Understanding shields

TimGunn

dsds wrote:

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Why come up with some crazy cooperation method to deal with a problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place. Then when they patch it so you can't, you think of other outside solutions to exploit the system again. Also in cooperation, you are limited to what you can do for instance, you can't attack certain people when unshielded, you play only when the big points people play. There are so many rules to this outside cooperation which the average user has no knowledge of. Do you not see how unfair this is?

.....

I see why you are saying it is unfair, but I disagree. Any player can join an alliance that does cooperation, learn the cooperation methods and play by them (all of those alliances recruit on forums). It's not exclusionary per se, you just have to do the research to figure things out. Similar to how when you first start playing you might spend HP to buy a token, but 3 weeks later realize from reading the forums that the best strategy is to save all HP for roster spots. Yes, players that do the research and learn the best strategies do have an advantage!!!

dsds

TimGunn wrote:

I see why you are saying it is unfair, but I disagree. Any player can join an alliance that does cooperation, learn the cooperation methods and play by them (all of those alliances recruit on forums). It's not exclusionary per se, you just have to do the research to figure things out. Similar to how when you first start playing you might spend HP to buy a token, but 3 weeks later realize from reading the forums that the best strategy is to save all HP for roster spots. Yes, players that do the research and learn the best strategies do have an advantage!!!

I never said it excluded anyone. I didn't join because I didn't want to exploit the game to gain advantage over others who didn't know about this exploit. This is because I had principal, I don't follow a group that is in the wrong even if it benefited. At first I played the game because I wanted to beat people who were paying since I was never a paying player ever. And I did sometimes, but then I realized that this outside cooperation is way more unfair than the pay to play model and that I would never be able to complete against the players cooperating outside the game. And that's when I decided I didn't want to be part of the problem and make it worse for other new players. Now that I am not playing the game, I can be more honest and not worry about alliances attacking me in game for my opinions. At the very least, at least in the pay to play model, they are directly supporting the game financially. The cooperation outside of the game is just plain selfishness.

Which option below do you think is more fair?

1.) A group of players cooperating outside the game that is unknown to most of the player base that gain a significant advantage over others. They take the top spots and reach most of progression with significantly less effort.
2.) A game that fixes the root problems with pvp so everyone is playing on a fair level field. You fight 5 fights, you are much more likely to be more ahead than someone who fights less.

Why do people have to join some group that isn't even sanctioned by the game itself in order to succeed? Your analogy to buying tokens instead of slots is completely wrong. A more likely analogy would be someone playing the game and wanting to find shortcuts, so they google how to game the system and find out about shield check rooms, etc. And then realize that the game can't enforce this unsanctioned exploit and thus you can freely do it without consequence.

The thing that bothers me the most is that you think you guys are doing a favor to us? Are you kidding me? It is pvp, it means if you win, someone loses, do you not understand that fact? The game developers have said that only a certain percentage should reach progression prizes. And ranking system also ensure only a certain amount of players get the top rank prizes. So the reason you cooperate with others outside is to exclude others from gaining top prizes pure and simple. Yes more people hit progression, and guess what happens? Yes that's right the developers would make it harder to gain higher prizes, or dilute the value of prizes earned at the top.

Now with the current new changes, it actually amplifies this problem because now you can exploit the game, gain more prizes and those prizes have gotten better. This was my breaking point.

zodiac339

What percentage are the developers axpecting I wonder? It looks like maybe 1% make 1200, and 5%, maybe a little more, make 900 points. The number of players making season progress looks maybe an even smaller percentage, though it's hard to tell how much of the player base actually participates in PVP. Two ULTRON members made 10K for the first time this season, putting them within about the top 200. 200 players making full progress. That feels like a pretty poor percentage. Maybe that's just my PVE perspective talking with approaching 10% of players getting full progress, but that's about 100 players per bracket per event over 5 starting times with usually 1 turnover per bracket, making over 1000 players per event (I'm estimating pretty low there) getting full progress vs 200 players from the entire player base.

acescracked

dsds wrote:

Disclaimer: I quit playing this broken game a month ago. Came back to check if any of the problems got fixed. Nope nothing at all.

Lack of understanding a game mechanic doesn't make the game broken. Sure, it could be more intuitive but it's not broken.

You opened a new thread awhile ago saying there was a bug. When all it was you didn't understand how im40's recharge CDs would work when flaptain's passive was triggered. You went silent in the thread when it was pointed out.

Point is game's not broken, just takes a little more understanding.

acescracked

OP, you'll never hold t5 stopping 14 hours out. Many people late climb and 14 hours is an eternity.

