Should Falcon be a 2*?

Unknown

ANOTHER 3* character. There was no reason Falcon couldn't have been a 2*.

This game is alarmingly careening towards the point where the rare-to-any character ratio is 1:1. AND LazyDaken is still in the distance somewhere....

This is not a good plan. I'm gonna step away fom the game for a bit. See how I think/feel after some down-time.

...I'll check back in sometime in May.

Unknown

IHatePVP wrote:

ANOTHER 3* character. There was no reason Falcon couldn't have been a 2*.

This game is alarmingly careening towards the point where the rare-to-any character ratio is 1:1. AND LazyDaken is still in the distance somewhere....

This is not a good plan. I'm gonna step away fom the game for a bit. See how I think/feel after some down-time.

...I'll check back in sometime in May.

There are plenty of reasons he couldn't have been a 2*. Namely that 2* are weak as hell and any 2* released is obsolete before it even drops.

2* need to serve a very specific purpose if they are going to be introduced into the game again.

Unknown

One reason I wouldn't object to them releasing some 2*s is that right now, if a token is a 2*, it's automatically useless to me, regardless of which one it is. As a result, I only pull a useful cover from a token like every two weeks or so. It'd be nice if I at least had a chance.

Third colors for Daken and I guess Bullseye would be welcome as well, as well as the rest of the two-color people.

Unknown

jozier wrote:

IHatePVP wrote:

ANOTHER 3* character. There was no reason Falcon couldn't have been a 2*.

This game is alarmingly careening towards the point where the rare-to-any character ratio is 1:1. AND LazyDaken is still in the distance somewhere....

This is not a good plan. I'm gonna step away fom the game for a bit. See how I think/feel after some down-time.

...I'll check back in sometime in May.

There are plenty of reasons he couldn't have been a 2*. Namely that 2* are weak as hell and any 2* released is obsolete before it even drops.

2* need to serve a very specific purpose if they are going to be introduced into the game again.

Except most players in the game don't have maxed out teams like we do. If it was a good character, it would be a great stepping stone for newer players.

Unknown

jozier wrote:

IHatePVP wrote:

ANOTHER 3* character. There was no reason Falcon couldn't have been a 2*.

This game is alarmingly careening towards the point where the rare-to-any character ratio is 1:1. AND LazyDaken is still in the distance somewhere....

This is not a good plan. I'm gonna step away fom the game for a bit. See how I think/feel after some down-time.

...I'll check back in sometime in May.

There are plenty of reasons he couldn't have been a 2*. Namely that 2* are weak as hell and any 2* released is obsolete before it even drops.

2* need to serve a very specific purpose if they are going to be introduced into the game again.

Yeah dude Ares was a huge disappointment and everybody hates him and he never gets used

wait

Meto5000

gamar wrote:

jozier wrote:

IHatePVP wrote:

ANOTHER 3* character. There was no reason Falcon couldn't have been a 2*.

This game is alarmingly careening towards the point where the rare-to-any character ratio is 1:1. AND LazyDaken is still in the distance somewhere....

This is not a good plan. I'm gonna step away fom the game for a bit. See how I think/feel after some down-time.

...I'll check back in sometime in May.

There are plenty of reasons he couldn't have been a 2*. Namely that 2* are weak as hell and any 2* released is obsolete before it even drops.

2* need to serve a very specific purpose if they are going to be introduced into the game again.

Yeah dude Ares was a huge disappointment and everybody hates him and he never gets used

wait

It would also be nice if they released a solid 2* character that was good on offense and defense that didn't use red, green and yellow though (Not named Black Widow).

Unknown

seems to me like they could release a gold *** and a ** version of new characters simultaneously to give the 2** people a chance at the new character, but with diminished powers and the 3*** people the more powerful version. Rather than wait a couple of months to release a "new" character as the gold version of an existing 2**. Or just release 2 new characters on PVE events, one ** and another ***...but that might be too much work for them.

