Greed.

13

Comments

  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
    Mainloop25 said:
    Not sure why people are going after Justyce for being honest. I am sure there are a lot of people who feel exactly the same way, they just don't come out and admit it. 

    If this game is truly moving to p2w, as people say it is, then that's the attitude they are looking for. But unless you are buying mythic cards, I'm not sure what you think you are buying. 

    Pay to win in its truest sense (World of Tanks Gold Ammo) is undeniable terrible for the game.

    I do agree with him that we need more rewarding purchases in-game.  Right now you can spend 100 USD on 3000 crystals, open a bunch of "Premium" packs and get nothing but dupes.  Unacceptable.

    This won't really change though, since they love charging 50.00 CAD per guaranteed mythic.

  • THEMAGICkMAN
    THEMAGICkMAN Posts: 697 Critical Contributor
    If the game is not accessible for the majority then it will die. A game can't survive for long on several hundred people trying one-up each other with hundreds of $$.
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
    THEMAGICkMAN said:
    If the game is not accessible for the majority then it will die. A game can't survive for long on several hundred people trying one-up each other with hundreds of $$.


    I feel like I have to buy cards just to survive in Platinum, not even trying to one-up anyone.  If I didn't have the key cards available to me from prior purchases then I would just end up with a frag deck that gets slaughtered.

    It's ironic how I have to pay them so that I can continue playing their game, when they actually need me for the game to survive.

  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    Aren't those things complementary. How is that ironic. 
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mainloop25 said:
    Not sure why people are going after Justyce for being honest. I am sure there are a lot of people who feel exactly the same way, they just don't come out and admit it.

    Well, I, for one, am not 'going after' Justyce, I am disagreeing with his point of view, and it does look to me like most people here are doing the same. A forum is a place where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged, so we're exchanging them.

    Mainloop25 said:
    If this game is truly moving to p2w, as people say it is, then that's the attitude they are looking for. But unless you are buying mythic cards, I'm not sure what you think you are buying. 

    The type of monetized game I want to play lets you pay for variety, or convenience, not power. If I'm in the minority here, then perhaps I will have to let this game go and find a different one. That would make me sad.

    Currently I am not convinced that that is the case.

    I imagine someone is going to tell me I'm being unrealistic here expecting ANY game to work like that, so by way of pre-emptive rebuttal I'm just going to say 'League of Legends'.
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
    Ohboy said:
    Aren't those things complementary. How is that ironic. 

    @Ohboy I meant I have to pay first to enjoy the game, rather than enjoy the game and pay later.  If I didn't pay up front they would have lost me as a player, as I wouldn't have purchased packs to get a head start on filling my library.


    @shteev the real issue is that there isn't much to purchase in this game other than what you consider "paying for power".  In addition, real paper MTG lets you buy the cards and then you build your own deck.  I suppose your "P2W" argument holds some weight here because F2P players cannot directly access cards, but they are still accessible to some degree.  I see plenty of players that have really nice cards that I don't have access to, and they are just as powerful as some of the cards I've been able to purchase directly.

  • DuskPaladin
    DuskPaladin Posts: 123 Tile Toppler
    Justyce said:
    @DuskPaladin I'm not sure what you are implying but your answer is exactly what I was saying. Say if 3 brackets in plat got rewards now there are 9 so there are 3 times more people getting top 50 rewards. So logically to share the original prize pool between the extra winners everyone has to get less at the top end. 

    @Justyce I’ll say it again for you and for those who were unaware of that fact.


    At the advent of the events, at about the time as the coalitions’ creation, there were multiple Platinum brackets.

    Let’s say 1,000 players per bracket, for 3 brackets (I don’t have the exact numbers, so it’s just to better illustrate the situation)

    The top 5 was getting 5 Mythics, then rares, etc. (same as before the latest patch)


    But then, the Devs merged all the Platinum brackets (they might have done the same for every tier, but I can only confirm firsthand about the Platinum brackets)

    So from 3 brackets of 1,000 players each, it became 1 bracket of 3,000 players. The rewards were effectively but by 3.


    That’s what other players and myself had been advocating for: the return to the original multiple brackets (while keeping the same reward structure), especially considering the fact that there was more and more Platinum players, yet the number of rewards was not increased accordingly.


    Right now, they have split the bracket back to multiple ones, let’s say 3 brackets of 1 000 players again (new platinum players, but many left because of the state of the game)


    They have cut the reward again, from Mythic to Rare. Yet, you are saying that they “had” to, which makes no sense as proven here. There was a lack of reward, the “logical” thing would have been to increase the amount given. Is it clearer now? The original prize pool is not what you think it was.


