Updates to Story Mission Minimum Points (3/28/17)

TLCstormz

For the 30 people that upvoted the OP......what exactly are y'all upvoting?

El Satanno

So long as there is competition involved, the only thing this change will solve is which nodes are going to be ground into the dust by the crazies chasing t5. This is assuming there is no tremendous change to the overall structure of Story events. Hell knows it is desperately needed, but that's another story altogether. Please continue to enjoy Marvel Schedule Quest.

vinsensual

If Hulk's pve didn't reward needed Medusa covers, I'd grind away that beginner node even at 0 points just to mess with the devs that are monitoring the data.

Philly484

I don't see this as a needed change since there is no statistical data provided for their response of playing "1,000+" missions was not healthy. I am sorry but you can't just say something is unhealthy without providing the data to back it up. I work as a Psychologist and while I know their can be health risk involved with playing video games for extended amounts of hours; without the data being provided I don't see where this change is even remotely coming from. Don't just cater to new players who are complaining they can't get the champs they want. Hate to say this but the "Gamer community" praises it's players for the amount of gaming time they achieve.

broll

I don't have a problem with the change, but I question why this is what they went with. If people are really doing more than 1000 fights I have to assume they are botting (which assume is against TOS). To do 1000 clears assuming 1 minute per fight it would take 16.67 hours. You really want me to believe that people are doing that manually and enough of them to make it a problem? Only way that's happening is scripts. Ban/sandbox the cheaters and problem solved... If they are botting as I suspect they'll find a way to continue.

GurlBYE

Philly484 wrote:

I don't see this as a needed change since there is no statistical data provided for their response of playing "1,000+" missions was not healthy. I am sorry but you can't just say something is unhealthy without providing the data to back it up. I work as a Psychologist and while I know their can be health risk involved with playing video games for extended amounts of hours; without the data being provided I don't see where this change is even remotely coming from. Don't just cater to new players who are complaining they can't get the champs they want. Hate to say this but the "Gamer community" praises it's players for the amount of gaming time they achieve.

I dunno man, I'm not praising anyone for doing something menial and mindless for hours of their time.

Beating something difficult or playing in a different way sure.

But i'm not impressed with someone just grinding the simplest node endlessly.

carrion_pigeons

broll wrote:

I don't have a problem with the change, but I question why this is what they went with. If people are really doing more than 1000 fights I have to assume they are botting (which assume is against TOS). To do 1000 clears assuming 1 minute per fight it would take 16.67 hours. You really want me to believe that people are doing that manually and enough of them to make it a problem? Only way that's happening is scripts. Ban/sandbox the cheaters and problem solved... If they are botting as I suspect they'll find a way to continue.

When you can beat the easiest node in one move, it definitely doesn't take a minute. You could conceivably get it down below 15 seconds.

JVReal

Philly484 wrote:

I don't see this as a needed change since there is no statistical data provided for their response of playing "1,000+" missions was not healthy. I am sorry but you can't just say something is unhealthy without providing the data to back it up. I work as a Psychologist and while I know their can be health risk involved with playing video games for extended amounts of hours; without the data being provided I don't see where this change is even remotely coming from. Don't just cater to new players who are complaining they can't get the champs they want. Hate to say this but the "Gamer community" praises it's players for the amount of gaming time they achieve.

My theory is that D3 doesn't want people playing the game for 10+ hours straight. There must be some data out there, or else Nintendo wouldn't put it in their instructions to not play the game for extended time. There wouldn't be a reminder on their game systems to stop and take a break from gaming. Did you look for the data? Did you do research to understand why?

Normally I wouldn't point this out, but you used the fact that you are a trained and practicing Psychologist as reason for us to believe your opinion, with no supporting documentation yourself that it is healthy.

DeNappa

I'm still baffled by the fact that people actually play nodes hundreds of times. I'd go insane.

Anyway, the issue at hand... This measure looks like they're just fighting symptoms. They should address the root cause instead; either scrap placement for PVE, or replace the scoring system with something that makes actual sense instead of 'play as quickly/timing-optimally as possible'. I don't have a suggestion ready, but I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one whizz by in the suggestions forum.

broll

carrion pigeons wrote:

broll wrote:

I don't have a problem with the change, but I question why this is what they went with. If people are really doing more than 1000 fights I have to assume they are botting (which assume is against TOS). To do 1000 clears assuming 1 minute per fight it would take 16.67 hours. You really want me to believe that people are doing that manually and enough of them to make it a problem? Only way that's happening is scripts. Ban/sandbox the cheaters and problem solved... If they are botting as I suspect they'll find a way to continue.

When you can beat the easiest node in one move, it definitely doesn't take a minute. You could conceivably get it down below 15 seconds.

