Heroics & Unlimited Rosters

DapperChewie

Before the change, people here complained endlessly about heroics and the limited roster selections.

Once they unlock the entire roster, and even after allowing mirror matches, people here complain about missing the limited rosters.

I get that the people who are complaining about one are different from the others, but still. Guess you can't please everyone.

Maybe they should bring back the limited rosters, but expand them a bit to include a few more from each tier. Lock out the 5s (and make sure scaling doesn't include those 5s) to make those with 5* rosters that complain about missing the lower scaling happy too.

Square-Chopper

Fightmastermpq wrote:

As one of the first and most vocal users to complain of 5* scaling I will say that it's not exactly unpleasant to play at the 5* tier, but it is definitely broken. I still enjoy the game, and I like finding new combos for my growing 5* roster....I just wish the scaling weren't so lopsided so that 5* players could be rewarded for their efforts as much as 3* and 4* players are.

I agree with this. The more variety you have in your 5* roster(which I understand is no small feat in and of itself), the less unpleasant it is. The problem with, as someone else mentioned, only using boosted characters to simulate the old heroics, is that we still have the 5* scaling in place.

Fightmastermpq

sh81 wrote:

You can limit your roster yourself if you enjoy the challenge

No you cannot. 5* scaling is so bad that it doesn't make it a challenge, it makes it impossible in many cases just to finish, let alone be competitive.

Square-Chopper

It's probably worth stating that for all of the forum's complaints about 5* scaling, it's not like it stops you from being competitive in most cases. I have 9 5* champs and I can honestly say that the ONLY time I don't take t10 in just about any PVE event is when I don't care enough to. I think the issue is that as a player you see 5* and think you're getting god mode, but it just gets more difficult instead. Having said all of that, I'd still love to see them at least lock out 5* from heroics even if they left the rest of the roster open.

Dormammu

At first the term 'Heroic' was used to communicate these events were far more difficult than their Prologue counterparts and the fact they had limited rosters was used to promote the rostering of all characters (which moved sales). They were also an easy way for the developers to add content in the early days of the game when the only story event they had was 'Red Iso'.

Then scaling came along and fundamentally changed Heroics (and PvE at large for the better). But Heroics could still be classified as 'harder' due to the limited rosters. Then the limited rosters were removed, and now Heroics are just... non-heroic. There's nothing particularly challenging about them at all. Grab Peggy, Strange, deny red, and Juggernaut + 2 goons becomes trivially easy.

The developers could block out the 5-star tier to appease the 5-star players, allowing them to play with their 4-stars at reduced scaling and enjoy some roster diversity like the rest of us. But that doesn't make them any more 'heroic' or challenging. Now, one could say we don't need them to be more challenging anymore - scaling makes all PvE difficult enough on a normal basis anyway, making the term 'Heroic' simply a relic of the past.

On the other hand, those limited rosters were fun. They just needed to be a bit more sensible. Too often we were stuck with 9 characters that all used the exact same 3-4 colors. That's stupid. With just a little foresight by the developers, those limited rosters could have had a lot more synergy. I know they're capable of it, because the developers have proven it with the Behemoth Burrito node in DDQ. They made me play with Wasp, 3Falcon, and 2Bullseye - a team I never would have thought up on my own - and really opened my eyes to the brilliant strategy of that combo, a team capable of handling foes far beyond their level.

That's what I'd like from Heroic events - a little puzzle to my puzzle quest, even if the developers have to bonk me over the head with it to make me realize there are strategies out there I haven't fathomed yet.

bbigler

I vote no because it forces you to formulate new teams, thus keeping the game interesting. But that also means that limited rosters should have easier villains.

El Satanno

I'm a "no" guy and direct your attention to pretty much exactly what the other "no" people have said here. Especially Fightmaster and his 5* gripes. I hate the 5* tier, though.

bigsmooth

DapperChewie wrote:

Maybe they should bring back the limited rosters, but expand them a bit to include a few more from each tier. Lock out the 5s (and make sure scaling doesn't include those 5s) to make those with 5* rosters that complain about missing the lower scaling happy too.

I agree with this. I believe right before they changed the rosters to unlimited, they had added 4* reinforcements, which was actually really helpful.

The thing I miss most about the old Heroic events is definitely coming up with new/interesting teams to test out their synergy. I felt like it added some variety to the game, and it was worth a temporary lockout of the same teams I always use. There were certainly a few events where the restricted list just didn't have any good teams available, but that was the exception rather than the rule.

GurlBYE

This is polarizing but its weird.

As far as the use new teams idea, the "other" teams you have rostered are not only still useable but boosted.

I also don't know that enough players are in the 5 star tier, vs people who just started.

It's like should the event be a slog for veterans who have 5's
Or should new players and players without most characters be insta-locked out.

Daredevil217

I voted for the old system having really liked being forced to use different characters I have invested in that just sit there. That said there have been many really great points in this thread so if I could I'd change my vote to indifferent.

As long as vaulting remains a thing, the heroics should probably stay as is.

Straycat

I think the idea that limited rosters=new teams=more interesting is overrated. I don't think it really puts puzzles into MPQ. I find it more interesting using new characters I haven't used much because I just got enough covers for them to get good, rather than the character combinations I haven't used. I used 4* Luke Cage a bunch the last few events because I only recently got some covers (thanks vaulting). Plus, the boosted characters change things up enough. Last event I didn't have any boosted 4* champs, this event I have 3.

To me, the puzzle comes from the characters themselves. Some characters inherently require more thought and planning to use correctly. In general, controlled board manipulators and tile buffers add the puzzle. Cyclops is my favorite character because he can be used in different ways and it matters where you use his powers. Someone like Red Hulk or Hulkbuster are not that puzzley, just straight damage pretty much.

I get bored a little by using the same teams all the time, so I don't. I don't change it up to artificially increase the difficulty, I do it because there are ways to make good teams aside from using the best characters. The best characters are generally rated that way because they go with everyone or generally go solo, but if you build a team around certain characters they can become useful.

TPF Alexis

The way the Heroics were restricted, I don't like, but I feel like there could be some cool potential in events with restricted rosters that were better themed. Enemy of the State does this to a tiny degree with Wolverine being locked out for most of it because he's been taken by the Hand, but it could be taken further. Pick a couple of dozen characters deliberately, making sure that there are some good teams in there and fluff reasons for them all to be working together on this, and go for it.

GurlBYE

Unless we're being given a roster (an event of yellow nodes for example), limited rosters won't work with this game literally chopping off about 2/3s of the higher tiered characters lol.

TPF Alexis

Good point. My suggestion would also require that the Nodes be designed with the selected characters in mind. One more reason that just doing them with whatever Characters happen to be boosted that week is a bad idea.

JBCDisco

Limited rosters were fun but scaling issues made the old heroics very unappealing to me. Would restricted rosters but with balance of power type character levels work, or would that blow up the scaling even more? I'd hat to face a level 900 jug.
It'd be kind of fun rolling in there with 1s and 4s on equal ground though, and would appeal to a larger audience while keeping the event's old vibe (Just no new characters releases attached to them...)

(Sidenote, I have lurked for soooo long, it's nice to finally throw something out there, haha)