure out where to focus your ISO resources next. Patience and restraint goes a long way in keeping this game fun and your roster able to adapt with a dynamic mechanic. Build wide not up. 
  • CT1888
    CT1888 Posts: 1,201 Chairperson of the Boards
    Pants1000 said:
    ...I can see the not too distant future when I have most of the latest 12 champed and fewer covers are wasted.

    This is where I am aiming for. There will be some pain for a while, and the likes of Wasp and Spider Woman are being abandoned to the wolves, but by the time they roll out of the 12, I expect to have everyone up to and including Coulson championed, if not beyond.
    I worried about not being able to champ Wasp or Spider Woman in time without hoarding tokens for a while, realised it was unhealthy and stripping fun from the game, and instead I opened everything as it came in, tossed several covers, but have Coulson and Medusa champed, and currently bringing Carol before I have to sell covers in the queue, and they have been great fun. Even the iso chase has been exciting for these guys - it's not been a chore "I need to champ everyone" rather "I can't wait to see how good they are!!"
  • HaywireII
    HaywireII Posts: 568 Critical Contributor
    edited April 2017
    I don't really see vaulting as good or bad, just different.  I'm doing the same thing now I was doing before they vaulted a large chunk of the 4 star characters; I open tokens until I get a 14th cover for someone and then I stop opening tokens and champ them.  Rinse and repeat.  Instead of some older characters I've now champed Carol, Medusa, Wasp, Agent Venom, Gwenpool and Blade.  The newer characters are actually a lot of fun to play with so I'm pretty happy with how this has turned out.  Looking forward to playing with a champed Coulson or Cloak and Dagger next season.

    On the ISO shortage front, since the addition of shield intercepts and clearance levels I can champ a 4 star in around 10 days which is significantly faster then I could do it at the end of last year.  I would like to champ them all faster but I am champing them faster than they are releasing 4* characters.  It will still take a long time to champ everyone but I think my ISO deficit is decreasing, not increasing.  I feel bad for the players on Steam, the intercepts go a long way towards making things better for me.
  • GuntherBlobel
    GuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    edited April 2017
    It's been a nice reprieve: opening tokens without abandon this last month. But it was obvious from the beginning that it wouldn't last. And it's not much worse than it was before. Prior to Vaulting, I calculated that each new cover cost me 80 CP, which made the 120 CP cover cost look good. I'll be there again soon... no big deal.

    Save your CP or get comfortable with selling covers for characters unworthy of champing.
  • Copps
    Copps Posts: 333 Mover and Shaker
    I've started hoarding it's not too bad up to 33 pulls mordo and iron fist are the only ones in the current 12 I don't have cover maxed. It's time for me to champ carol then make a decision on if I want to champ Gwen or just riri and then I'm caught up on my current issues. Wasp and drew aren't champed but they are getting abandoned. 

    Who knows maybe ill just horde until until November and max out five Thor. 
  • jgomes32
    jgomes32 Posts: 381 Mover and Shaker
    edited April 2017
    ISO is the main issue for sure. I had Medusa and Carol fully covered thanks to the vaulting and with Pve  giving Medusa and PvP Carol i had two weeks to farm 760k.... Had to make a choice, Medusa (4 vs 2 covers). 

    You can hoard all you want, but the game still throws covers at you faster than iso to champ.