NorthernPolarity

Meto5000 wrote:

gamar wrote:

jozier wrote:

IHatePVP wrote:

ANOTHER 3* character. There was no reason Falcon couldn't have been a 2*.

This game is alarmingly careening towards the point where the rare-to-any character ratio is 1:1. AND LazyDaken is still in the distance somewhere....

This is not a good plan. I'm gonna step away fom the game for a bit. See how I think/feel after some down-time.

...I'll check back in sometime in May.

There are plenty of reasons he couldn't have been a 2*. Namely that 2* are weak as hell and any 2* released is obsolete before it even drops.

2* need to serve a very specific purpose if they are going to be introduced into the game again.

Yeah dude Ares was a huge disappointment and everybody hates him and he never gets used

wait

It would also be nice if they released a solid 2* character that was good on offense and defense that didn't use red, green and yellow though (Not named Black Widow).

With the decreases in 2* cover acquisition rates, more 2*s would dilute the character pool and make it even harder to make that transition. I think the 2* pool is fine where it currently is: buffs just need to be given to the current unused characters. Moonstone with a usable black and buffs to purple, for instance, would push her into high tier instantly without further diluting the character pool.

Unknown

Xiphoen wrote:

seems to me like they could release a gold *** and a ** version of new characters simultaneously to give the 2** people a chance at the new character, but with diminished powers and the 3*** people the more powerful version. Rather than wait a couple of months to release a "new" character as the gold version of an existing 2**. Or just release 2 new characters on PVE events, one ** and another ***...but that might be too much work for them.

Oh god no; they're pushing characters out too fast as it is. I think two weeks between characters should be the minimum frequency, at least as an average.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

With the decreases in 2* cover acquisition rates, more 2*s would dilute the character pool and make it even harder to make that transition. I think the 2* pool is fine where it currently is: buffs just need to be given to the current unused characters. Moonstone with a usable black and buffs to purple, for instance, would push her into high tier instantly without further diluting the character pool.

direct covers are taken back but gold tokens seem to get pushed more -- and some signs suggest maybe 10-packs will make it to prizes.

Unknown

gamar wrote:

jozier wrote:

IHatePVP wrote:

ANOTHER 3* character. There was no reason Falcon couldn't have been a 2*.

This game is alarmingly careening towards the point where the rare-to-any character ratio is 1:1. AND LazyDaken is still in the distance somewhere....

This is not a good plan. I'm gonna step away fom the game for a bit. See how I think/feel after some down-time.

...I'll check back in sometime in May.

There are plenty of reasons he couldn't have been a 2*. Namely that 2* are weak as hell and any 2* released is obsolete before it even drops.

2* need to serve a very specific purpose if they are going to be introduced into the game again.

Yeah dude Ares was a huge disappointment and everybody hates him and he never gets used

wait

You're getting very annoying on these forums but I'll break it down for you, slowly:

1) Ares was released 3 MONTHS ago. The game has changed significantly since then, to the tune of at least a half-dozen new 3*. When he was released, there was far more use for him. Now any new 2* just increases the difficulty in making the 2*-3* transition by diluting the pool as NP pointed out, and as immediately obsolete for anyone with 3* which was NOT the case when he was released, as there weren't as many useful 3* back then.

2) Ares is only used by people in the 2* to 3* transition or when he's buffed. To that end, you might as well just buff the current 2* and achieve the same purpose without releasing a new 2* and again diluting the pool for transitional teams

3) Did I mention the fact that Ares was released 3 MONTHS ago and that the game has changed significantly since then? No? Okay, I'll mention it again. It's changed. A lot. There are a LOT of more powerful characters out there. Good luck running Ares in high end PVP. You will be instantly attacked because he is not a deterrent to anyone but the 2* range.

4) It adds nothing for D3 because 2* characters are easier and cheaper to spec out and again, become obsolete much faster. There's no incentive to buy covers or tokens or ISO to cap a 2* when the goal is to move from 2* to 3*. That's ignoring the various gameplay issues above, there's little business sense to do it.