    @Mainloop25 I'm not against Justyce nor anyone in particular, I'm just against fallacies and misinformation.




  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    Steeme said:

    @shteev the real issue is that there isn't much to purchase in this game other than what you consider "paying for power".  In addition, real paper MTG lets you buy the cards and then you build your own deck.  I suppose your "P2W" argument holds some weight here because F2P players cannot directly access cards, but they are still accessible to some degree.  I see plenty of players that have really nice cards that I don't have access to, and they are just as powerful as some of the cards I've been able to purchase directly.

    Paying for power is always subjective; I've put my perspective across and I'm happy to leave it at that. I think it's fair to describe paying for Baral, the most broken card printed in the game to date, as paying for power, but I do take the point that he will not be exclusive forever, and soon every player in the game will gain a negligible chance of getting him out of boosters.

    What I *really* don't want to see, and what I don't want to play, is an incredibly unbalanced game. Rishkar's Expertise is still on the horizon. In the meantime, I hope everyone enjoys the Tezzeret2 decks which are about to be unleashed onto the world. Perhaps the 'Not levelling to 60' exploit will spread them out so thinly that they won't become the next boogeyman. Personally i doubt it.

  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    By your reasoning paladin, QB cutting to 100 runes is an improvement because it used to be 50 and got changed to 300. But now it's gonna be 100 which is twice as much as the original. We should rejoice? 
  • losdamianos
    losdamianos Posts: 429 Mover and Shaker
    edited April 2017
    Ohboy said:
    By your reasoning paladin, QB cutting to 100 runes is an improvement because it used to be 50 and got changed to 300. But now it's gonna be 100 which is twice as much as the original. We should rejoice? 
    Can you also point me to a place where could I buy booster pack for runes in new update ?

    Or are We just playing the game lets pick the worst bits from previous update and mesh them into one big steamy pile of "new content"
  • DuskPaladin
    DuskPaladin Posts: 123 Tile Toppler
    edited April 2017
    Ohboy said:
    By your reasoning paladin, QB cutting to 100 runes is an improvement because it used to be 50 and got changed to 300. But now it's gonna be 100 which is twice as much as the original. We should rejoice? 

    Nice cherrypicking @Ohboy, superficially you seem to have a point like you tend to do, but let's look at it more in depth. 

    I wouldn't mind 100 or 50 runes for QB IF things were as they used to be, that is being able to buy booster packs for 300 runes, and when you only had 50 levels, mono-color planeswalkers. (from 51 to 60 it cost as much as lvl 1 to 50, right?) They increased the rune and ribbon gains to encourage players to level their planeswalkers rather than play with low level ones and still get the same amount of rune at a fraction of the time. (funny how a similar exploit is present now, yet the Devs are done nothing so far)

    But that's beside the point, my response was to show that there's a precedent about multiple brackets with the same number of rewards. It's you and Justyce who pretended that there was a balance in the rewards to be maintained.

    The state of the game had not changed at all, compared to the 50 runes QB wins, yet the rewards got worse and worse.



  • Justyce
    Justyce Posts: 54 Match Maker
    i don't take any of these comments personally any but what I want to find is something that's worth paying for. As this is the only way to allow the game to exist. Sure we can talk all we want about free rewards and how they can improve the game but free to play people are grinders in the end it's expected for them to trade progress with time. I guess grinders can be thankful there is still a lot to do in this game and you are not limited to your allotted play time. But grinders don't really help with money. Their only choice is to make more things to buy. And not just more, but things worth buying.  Right now not even the mythic packs are worth buying. Walkers still need to be levelled and there are so many good walkers that you generally only need to buy them for a specific event. Why buy crystals unless you are new to the game? Because I have a decent collection the only way they can entice me to spend is either give me a way to buy the OP mythics I want which can be bad for the game or give me consumables that help me in matches. Bring in health potions or mana potions, let me pay a bit for the luxury of Turning a node to any colour. I have always said this game can't decide if it's a collectible or a competitive game. It does both half heartedly and in return gives mixed expectations from its user base. 
  • Infested
    Infested Posts: 98 Match Maker
    I doubt that you will find an apatite for moving away from grinders with this game. If you think that there will be a top tier that only cash gets you into then you are likely dreaming.

    I don't disagree that this is where the majority of a games cash would come from, but it is clear by now that you won't get anything other than time and anot increased collection from spending your cash here. No other large advantage.
  • Ohboy
    Ohboy Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    DuskPaladin said:
    Ohboy said:
    By your reasoning paladin, QB cutting to 100 runes is an improvement because it used to be 50 and got changed to 300. But now it's gonna be 100 which is twice as much as the original. We should rejoice? 