I haven't timed it but I have a problem believing that. If you're doing it manual you have:
Click the node.
Click start.
Click no changes to TU
Intro animations
(The fight)
Victory animation
Score animation
Click ok

All of that with the fight excluded takes more than 15 seconds. I couldn't see this getting below 30 seconds which is still 8 hours of grinding if someone is doing it manually

DCUDCU

As somebody who used to do play this game competitively, I understand the concerns but think once people actually take a step back they'll enjoy it more by playing less. I'm sure people don't want to hear it, but it's very true. My roster is shown in my signature. I do pve progression and 575 ish per pvp in a lazy way.

I haven't missed grinding pve ever, once I stopped.

Stax the Foyer

TLCstormz wrote:

For the 30 people that upvoted the OP......what exactly are y'all upvoting?

Movement in the right direction.

I don't understand why everything doesn't decay to 0, and this won't completely fix the situation, but it'll deter some tappers, and that's a net positive change.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Kmjakob

I see the points system is the same as before i dont get what chanced? I see when i do 4 fights i get full score. And the 2 last is not full score

pheregas

Lots of good things being discussed in this thread. I can agree with much of it. Frankly, the new change does not affect me at all. I will still play to be t20/t50. I will still hit my 4-clear as fast as possible. I will still 6-clear all the nodes for that XP. I will continue to try and play a game for amusement purposes.

I have almost never ground a node to 1, let alone hit it over and over again. I simply do not have the time or patience for that.

That being said, the people that are doing that are probably in the t10 anyway. If they want to grind, grind, grind for that cover, who am I to judge them? It does not affect my placement because they already had more points than me.

I believe that people should be responsible for their own actions. I abhor restrictions based on some "big brother" deciding what is best for me. People that want to be competitive, in game or real life, will always find the loophole and exploit it. If they want to work the system that bad, let them. If the devs don't like loopholes, close them.

Lastly, this all becomes moot with the removal of competition based PVE. Like many others have stated above, we need a new Progression-Only system. A previous poster (I'm too lazy to look up who) stated that they felt a sense of accomplishment the first time they hit progression. I would like to echo this sentiment. I was ecstatic to do so. Now, I feel nothing at hitting progression and even less when I am 50% above progression just to hit that aforementioned t20/50. Why not keep that feeling? Why not increase the maximum reward, unlocking new rewards with each CL level or SHIELD rank? Make every node full points every time. Let those that want more rewards work for them or just stop when they've gotten all that they wanted. There will always be something new to strive for. The upper rewards would be 4/5* characters that lower CL/SHIELD ranks wouldn't be able to use anyway, so why tease them with it?

Move the bar higher, don't hold it the same height so we can keep walking into it. Sooner or later, you'll just walk away and forget the headache.

mohio

Pants1000 wrote:

It seems a lot of people don't see this was being abused, and how this really does fix it.

To abuse this, you need to do optimal clears on all but the easiest node, then grind that easiest node hundreds of times before the final grind. There is opportunity cost, you lose out the points you could get from optimally grinding the easy node. It depends on the sub, but let's say it's 200 points. If you could grind the easiest node in 30 seconds, it would take 100 minutes of grinding it to make that up. Spend 200 minutes doing it and you're 200 points higher than an "optimal grind".

Now doing it with the 2* essential, the opportunity cost is higher because it's worth more points. Again it depends on the sub, but let's say it's worth 400 points. Because it's the 2* essential, you can't really use the Thanos/healers strategy. It would take too many health packs. 1 minute per round is probably more realistic, so now it takes 400 minutes of grinding instead of 100 minutes to match an optimal grind.

Some people are willing to spend a few hours to do this, but 8+ hours is another story.

If anyone actually did this and wants to correct my numbers, feel free, but I think they're in the ballpark. I'm sure some subs would be easier to abuse than others, particularly subs with 2-3 point minimum goon-only nodes.

This seems about right, the only thing I would add is that it changes if you let the nodes refresh any before you start grinding out 1-pointers. For instance if you complete your 4 clears and then wait 12 hours before you start grinding out 1 pointers, then you will hit the node for 5/6x, 1/2x, and 1/6x and in that case you only have to "make up" 1/2x by 1 pointers. I agree with your assessment overall though. It is far too much effort to grind even an easy essential goon node in the amount needed to make it worth doing points-wise. With the exception of if you've got a bot that can do it for you, so maybe we'll see who has them?

mpqr7

Make all minimum node values 0.

grunth13

broll wrote:

carrion pigeons wrote:

broll wrote:

I don't have a problem with the change, but I question why this is what they went with. If people are really doing more than 1000 fights I have to assume they are botting (which assume is against TOS). To do 1000 clears assuming 1 minute per fight it would take 16.67 hours. You really want me to believe that people are doing that manually and enough of them to make it a problem? Only way that's happening is scripts. Ban/sandbox the cheaters and problem solved... If they are botting as I suspect they'll find a way to continue.

