More Iso Please

OneLastGambit

The new Vaults has its positives and negatives. The positive? We can cover new characters quicker - Yay! The negative? Actually there's quite a lot here so I'm not gonna discuss them all (there's plenty of threads for that) I'm gonna focus on one...Iso.

So yesterday morning I pulled my final 4Cage cover - Yay! Immediately after I pulled another - Yay! It took from his release until about a week ago to get him to 2/4/3 and then I pulled all his remaining covers in the last couple of days. Sweet!

Now the issue is because I was working on another champ (hello carnage) and then I had an expiring MK in my queue so I worked on him I have never levelled cage at all (as I'm in the habit of only levelling people who are immediately useful). So now I have 13 days to go from level 70 - 270 (378k iso in case youre curious). This means is need 29k a day on average to make it on the last day and make sure his cover doesn't go to waste.

Now I can reasonably get... 10k per day from pve, 5-13k a day from intercepts (I know steam players...I know) 5k from DDQ that still leaves me short - from average play.

So my options are - Forget that I have a GF, 6 year old son and 2 jobs and just continuously yo-yo in pvp to keep earning iso and make up the shortfall.

Or

Let the cover expire.

My options should never be that binary. And they weren't before. Before the change to tokens It's not that likely I would have pulled 2 cage covers in a row - I would likely have pulled something else and not been almost forced to start this stupid champ run. Devs wanted to decrease token dilution but in doing it the way they did they created another iso shortage. Increase the amount of Iso in all game modes please and then when we do cover those illustrious 12 (as you would like us to) we can actually champ them and get rewards from them before they rotate out.

EDIT: Changed figures for iso requirement- Thanks for the correction guys - I'm off to give my calculator a computer virus as punishment.

Magic

I agree. The vaulting (and the ease to get the latest covers) has made the main observation more obvious then ever - the game needs more iso. We should get double iso as a standard with occasional double-iso events (new double).

Or make the covers never expire.

It takes about 2-3 weeks of above average (but not life threatening) play to get enough iso to champion a character. Everybody hates selling covers so this new vaulting encourages more hoarding.

Yoik

Also agree. I level as and when I have one viable to. Recent changes have ment that I now have a long queue to do. Which is nice but it now gives the appearance that im even more iso starved then usual even though I didn't have enough in the first place so im no different really.

Anyhoo. I think the figure to level a 4 star from 70 to 270 inc the 12,500 fee for champing is more like 378k. Which is 29k ish a day which is still a lot

Fightmastermpq

You don't need any more ISO now than you did before, you just need a little time to refocus your priorities on newer characters. In fact you need less ISO because there is really no reason to champ Carnage (or hardly any of the older 4s) at this point.

Magic

The reason I need more iso is that I am now more likely to pull a cover that will die on the vine if I don't have the iso handy. I am not playing too much (ok - a bit as this is addiction) and my latest are rather well covered already. Previously I was able to pace myself much better with the championing speed compared to iso gains.

Peggy - Championed
Wasp 5-3-4
Spider Woman 5-3-5
Luke Cage 5-4-3
Gwenpool 4-5-3 with a cover on the vine already and only 60k ISO in the bank.
Blade 2-3-2
Venom A 0-5-4
Medusa 5-3-3
Captain Marvel - Championed
Riri 1-3-4
Mordo 1-1-3
Coulson 1-2-3

Out of 36 covers I can pull i can't use 8 at all (22% of the pulls - how that compare to my 5% chance of a bonus?). Granted most can still be used for cover levels but soon I will have more cases like Venom or Medusa when I am missing covers so there is no way to champion them and the covers go to waste. In the previous system I had all of the same options for the 12 above but also 22 other Championed 4 to make the covers usable. So my main risk was drawing Venom or Mr Fantastic or Electra. In reality a chance of me pulling a "waste" cover was 28% according to quick calculation. Two more pulls (say Riri for 5th green or Venom for 5th Yellow) that don't go my way and the chances will be worse then in the previous system.