    Nice cherrypicking @Ohboy, superficially you seem to have a point like you tend to do, but let's look at it more in depth. 

    I wouldn't mind 100 or 50 runes for QB IF things were as they used to be, that is being able to buy booster packs for 300 runes, and when you only had 50 levels, mono-color planeswalkers. (from 51 to 60 it cost as much as lvl 1 to 50, right?) They increased the rune and ribbon gains to encourage players to level their planeswalkers rather than play with low level ones and still get the same amount of rune at a fraction of the time. (funny how a similar exploit is present now, yet the Devs are done nothing so far)

    But that's beside the point, my response was to show that there's a precedent about multiple brackets with the same number of rewards. It's you and Justyce who pretended that there was a balance in the rewards to be maintained.

    The state of the game had not changed at all, compared to the 50 runes QB wins, yet the rewards got worse and worse.




    Are you serious. I point out an example in the exact same logical progression as your complaint and I'm cherry picking? How do you even cherry pick this?

    Your logical progression went A->B->C, C=A, therefore you conclude the situation didn't improve
    Copying it, I pointed out that another thing that went A->B->C, C>A must mean by your definition that the situation improved.

    Well if you want to break down runes, I'll be forced to defend the new rune system which I hate, but your example is very unfair...so I'll do it.

    First of all, let's address your gripe that levels 51 to 60 costs twice as much as levels 1 to 50. Hey, conveniently the rune rewards are also now twice as much. Coincidence? 

    As for runes buying booster packs. I'm sure if you get everyone to agree on returning a third of their total runes earned(including the ones you spent on your planewalkers), they will be open to the idea of bringing that back(we want a fair comparison right?). As I've said repeatedly before, they can't bring it back because they've flooded the rune economy with runes FOR OUR BENEFIT. This is biting the hand that feeds you. You have excess runes to talk about buying packs in any meaningful amount only because they made life easier for you. 


  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor

    Let's all just agree that they are attempting to balance all currencies at once for the current state of the game as well as whatever they have planned for the future (which we cannot see and thus cannot evaluate).  They also have access to all historical data, including how long it takes people to build certain currencies, etc. which we do not have access to and thus do not have their "clairvoyance".

    Finally they are continuously making changes behind the scenes and we are not privy to any information other than what they choose to broadcast publicly.  So while we can all have an opinion on how good or bad the changes are, or what they will do to established and new players alike, in reality this becomes a blind faith thing:

    If D3 and Hibernum want this game to succeed, then we have to trust that they will attempt to do everything to make the game succeed.  It is to everyone's advantage.  The players get a better game, the corporation gets a better return on investment.

    Opinions are great for providing feedback but it is actually quite rare that a single person will predict the future.  Having said that let's just give this bloody game some time to develop.

    Now I do have to say something to @Justyce:  While we definitely see eye-to-eye that there needs to be more product available for purchase, I really don't want to see any consumables.  They are terrible.  I agree they can make money but they just completely ruin the experience.

  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    related but unrelated i guess, i was wondering what was going to happen to the mythics that were supposed to be event prizes. well we know now dont we? we can buy them for $40 us since they had them and had no other way to release them. i am sure that is a happy coincidence though.
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
    morgue427 said:
    related but unrelated i guess, i was wondering what was going to happen to the mythics that were supposed to be event prizes. well we know now dont we? we can buy them for $40 us since they had them and had no other way to release them. i am sure that is a happy coincidence though.

    The pre-purchase mythics are determined before the set is release and are only available for cash until the full set is released.  Event reward mythics are a separate bunch.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    Steeme said:
    If D3 and Hibernum want this game to succeed, then we have to trust that they will attempt to do everything to make the game succeed. 
    If by succeed you mean, 'Make as much money as possible at the expense of the gameplay', then yes, I do trust they will do that.
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
    shteev said:
    Steeme said:
    If D3 and Hibernum want this game to succeed, then we have to trust that they will attempt to do everything to make the game succeed. 
    If by succeed you mean, 'Make as much money as possible at the expense of the gameplay', then yes, I do trust they will do that.


    Well they can't sacrifice gameplay too much, because they'll lose players and the game won't succeed.  It's more of a balancing act.  Actually maybe it's more like a tight-rope walk.

    Also there's more money to be made if the game lasts over 2 years.  Once they have the infrastructure in place they can focus on pumping out content which is pure $$$.

  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    wasnt heart of kiran listed as an event reward? pretty sure it was now it is for sale, does this mean the green gem changer will be for sale also?

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