Hoping at the end of an event is very tricky. Limit yourself to 1 match, verify targets PvP score, and use boosts.

dsds

acescracked wrote:

dsds wrote:

Disclaimer: I quit playing this broken game a month ago. Came back to check if any of the problems got fixed. Nope nothing at all.

Lack of understanding a game mechanic doesn't make the game broken. Sure, it could be more intuitive but it's not broken.

You opened a new thread awhile ago saying there was a bug. When all it was you didn't understand how im40's recharge CDs would work when flaptain's passive was triggered. You went silent in the thread when it was pointed out.

Point is game's not broken, just takes a little more understanding.

Yes we all make mistakes, like the time you misinterpreted my point in this thread and then turned it into a personal attack by pointing to a small mistake I made from a month ago that has nothing to do with the current thread.

I wasn't talking about my imaginary bug, I was referring to pvp still being broken. There's no way anyone would expect to gain 5 points and then lose several times that amount for winning a match. That just makes no sense. If you win a match, in the majority of video games, you should have a net gain in points. Really if you think that receiving a net loss in points for winning match is not a broken mechanic and just a misunderstanding of game mechanics, then can I interest you in buying my broken down car? I must not understand how to drive it so if you buy it, surely you can get some use out of it. Not running is probably just a part of the mechanics of it right?

Ducky

Please keep discussion on topic of the OP and keep things civil. Thanks!

Dayv

zodiac339 wrote:

What percentage are the developers axpecting I wonder? It looks like maybe 1% make 1200, and 5%, maybe a little more, make 900 points. The number of players making season progress looks maybe an even smaller percentage, though it's hard to tell how much of the player base actually participates in PVP. Two ULTRON members made 10K for the first time this season, putting them within about the top 200. 200 players making full progress. That feels like a pretty poor percentage. Maybe that's just my PVE perspective talking with approaching 10% of players getting full progress, but that's about 100 players per bracket per event over 5 starting times with usually 1 turnover per bracket, making over 1000 players per event (I'm estimating pretty low there) getting full progress vs 200 players from the entire player base.

When you're looking at a season leaderboard, that's only 5000 players, and all from one clearance level. So you're not talking about 200 players in the entire game reaching season progression, you're talking about 200 players in that set of 5000. That's 4%, sure, but was it a lower clearance level? People in higher clearance levels tend to score higher.

I have no idea what percentage of players do clear progression overall, but for competitive, daily players it's probably higher than you suspect.

You can get PvP season progression by hitting 850 points in each PvP event and banking 1500 in the Shield Sim. Maintaining this kind of target will take a little work at first, but as you get used to the flow and systems of PvP it will get easier, whether or not you choose to use outside coordination.

Dayv

There's a PvP guide over in the Tips and Guides section of the forums that could be a big help. It's a little out of date (some of the progression numbers are different now, probably some other little points), but it's still accurate -- PvP hasn't had as many basic mechanical overhauls in the last year or two as PvE has.

acescracked

dsds wrote:

acescracked wrote:

dsds wrote:

Disclaimer: I quit playing this broken game a month ago. Came back to check if any of the problems got fixed. Nope nothing at all.

Lack of understanding a game mechanic doesn't make the game broken. Sure, it could be more intuitive but it's not broken.

You opened a new thread awhile ago saying there was a bug. When all it was you didn't understand how im40's recharge CDs would work when flaptain's passive was triggered. You went silent in the thread when it was pointed out.

Point is game's not broken, just takes a little more understanding.

Yes we all make mistakes, like the time you misinterpreted my point in this thread and then turned it into a personal attack by pointing to a small mistake I made from a month ago that has nothing to do with the current thread.

I wasn't talking about my imaginary bug, I was referring to pvp still being broken. There's no way anyone would expect to gain 5 points and then lose several times that amount for winning a match. That just makes no sense. If you win a match, in the majority of video games, you should have a net gain in points. Really if you think that receiving a net loss in points for winning match is not a broken mechanic and just a misunderstanding of game mechanics, then can I interest you in buying my broken down car? I must not understand how to drive it so if you buy it, surely you can get some use out of it. Not running is probably just a part of the mechanics of it right?

Oy Vey, this is exactly why I pointed out the other thread. You have a preconceived notion on how things should work and when you don't understand spread misinformation.

You want the game to not allow more than one other player to hit you when hopping. That would be the most exploitable mechanic ever. Have someone start a match against you as soon as you break. Free shield for as long as you like.

This is a free to play game, many ftp games have ways to promote spending money. PvP is MPQ's way of doing that by promoting purchase of covers via packs to make your roster stronger. Many players enjoy the competition.