5) Adding 1*/2* characters again just makes it tougher for new players to focus. How many times have you used a 1* except for maybe M Storm outside of a 1* tourney or a Heroic since leaving the prologue? Never? Exactly. But add in another 1* for them to accumulate and it forces them to spread even more limited ISO around, waste another cover slot, etc., all for a character who is, (and this is becoming a theme here) obsolete.

Bacon Pants

Jozier calling someone annoying on the boards??

Pot, meet your friend kettle.

Unknown

2* is a lose-lose situation. It obviously doesn't help D3 because you wouldn't expect to get very many sales. It doesn't really have players either because unless you've character who are like pre nerf Wolverine powerful, they're all going to be obselete (often very soon) by 3*s. Right now, 2*s are kept relevent by the buffs, mostly in PvE events, but this is fairly a gimmick event. Ares, for example, is a very strong hero, but if he's only level 85 you'd still never use him over a level 141 3*. 2*s are only useful if they're buffed and in that respect we don't need more people to play the 'random buffed 2* of the event' roluette.

Unknown

jozier wrote:

gamar wrote:

jozier wrote:

IHatePVP wrote:

ANOTHER 3* character. There was no reason Falcon couldn't have been a 2*.

This game is alarmingly careening towards the point where the rare-to-any character ratio is 1:1. AND LazyDaken is still in the distance somewhere....

This is not a good plan. I'm gonna step away fom the game for a bit. See how I think/feel after some down-time.

...I'll check back in sometime in May.

There are plenty of reasons he couldn't have been a 2*. Namely that 2* are weak as hell and any 2* released is obsolete before it even drops.

2* need to serve a very specific purpose if they are going to be introduced into the game again.

Yeah dude Ares was a huge disappointment and everybody hates him and he never gets used

wait

You're getting very annoying on these forums but I'll break it down for you, slowly:

1) Ares was released 3 MONTHS ago. The game has changed significantly since then, to the tune of at least a half-dozen new 3*. When he was released, there was far more use for him. Now any new 2* just increases the difficulty in making the 2*-3* transition by diluting the pool as NP pointed out, and as immediately obsolete for anyone with 3* which was NOT the case when he was released, as there weren't as many useful 3* back then.

2) Ares is only used by people in the 2* to 3* transition or when he's buffed. To that end, you might as well just buff the current 2* and achieve the same purpose without releasing a new 2* and again diluting the pool for transitional teams

3) Did I mention the fact that Ares was released 3 MONTHS ago and that the game has changed significantly since then? No? Okay, I'll mention it again. It's changed. A lot. There are a LOT of more powerful characters out there. Good luck running Ares in high end PVP. You will be instantly attacked because he is not a deterrent to anyone but the 2* range.

4) It adds nothing for D3 because 2* characters are easier and cheaper to spec out and again, become obsolete much faster. There's no incentive to buy covers or tokens or ISO to cap a 2* when the goal is to move from 2* to 3*. That's ignoring the various gameplay issues above, there's little business sense to do it.

5) Adding 1*/2* characters again just makes it tougher for new players to focus. How many times have you used a 1* except for maybe M Storm outside of a 1* tourney or a Heroic since leaving the prologue? Never? Exactly. But add in another 1* for them to accumulate and it forces them to spread even more limited ISO around, waste another cover slot, etc., all for a character who is, (and this is becoming a theme here) obsolete.

The thing about it is though is that regardless of the star rating, the pool is getting diluted anyways. It's just one extra 3 star for a new player to free up a slot for. The way I see it is there are so many different 3 star characters out there now that if you are just starting out you are going to have maybe 1 or 2 covers of 5-10 different guys. The iso required to make those 3 stars viable (even above 2 star ) Is so much that it will take a lot longer than if they were able to get a decent 2 star maxed out. The way it's looking now is you have to go from 1* directly to OBW, Ares and Thor. Those are your only choices to use as a stepping stone up to 3* No other 2 star characters are really worth it. Whereas if you had more viable 2 star choices, you could have more options to move up instead of waiting for those specific covers and then moving up. The way you are talking makes it seem like you can just jump from 1* straight to 3*.