This change has taken me completely off my game and I am currently struggling with the new approach. Should I champion all of them (only Peggy will rotate out after next season so I have a month with all 11 of them) as the covers come. Maybe I should ignore Wasp (the update seems nice) and SpiderWoman as they will rotate soon? I have already sold some of their covers from the initial pulling rush of the 2017 (that got me Captain M to champion). In reality I have sold a lot of covers in the last week or so. Too many for my liking.

My petition: give us non-expiring covers (colorless doesn't solve the main problem). Otherwise this system is fully blown encouragement to hoard CP and LT (for 4* players - i am not referring to 5* game).

Quebbster

Fightmastermpq wrote:

You don't need any more ISO now than you did before, you just need a little time to refocus your priorities on newer characters. In fact you need less ISO because there is really no reason to champ Carnage (or hardly any of the older 4s) at this point.

The ISO needs to be refocused though. I have all fourstar prior to the last dozen champed already (and a few from the last dozen champed too), so the increased rate of aquisition for new covers means I have to level them up sooner rather than later, putting more strain on my ISO bank.

Pongie

Yes more ISO please!

My current list of expiring covers are 2 spider woman, 2 gwenpool, venom (bound to be 2 soon since his cover is coming up in pvp) and Kate. All are currently max covered but sitting at lvl 120.

7 days ago I had literally <10k in ISO. Somehow I managed to build up 438k (helps when 2x 2* farm were sold, though I did spend it to build up another). That allows me to champ 1 now, and easily 2 if I continue this rate and earn another 287k. However, I was going to attempt 3 and try for 650k in 11 days. Been holding on to top 1 in eots in main and subs, but if ultron has less ISO than a typical pve event, that may make it out of reach. I do have 2 more 2* farm that's close to selling, but I still don't think that will be enough.

Markot

Magic wrote:

Or make the covers never expire.

I agree with this. It should be very easy to implement and it could solve lots of problems (even not usable covers for non cover maxed 5* - just keep them until you finaly max cover and champ the hero). If there was only one option from:
a) colorless covers
b) never expiring covers
I would vote for b). But I'd like both.


And I say that even when I have ISO income above average players. I champed my first 4* during last anniversary (October 16, 2016) and now I have 27 of them champed. Few of them were lvl 200 (needed 254k iso), others were at lower levels. Moreover I champed both new 3* and leveled all new 4* to levels around 130. Together, it was close to 9 mil. iso invested in less then 5 months.

Fightmastermpq

Magic wrote:

The reason I need more iso is that I am now more likely to pull a cover that will die on the vine if I don't have the iso handy. I am not playing too much (ok - a bit as this is addiction) and my latest are rather well covered already. Previously I was able to pace myself much better with the championing speed compared to iso gains.

Peggy - Championed
Wasp 5-3-4
Spider Woman 5-3-5
Luke Cage 5-4-3
Gwenpool 4-5-3 with a cover on the vine already and only 60k ISO in the bank.
Blade 2-3-2
Venom A 0-5-4
Medusa 5-3-3
Captain Marvel - Championed
Riri 1-3-4
Mordo 1-1-3
Coulson 1-2-3

Out of 36 covers I can pull i can't use 8 at all (22% of the pulls - how that compare to my 5% chance of a bonus?). Granted most can still be used for cover levels but soon I will have more cases like Venom or Medusa when I am missing covers so there is no way to champion them and the covers go to waste. In the previous system I had all of the same options for the 12 above but also 22 other Championed 4 to make the covers usable. So my main risk was drawing Venom or Mr Fantastic or Electra. In reality a chance of me pulling a "waste" cover was 28% according to quick calculation. Two more pulls (say Riri for 5th green or Venom for 5th Yellow) that don't go my way and the chances will be worse then in the previous system.