When you can beat the easiest node in one move, it definitely doesn't take a minute. You could conceivably get it down below 15 seconds.

I haven't timed it but I have a problem believing that. If you're doing it manual you have:
Click the node.
Click start.
Click no changes to TU
Intro animations
(The fight)
Victory animation
Score animation
Click ok

All of that with the fight excluded takes more than 15 seconds. I couldn't see this getting below 30 seconds which is still 8 hours of grinding if someone is doing it manually

I am going to put this out there. I DID THIS!!! Do you know why I did this? Well, lets look at my roster...it's in my signature. I have some of the best characters that take down enemies in pve in the fastest time. I optimally cleared every sub at the beginning and finished the first 4 clears almost 5-10 minutes behind, depending on cascades, compared to the guy who was first after 4 clears every sub. His team consisted of all 4's, his highest 4 was in the 298-300 range. Because his scaling is much lower than mine, even with Dr. Strange and Black Bolt putting a ton of passive damage on the enemy team, I still couldn't finish before my bracket mate who is still in the 4 star realm. Is that fair? I happened to have time this weekend to play like this while watching tv and at work. So I hit that node hundreds of times because it usually was 1 to 3 matches which took maybe 30 seconds (I did not use a bot). I did this for all the subs. First sub for 3 hours, 2nd sub for 7-8 hours off and on, and 3rd sub for about 4-5 hours off and on. With all this extra playing, I won by a grand total of 170 to 200 points. The problem is scaling which makes me have to play this way to even have a chance at beating a 4 star player. If the 4 star player did the same, I have no chance...ZERO!!! How is that fair? Now they have essentially made sure that any 5 star player will never get 1st unless they get a bracket where the 4 star players just don't care. That is not good game design. The 5 star players have been saying this for over a year that scaling in pve is an issue, and no one seems to care but us. We CANNOT win without hitting that node hundreds of times or if the 4 star players don't play it optimally...that is a FACT. Now let the hating commence...

Pongie

grunth13 wrote:

I am going to put this out there. I DID THIS!!! Do you know why I did this? Well, lets look at my roster...it's in my signature. I have some of the best characters that take down enemies in pve in the fastest time. I optimally cleared every sub at the beginning and finished the first 4 clears almost 5-10 minutes behind, depending on cascades, compared to the guy who was first after 4 clears every sub. His team consisted of all 4's, his highest 4 was in the 298-300 range. Because his scaling is much lower than mine, even with Dr. Strange and Black Bolt putting a ton of passive damage on the enemy team, I still couldn't finish before my bracket mate who is still in the 4 star realm. Is that fair? I happened to have time this weekend to play like this while watching tv and at work. So I hit that node hundreds of times because it usually was 1 to 3 matches which took maybe 30 seconds (I did not use a bot). I did this for all the subs. First sub for 3 hours, 2nd sub for 7-8 hours off and on, and 3rd sub for about 4-5 hours off and on. With all this extra playing, I won by a grand total of 170 to 200 points. The problem is scaling which makes me have to play this way to even have a chance at beating a 4 star player. If the 4 star player did the same, I have no chance...ZERO!!! How is that fair? Now they have essentially made sure that any 5 star player will never get 1st unless they get a bracket where the 4 star players just don't care. That is not good game design. The 5 star players have been saying this for over a year that scaling in pve is an issue, and no one seems to care but us. We CANNOT win without hitting that node hundreds of times or if the 4 star players don't play it optimally...that is a FACT. Now let the hating commence...

No hating here but lets look at it from the other side of the coin... in pvp where 5* rosters easily work their way to 1200 points and beyond taking up all the top ranks. Where as the 4* rosters and below have little chance of catching (I'm not saying zero, cause I'm sure it can be done, just like how farming easy node for 1 point allows you to overtake). All for what? 1-2 4* cover and season ranks. Is it not the same argument there to remove place rewards and make the whole game progress only? No more losing points, play when you want, everyone gets their progress rewards.

Edit: I've always wondered what drives a 5* roster to wanting more than a cover of any newly release 4*? In pvp, your MMR force you to use 2x 5* with the required 3* anyway. As long as you get at least 1 cover of the 4*, you're not locked out in the next pve where is it an essential. Are you not blitzing through the main path with 3x 5*? What good is a slightly more covered 4*, when you have already transitioned into 5*?

EstherC

Those fellas grinding up to a 1000 times must be those hired help by the mega whales who have nothing to do but grind for their paymasters

NMANOZ

If they only have progressive rewards, the point systems can change.

You can beat each node 6 times (1 point for each clear), meaning 54 points each sub mission. If it is a 3 day event then the rewards could be as follows (level 8):

54 points: 3 star cover

108 points: 3 star cover

135 points: 4 star cover

162 points (all clears): 15 Command Points

You will have the usual HP and Iso rewards in between.