    Edit: Out of the current 12 i have 4 champs (counting Medusa already) and 4 fully covered. Coulson and Riri at 12/13, Iron Fist at 10/13 and Wasp 8 covers. So yes, i can get new characters covered much faster now, but what's the point if it takes just as long to champ anyways...
  • Pongie
    Pongie Posts: 1,412 Chairperson of the Boards
    I find myself back to playing more pve now, just for the ISO. I do feel bad taking up a spot in the top 10 even though I don't need the covers. However, that is the only way to get more ISO and tokens 
  • blargrx
    blargrx Posts: 150 Tile Toppler
    in the same boat as everyone else with the initial vaulting and hoping that once i get over that hump of an influx of newly covered 4*, my iso shortage wont be so steep. Of course it helps that I'm already a hoarder, so i was only opening tokens/cp/LT maybe once at the end of the season because I hated wasting covers. right now i need about 2.4 million to finally champion all the 4* i have sitting at 13 covers.
  • STOPTHIS
    STOPTHIS Posts: 781 Critical Contributor
    Before vaulting I had a nice pattern going. Usually champing a character every week/week and a half. I kept up with the pace of new releases. I only had Elektra, Prof X, and DIno at 13 covers. And if it wasn't for a week of the Gauntlet, I would have champed Elektra and moved on to stocking iso for the next champ.

    Now, I have Elektra, Cage, Nova, Riri, CapFalcon, Spider-Woman, X-23, Prof X, and Dino at 13 covers. And I champed Carol, Medusa, Blade, and Gwenpool. I'm struggling to get back to a nice pace. I'm still opening LTs for that sweet, sweet Pavlovian reward, but I have no interest in spending my CmdPts. I have 650+ CmdPts. I think I'm just going to get to a point that I spend CmdPts on covers to fill older characters, because why not? But then all that means is more of a iso debt.

    I'd kill for double iso right now.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    HaywireII said:
     I feel bad for the players on Steam, the intercepts go a long way towards making things better for me.
    Out of curiosity, how much ISO would you say you get on average daily from the intercepts?
  • STOPTHIS
    STOPTHIS Posts: 781 Critical Contributor
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    HaywireII said:
     I feel bad for the players on Steam, the intercepts go a long way towards making things better for me.
    Out of curiosity, how much ISO would you say you get on average daily from the intercepts?
    500 - 4k roughly. That's not including HP, which can drop so often I can empty a vault and be okay within the week, and tokens, which can lead to more ISO, HP, and tokens depending on champing.
  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,027 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited April 2017
    Dragon_Nexus said:
    HaywireII said:
     I feel bad for the players on Steam, the intercepts go a long way towards making things better for me.
    Out of curiosity, how much ISO would you say you get on average daily from the intercepts?
    It definitely fluctuates quite a bit.  Some days I get lucky with a few 2k drops and I can hit 7500-10K.  Other days I get mostly 500 drops and I average around 3-4K.  With a few CP and 100 or so HP thrown in with a couple of tokens.  

    As to the OP I definitely had to adapt a bit in the way I was champing and had more lost covers than at any other point that I had played combined but most of that occurred because I decided to bust open my hoard of CP and legendary tokens to maximize my champ levels on Peggy before she left tokens.  

    I started out with just Peggy champed out of the 12 that were in tokens and waited until Moon Knight and Kate dropped out before opening.  Spiderwoman was already at 12 covers so she got finished first, then Medusa and then I sold off my 2* farm to champ Blade.  Everyone in the packs except for Capt. Marvel (1/2/5) and Coulson (5/5/2) ended up at max covers and I had to sell about 25 covers for 1K each.  Still, doing it all at once that way meant that I could start hoarding again as soon as Peggy left tokens and now will wait until the next season before opening anything by which point I should have enough ISO to champ at least two more (Mordo got done in the interim).  

    Since I rarely end up with more than 3 covers for a new character (1 from top 100, 1 from alliance top 100 and 1 from progression in the subsequent event) I will be going into next season with pretty good odds of getting either champ levels for the 4 that are still in the tokens plus the two I can champ and the 2 who won't be well covered (4Fist and Cloak and Dagger).  

    I definitely have ended up having a handful of other characters who I'd like to champ who I have skipped for now especially my Iceman and Hulkbuster but I'd rather get ahead on the champing.  In a couple of months I should be ahead enough that I can occasionally sprinkle in one of the older guys.  

    The vaulting definitely makes hoarding even more attractive than it was although I was already hoarding to minimize waste.  I'm hoarding everything but standard and elite tokens at this point to keep from wasting the occasional heroic 4* drop. 

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