This change has taken me completely off my game and I am currently struggling with the new approach. Should I champion all of them (only Peggy will rotate out after next season so I have a month with all 11 of them) as the covers come. Maybe I should ignore Wasp (the update seems nice) and SpiderWoman as they will rotate soon? I have already sold some of their covers from the initial pulling rush of the 2017 (that got me Captain M to champion). In reality I have sold a lot of covers in the last week or so. Too many for my liking.

My petition: give us non-expiring covers (colorless doesn't solve the main problem). Otherwise this system is fully blown encouragement to hoard CP and LT (for 4* players - i am not referring to 5* game).

You don't need more ISO, you just need to stop pulling for a season or two, let some characters rotate out, and then use the ISO you've saved up to champ what you need to as you start going through your hoard. From there you just continue to open, apply champ levels, and champ new characters as they become covered. You don't need ISO, you need time. Give it a couple months and you will find yourself in a position where you NEVER have pulls dying on the vine.

Straycat

I feel the new system has made wasted covers easier to deal with. Since there are only 12 its easier to get another one. I pulled a Spiderwoman Red (4/4/12, sold a bunch of red), and started saving up iso to champ her. I also pulled my 14th Kingpin from the taco vault. He needs much less iso total since I leveled him up a long time ago. If I focused on him instead I would be fairly confident I could pull another Spiderwoman (which I did, from a heroic token).

If I sold the kingpin, I know I am only wasting 1 cover since he's vaulted. I only spent a taco token on him, so that's not a big waste there. He will come up again eventually from 3* Bullseye, selling his cover is basically getting a several week extension on his expiration timer. If that Kingpin was unusable, it would be easy to sell too. Unless I was ready to buy covers with cp, I know that there's nothing I can do to finish him, so I'd have to sell.

That being said, I need a ton of iso too. I need 500k in 2 weeks to avoid selling covers. I would prefer never expiring covers, or make it so you can roster a dupe and later apply that cover to a different character. As people have pointed out, time is the real resource we need to manage. I am still opening tokens right now hoping to get some Kate (got 2 so far) and Moonknight (none) covers before they vanish.

OneLastGambit

Fightmastermpq wrote:

You don't need any more ISO now than you did before, you just need a little time to refocus your priorities on newer characters. In fact you need less ISO because there is really no reason to champ Carnage (or hardly any of the older 4s) at this point.

I was almost at the end of champing carnage (he was at 260 when the change happened) so it seemed like a massive waste of iso to stop. Of course I wouldn't do any of the old guard now but that didn't fix the problem I had and it wont fix the problem I have when I inevitably make 2 x characters ready for champing very quickly due to the fact that the pool is smaller and CP flow is pretty plentiful these days. I could hoard but I'm not much of a hoarder and don't tend to enjoy the way the community seems to.

OneLastGambit

Yoik wrote:

Anyhoo. I think the figure to level a 4 star from 70 to 270 inc the 12,500 fee for champing is more like 378k. Which is 29k ish a day which is still a lot

The correct figure to go from 70-270 for a 4* is 430,464 iso + 12,500 (champ fee) = 442,964 (total) so it's actually worse than I first calculated as I forgot about the fee

This is 34k per day.

GrumpySmurf1002

Magic wrote:

The reason I need more iso is that I am now more likely to pull a cover that will die on the vine if I don't have the iso handy. I am not playing too much (ok - a bit as this is addiction) and my latest are rather well covered already. Previously I was able to pace myself much better with the championing speed compared to iso gains.

<snip>

This change has taken me completely off my game and I am currently struggling with the new approach. Should I champion all of them (only Peggy will rotate out after next season so I have a month with all 11 of them) as the covers come. Maybe I should ignore Wasp (the update seems nice) and SpiderWoman as they will rotate soon? I have already sold some of their covers from the initial pulling rush of the 2017 (that got me Captain M to champion). In reality I have sold a lot of covers in the last week or so. Too many for my liking.

The bolded part is the answer to the top part. As fight said, this stage of the game is about completely refocusing your priorities and hoarding resources to take maximum advantage of the tokens over the next few months.