Unknown

sms4002 wrote:

The thing about it is though is that regardless of the star rating, the pool is getting diluted anyways. It's just one extra 3 star for a new player to free up a slot for. The way I see it is there are so many different 3 star characters out there now that if you are just starting out you are going to have maybe 1 or 2 covers of 5-10 different guys. The iso required to make those 3 stars viable (even above 2 star ) Is so much that it will take a lot longer than if they were able to get a decent 2 star maxed out. The way it's looking now is you have to go from 1* directly to OBW, Ares and Thor. Those are your only choices to use as a stepping stone up to 3* No other 2 star characters are really worth it. Whereas if you had more viable 2 star choices, you could have more options to move up instead of waiting for those specific covers and then moving up. The way you are talking makes it seem like you can just jump from 1* straight to 3*.

No, I had meant you can jump from 1* to Thor/OBW/Wolverine/Ares/C Storm (Thor/Wolverine/C Storm especially because their covers are handed out to an extent in the prologue. Also forgot Daken but just remembered him as well).

Adding in a new, event only 2* will dilute the pool because the only way to obtain those covers are by winning events or token pulls. Token pulls are already a bad bet, but the addition of a new 2* will make it that much harder to consolidate the 2* covers you are getting to start putting together a team.

There are plenty of useful 2* characters to help aid in any transition (the ones I mentioned above, and MN Mag/Bullseye/Ares).

That's a LOT of 2* that are useful. Add another and it again complicates things.

The only people clamouring for more 2* are people that have transitioned to 3* but aren't as high up in the end game. It's a selfish want. More roster diversity at a lower cost than a 3*.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

This is not the place for a "no more 2* characters" discussion.

I disagree entirely. The topic was brought up in response to the reward for The Hunt. It is an on-topic discussion, discussing whether Falcon should have been a 2* instead of a 3*.

Unknown

sms4002 wrote:

The thing about it is though is that regardless of the star rating, the pool is getting diluted anyways. It's just one extra 3 star for a new player to free up a slot for. The way I see it is there are so many different 3 star characters out there now that if you are just starting out you are going to have maybe 1 or 2 covers of 5-10 different guys. The iso required to make those 3 stars viable (even above 2 star ) Is so much that it will take a lot longer than if they were able to get a decent 2 star maxed out. The way it's looking now is you have to go from 1* directly to OBW, Ares and Thor. Those are your only choices to use as a stepping stone up to 3* No other 2 star characters are really worth it. Whereas if you had more viable 2 star choices, you could have more options to move up instead of waiting for those specific covers and then moving up. The way you are talking makes it seem like you can just jump from 1* straight to 3*.

The difference is that all 3* are meant to be balanced with each other in theory. The 2*s are not meant to be balanced to the 3*s at all. Let's say there are 50 3*s at some point. If they're all somehow balanced, your new player would say pick up 3 that he happens to have more covers, but he'd still want the other 3*s because they are useful for different things. Yes this isn't how the game currently works, but there's generally enough balance that you should at least think about expanding your roster of 3*s for some specific matchup/events. Having variety makes the game interesting, and it also makes D3 more money.

