Can we trust Demiurge and some other questions.

Daredevil217

Ultimately no.

My issues are not so much with OML as I'm just entering the 4* transition. But my issue is the mixed messages about their decision-making of late. Mixed messages = lack of trust to me.

When asked why they added "Vintage Heroics" as a solution to vaulting instead of adding the old 4s to Classic Legends, Brigby stated that it was because that solution would create too much dilution (yet the solution we got had more dilution?).  Seems like a cash grab making us pay to get older 4s.

We were told vaulting was done because of complaints made by their player-base.  Yet we get mostly silence around the many many complaints angering the player base currently.

With OML we were told he was "too powerful" but the fact is he's not even top 5 in terms of power.  He just has a niche use (like Strange and Thanos) that helps him see use a lot (climbing/tanking). His niche use effects their bottom line (health pack sales).  It's hard to believe this decision was about game balance.  Especially since he once was THE most powerful character in game (when there were only 2 fives), but they waited until people spent LOTS to cover him to "balance" the game.

I'm a free to play guy, so I don't effect their bottom line.  I did leave a negative review (mostly around vaulting) to let the developers and future players know my concerns.  I actually got an e-mail response to my review from the developers but it didn't nothing to quell my concerns.

Figure15

Trust that they will always make changes both positive and negative. 

It happens and we need to take a step back and not get overly invested in things whether in terms of money or emotions. 

Dauthi

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong because I am just going off the top of my head here, but hasn't Demiurge had some serious changes in leadership? I could have sworn the lead designer of MtGPQ took over not that long ago. This is part of the reason I remember coming back, some great changes were being made for the long term health of the game.

I think the previous game designer didn't see the flaws in OML while the new one is seeing what was always there. I am one of the few players who are getting affected the most by this nerf (1 cover until I can champ), but I wish this happened earlier. All I have is a 400 Phoenix to compare him to, and I would use buffed 4*s over her most of the time when her powers conflicted with a decent buffed 4*s. This would never happen with my 400 OML, he was always the best choice.

A long time ago I wrote I am sick of Xforce Puzzle Quest, then he got nerfed. Granted it was overboard, but I finally got to play other characters. I feel the same with this, I am really happy in some cases OML isn't always going to be on my team. 

morph3us

Dauthi, I think that's more reflective of OML's design. He fits their initial description of 5* design, useful at any cover level. Phoenix isn't the same, she needs at least 4 purple covers to shine, plus a couple of greens and reds.

If anything, that just reinforces that if they wanted to pull OML into line with the other 5s, they could have just depowered him at lower cover levels. As things are, he's essentially unplayable in PvP. PvP is about relative weakness, and OML is now far too weak relative to Thanos, Bolt, Panther, 5Hawk, and 5Widow.

fmftint

I trust that every sale is a precursor to a negatively received game change. Buyer beware 

Ducky

Dauthi said:

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong because I am just going off the top of my head here, but hasn't Demiurge had some serious changes in leadership? I could have sworn the lead designer of MtGMPQ took over not that long ago. This is part of the reason I remember coming back, some great changes were being made for the long term health of the game.

I think the previous game designer didn't see the flaws in OML while the new one is seeing what was always there. I am one of the few players who are getting affected the most by this nerf (1 cover until I can champ), but I wish this happened earlier. All I have is a 400 Phoenix to compare him to, and I would use buffed 4*s over her most of the time when her powers conflicted with a decent buffed 4*s. This would never happen with my 400 OML, he was always the best choice.

A long time ago I wrote I am sick of Xforce Puzzle Quest, then he got nerfed. Granted it was overboard, but I finally got to play other characters. I feel the same with this, I am really happy in some cases OML isn't always going to be on my team. 

MPQ and MtGPQ are developed by 2 completely different companies. Demiurge develops MPQ, Hibernum develops MtGPQ.

Dauthi

morph3us said:

Dauthi, I think that's more reflective of OML's design. He fits their initial description of 5* design, useful at any cover level. Phoenix isn't the same, she needs at least 4 purple covers to shine, plus a couple of greens and reds.

If anything, that just reinforces that if they wanted to pull OML into line with the other 5s, they could have just depowered him at lower cover levels. As things are, he's essentially unplayable in PvP. PvP is about relative weakness, and OML is now far too weak relative to Thanos, Bolt, Panther, 5Hawk, and 5Widow.

The problem was that OML was more than useful, he dominated at lower tiers of play.

My phoenix is 4/4/2, and I still use OML before her. I still feel his black is strong in comparison to 4* buffed characters. The only difference I really feel is he actually dies sometimes. Again though, my OML is 400 and 12 covers.

About the MtGPQ/MPQ management here is what I was refering to:

http://forums.d3go.com/discussion/55284/we-are-listening/p1

Cthulhu said:

I definitely hope to post a lot more in the future after being through most of the big stuff this year. Sometimes it's just not possible since we are a very small team and I'm managing both MTGPQ and MPQ, but I've definitely found my stride and hope to be a bit more available as some things take a lot less time then they used to!

Ducky

@Dauthi Cthulu is a producer with D3Go and not a developer. He essentially took over IceIX's post.

Dauthi

DuckyV said:

@Dauthi Cthulu is a producer with D3Go and not a developer. He essentially took over IceIX's post.

Thanks for the clarification. Is it safe to say he makes or OKs big decisions like the OML nerf? When new management takes over there is typically changes to policy. If IceIX was OK with OML, but Cthulhu wasn't, could this be the problem with the policy stated at the launch of 5*s vs today?