Again, because you don't want to understand that or don't like the way PvP is doesn't make it broken.

I'm not personally attacking you. We don't need negative comments. Please refrain from that.

supbullcoc

For those of you that gave solid input I thank you. I think I got my answer within the first few posts before it was hijacked

Mods, feel free to lock this thread

beyonderbub

Maybe this thread should be renamed: "NOT Understanding Shields"

dsds

acescracked wrote:

dsds wrote:

acescracked wrote:

dsds wrote:

Disclaimer: I quit playing this broken game a month ago. Came back to check if any of the problems got fixed. Nope nothing at all.

Lack of understanding a game mechanic doesn't make the game broken. Sure, it could be more intuitive but it's not broken.

You opened a new thread awhile ago saying there was a bug. When all it was you didn't understand how im40's recharge CDs would work when flaptain's passive was triggered. You went silent in the thread when it was pointed out.

Point is game's not broken, just takes a little more understanding.

Yes we all make mistakes, like the time you misinterpreted my point in this thread and then turned it into a personal attack by pointing to a small mistake I made from a month ago that has nothing to do with the current thread.

I wasn't talking about my imaginary bug, I was referring to pvp still being broken. There's no way anyone would expect to gain 5 points and then lose several times that amount for winning a match. That just makes no sense. If you win a match, in the majority of video games, you should have a net gain in points. Really if you think that receiving a net loss in points for winning match is not a broken mechanic and just a misunderstanding of game mechanics, then can I interest you in buying my broken down car? I must not understand how to drive it so if you buy it, surely you can get some use out of it. Not running is probably just a part of the mechanics of it right?

Oy Vey, this is exactly why I pointed out the other thread. You have a preconceived notion on how things should work and when you don't understand spread misinformation.

You want the game to not allow more than one other player to hit you when hopping. That would be the most exploitable mechanic ever. Have someone start a match against you as soon as you break. Free shield for as long as you like.

This is a free to play game, many ftp games have ways to promote spending money. PvP is MPQ's way of doing that by promoting purchase of covers via packs to make your roster stronger. Many players enjoy the competition.

Again, because you don't want to understand that or don't like the way PvP is doesn't make it broken.

I'm not personally attacking you. We don't need negative comments. Please refrain from that.

Yes you were. If you can refer back to the old thread you were. And I was just getting you back on that one.

I agree that the game has to make money. This is why I am suggesting changes. The game is making money now, but it could make a lot more by making small changes. And of course I think players aren't exactly jumping for joy at how pvp is right now. I am just throwing suggestions out there, but maybe they can have a new shield. One that minimizes points loss. So for instance, you shield, and then when you shield hop, you use a different shield that shields you from points loss for 3 matches. It doesn't shield you completely from points loss, but it has a maximum number of points you can lose. So if you are slow in your match, you still lose points, but to a maximum number like 25. This also would infuse more points into the bracket. Of course the higher the points you have the higher the maximum points you can lose. So at 1000, the max would be 50 and at 1200 the max is 75, etc. This at least will encourage new players to play and hit the 575 target.

zodiac339

Well, I only recently learned that the 3 shield types are on separate cooldowns. I felt so dumb. Hit my 900 after accidentally pushing 3 hour shield with 6 hours to go. Lost a bunch of points before noticing only the 3 hour was on cool down.
Now "shield hopping" makes more sense, going with a 3 hour/5 hour play schedule to make points, breaking the 8 hour once the 3 is refreshed. Heavy gold drain though.

DarthDeVo

A small change I think could help the shielding system immensely would be to have the shield break AFTER you play your first match.

That way you get at least one match in before being visible to everyone. So if the match doesn't go your way and takes longer than you thought, you don't run the risk of winning 30 points (or less) only to come out and see you've lost 100 or more.

And I wouldn't think it to be too exploitable because if you start the match and then just sit there, sure you're still shielded and not visible to other players, but you're also not earning points either since you're not finishing the match.

cletus1985

DarthDeVo wrote:

A small change I think could help the shielding system immensely would be to have the shield break AFTER you play your first match.

That way you get at least one match in before being visible to everyone. So if the match doesn't go your way and takes longer than you thought, you don't run the risk of winning 30 points (or less) only to come out and see you've lost 100 or more.

And I wouldn't think it to be too exploitable because if you start the match and then just sit there, sure you're still shielded and not visible to other players, but you're also not earning points either since you're not finishing the match.

What's stopping me from starting a match and then leaving the game open until the final seconds to finish the match? One last points boost and an unlimited shield if I so choose.