This is not true with 2*. Outside of the obviously way overpowered for her tier OBW, there's no reason you'd need to say pick up Ares just in case after you've some 3*s to work with. The only way 2*s are kept relevent is by event buffs/limited roster, and you don't simply pick up a 2* just in case something like that happens. So it doesn't really help the player, and it doesn't help D3 either.

morgh

1) please cut and paste the "no more 2*" posts into a relevant (new) thread ;>
2) More on topic - I think that the point value of all the repeatable nodes dropped SHARPLY after I did every node once... I am not sure since unfortunately I did not take note of the point values but I would suggest to bleed dry the most profitable nodes (ie - the "essential" ones) before doing the other nodes at least once

Meto5000

[Cross-posted from the Hunt for Falcon event thread]

jozier wrote:

1) Ares was released 3 MONTHS ago. The game has changed significantly since then, to the tune of at least a half-dozen new 3*. When he was released, there was far more use for him. Now any new 2* just increases the difficulty in making the 2*-3* transition by diluting the pool as NP pointed out, and as immediately obsolete for anyone with 3* which was NOT the case when he was released, as there weren't as many useful 3* back then.

2) Ares is only used by people in the 2* to 3* transition or when he's buffed. To that end, you might as well just buff the current 2* and achieve the same purpose without releasing a new 2* and again diluting the pool for transitional teams

3) Did I mention the fact that Ares was released 3 MONTHS ago and that the game has changed significantly since then? No? Okay, I'll mention it again. It's changed. A lot. There are a LOT of more powerful characters out there. Good luck running Ares in high end PVP. You will be instantly attacked because he is not a deterrent to anyone but the 2* range.

4) It adds nothing for D3 because 2* characters are easier and cheaper to spec out and again, become obsolete much faster. There's no incentive to buy covers or tokens or ISO to cap a 2* when the goal is to move from 2* to 3*. That's ignoring the various gameplay issues above, there's little business sense to do it.

5) Adding 1*/2* characters again just makes it tougher for new players to focus. How many times have you used a 1* except for maybe M Storm outside of a 1* tourney or a Heroic since leaving the prologue? Never? Exactly. But add in another 1* for them to accumulate and it forces them to spread even more limited ISO around, waste another cover slot, etc., all for a character who is, (and this is becoming a theme here) obsolete.

I agree with one point very strongly: Diluting the 2* pool makes it a lot more difficult to transition to a 2* roster for any new player. There are so many heroic tokens rewarded for various things that this is the main way a 1* player is acquiring new covers. Adding a 3* doesn't mean much to a person opening a lot of tokens since the chance to get ANY rare+ cover is already extremely low. However, when you add a new 2* character it adds 2-3 more covers to a pool already filled with a bunch of "expletive deleted you" tokens (Bagman, Moonstone, Bullseye, and Modern Hawkeye) and three almost usable but not quite there Captain America covers.

There is absolutely no reason to add a new 2* character without fixing some of the current bottom tier 2*s. I understand that there will always be certain characters that are better than others but even as a brand new player when I got my first Bagman token I couldn't convert it to ISO fast enough. So before the devs spend time and resources coming up with three brand new powers wrapped around a pretty 2* package, maybe they could fix/revamp/add some covers to the current sewer dwellers of the 2* bracket.

Unknown

Diluting the 2* pool doesn't mean much because 2*s are still far more available than 3*. Let's say we just cloned Ares a few times and call him Sera, Resa, Asre, Reas, and Sare. Pulling one of his 5 clones in a token is still no worse than pulling say, Bagman or Bullseye, and having those 5 clones in fact reduces the chance you'll get the more useless 2*s. But then when you get to the obligatory buffed characters or limited roster, imagine what would happen? It'd be like 'okay guys Reas and Sare are buffed in this event", and you'd look at your roster and find that you got Sera and Resa at 85 but of course they're not buffed in this event. You could level up Reas, but you know he's not really that useful outside of this event, and sure having a level 125 Reas would be useful but it's not something you absolutely need, so you probably wouldn't bother. There's no variety added and no additional revenue (because people can live without a minor buffed 2*).

morgh

(the offtopic about 2* is starting to become annoying - IMO moderators should act according to their name)

And people seem to be grinding those nodes for ~20-30 points lawl

And so the community scaling hits those who play by the rules ;-P