Ducky

Dauthi said:

DuckyV said:

@Dauthi Cthulu is a producer with D3Go and not a developer. He essentially took over IceIX's post.

Thanks for the clarification. Is it safe to say he makes or OKs big decisions like the OML nerf? When new management takes over there is typically changes to policy. If IceIX was OK with OML, but Cthulhu wasn't, could this be the problem with the policy stated at the launch of 5*s vs today?

As far as I know, Demiurge controls all decisions regarding game design and balance. @Brigby or @Cthulhu could give much better insight to this, though.

Xenoberyll

PHX is softer but stronger than OML. She's a lot faster than he is which is important for PVP too. But even if we'd agree on OML > PHX there's a handful of other 5s that are better now. That's probably why the whales aren't boycotting. They probably don't love the change but they have long moved on to different teams and don't really need him anymore.

Imho D3 needs to do something for the veterans. Players who love the game and return to it every day. But every change they made lately is catering to whales and new players but hurting the vets.

GuntherBlobel

Dauthi said:

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong because I am just going off the top of my head here, but hasn't Demiurge had some serious changes in leadership? I could have sworn the lead designer of MtGPQ took over not that long ago. This is part of the reason I remember coming back, some great changes were being made for the long term health of the game.

Actually, you are correct, mostly. The new lead design is from Wizards of the Coast, which is why you thought MtGPQ, but it's actually MtG. You probably saw him in the newer community videos or on the PW3 podcast. I'd like to think that all the fun synergy between characters is because they have new leadership, but who knows. Maybe the decision to nerf OML was due to new leadership; I don't know.

As much as I agreed with most of the decisions made by Demiurge, even I have to agree that you can't "trust" the developer. Leadership changes. Business decisions change. Things change.

So, I don't "invest" any more into the game than what I feel comfortable in the short run. I'm talking about money here. Since the early days of this game there have been players who have spent more than they felt comfortable spending, because they thought it would pay off in the long run. Don't do that. Things can change for a lot of reasons.

corytutor

If you want to keep people spending,  add more content. If your product isn't balanced then do a little more research before releasing said content. 

It feels like a punch in the gut to spenders and vets and is certainly reason enough to quit spending money chasing something that tomorrow may be garbage. 

Suddenreal

whitecat31 said:

You created a 5 star character that was working as intended. 

Does it take in affect your MMR (match making rating) which forces players to use their best character to survive and progress, which would of course make a player invest in their best tool?  

Does it pay attention to the fact that Old Man Logan is far from the best 5 star character in the top tier, and that by weakening him, you create an unbalance in the top tier PVP system that nobody on your dev team understands or plays?

Yes, they created A 5 star character that was working as intended. What about the others?

Also, these two other statements contradict each other. First you say OML is their best tool, and then say he's far from the best 5 star character (yet he's part of the top tier PVP?).

The problem with OML is that he works with everyone. Phoenix can be used as a red battery, so plays well with other red users, BSSM works well against strike tiles, IM and Cap work best with their own teammates. OML works well with everyone. All you need is a red cover and he plops down two strike tiles whenever someone uses an ability. When he's on my team, I don't even use his black, the rest of my team just cares about his strike tiles. The only character that plays this well with others is Black Bolt because of his yellow, and even that is limited (the only time I use him is when I want to use another non-covered 5* that doesn't use yellow). But OML? Just need someone who can use his abilities quickly and I have a constant bonus. The strength of OML isn't his heal, it's his two-for-one bonus.

So, if one character is used more than the others in the same rarity, it's not working as intended. It means something is askew.

El Satanno

Suddenreal said:

Yes, they created A 5 star character that was working as intended. What about the others?

What about them? This question has no meaning.

Also, these two other statements contradict each other. First you say OML is their best tool, and then say he's far from the best 5 star character (yet he's part of the top tier PVP?).

Not at all, and that's a false equivalency. Just have a look around the character guides, polls, and discussions here. You'll find quickly that he lived somewhere in the middle of the pack. He's only part of top-tier Versus for two reasons: 1) He's somewhat ubiquitous among players who have been earning covers since the introduction of the disaster that is the 5* tier, and 2) He's a 5* character and hence stronger than everyone below by default.

Skipping ahead to this:

All you need is a red cover and he plops down two strike tiles whenever someone uses an ability. When he's on my team, I don't even use his black, the rest of my team just cares about his strike tiles. The only character that plays this well with others is Black Bolt because of his yellow, and even that is limited (the only time I use him is when I want to use another non-covered 5* that doesn't use yellow). But OML? Just need someone who can use his abilities quickly and I have a constant bonus. The strength of OML isn't his heal, it's his two-for-one bonus.

Seems to me you really have no idea what you're talking about. Either that, or you've got Logan undercovered/underleveled and never used him at full strength. (I'm not even going to touch that pants-on-head nonsense about Bolt yellow.) Logan primarily functioned as a sponge for damage and a heap of problems in black strike tiles, in that order. Don't take my word for it, though. Post a poll. You'll see.

So, if one character is used more than the others in the same rarity, it's not working as intended. It means something is askew.

Possibly, but not in the way you think. You've got two main factors governing your ability to compete in either Versus or Story: speed and endurance. Logan was peerless in the latter, but towards the back of the pack in the former. What they've done is crippled him in both respects. But that's only a corollary to the real problem with this game: Everything is a grind. Hence why Logan was so popular.