Yes, that means you're gonna burn covers. That's stinks from a completionist's stand point, but if you step back and realize a Wasp or AVenom wouldn't be a priority anyway, then you'll see that they were (likely) gonna die on the vine either way.

To give a personal example, after burning my hoard to the ground I was sitting on 13 Wasp covers, 11 Gwenpool, 8 Blade, 7 Cage, then a couple stragglers. I champed Gwenpool, am almost done saving for Blade, and Wasp/Cage will die while I focus on Carol/Medusa/my 5*. Excess AVenom and Riri are gonna die. Obviously anyone older that's not champed burns as well.

The overall scope of the plan is that (based on current release rates) I expect Peggy is out in 28days, Wasp/SW probably in 56, and Cage probably in 84. So I'm focusing only on quality characters that I feel safe will still be around in 3 months, and applying a combination of investing/hoarding to take maximum advantage of those pulls.

My personal iso flow should put me at 3.1M by the end of 84 days. That's enough to finish Carol/Medusa/Mordo/Coulson/Strange/Panther/Thanos. (assuming proper luck on those last 3, otherwise that iso can go to the new releases).

So in 3months I expect to be nearly caught up already, and by 4-5 months I should be well ahead of pace. If you earn more iso than me, then it's even faster, if you don't then it's somewhat slower. The point is as long as you can keep pace with 4* releases now (so earn rate > 27000 iso per day), you should overtake the current system.

GrumpySmurf1002

OneLastGambit wrote:

Yoik wrote:

Anyhoo. I think the figure to level a 4 star from 70 to 270 inc the 12,500 fee for champing is more like 378k. Which is 29k ish a day which is still a lot

The correct figure to go from 70-270 for a 4* is 430,464 iso + 12,500 (champ fee) = 442,964 (total) so it's actually worse than I first calculated as I forgot about the fee

This is 34k per day.

Um, no it's not. 430k I think was the old rate. With the champ costs it's 378,396.

Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=2

Fightmastermpq

OneLastGambit wrote:

Yoik wrote:

Anyhoo. I think the figure to level a 4 star from 70 to 270 inc the 12,500 fee for champing is more like 378k. Which is 29k ish a day which is still a lot

The correct figure to go from 70-270 for a 4* is 430,464 iso + 12,500 (champ fee) = 442,964 (total) so it's actually worse than I first calculated as I forgot about the fee

This is 34k per day.

Magic

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

The bolded part is the answer to the top part. As fight said, this stage of the game is about completely refocusing your priorities and hoarding resources to take maximum advantage of the tokens over the next few months.

Yes, that means you're gonna burn covers. That's stinks from a completionist's stand point, but if you step back and realize a Wasp or AVenom wouldn't be a priority anyway, then you'll see that they were (likely) gonna die on the vine either way.

To give a personal example, after burning my hoard to the ground I was sitting on 13 Wasp covers, 11 Gwenpool, 8 Blade, 7 Cage, then a couple stragglers. I champed Gwenpool, am almost done saving for Blade, and Wasp/Cage will die while I focus on Carol/Medusa/my 5*. Excess AVenom and Riri are gonna die. Obviously anyone older that's not champed burns as well.

The overall scope of the plan is that (based on current release rates) I expect Peggy is out in 28days, Wasp/SW probably in 56, and Cage probably in 84. So I'm focusing only on quality characters that I feel safe will still be around in 3 months, and applying a combination of investing/hoarding to take maximum advantage of those pulls.

My personal iso flow should put me at 3.1M by the end of 84 days. That's enough to finish Carol/Medusa/Mordo/Coulson/Strange/Panther/Thanos. (assuming proper luck on those last 3, otherwise that iso can go to the new releases).

So in 3months I expect to be nearly caught up already, and by 4-5 months I should be well ahead of pace. If you earn more iso than me, then it's even faster, if you don't then it's somewhat slower. The point is as long as you can keep pace with 4* releases now (so earn rate > 27000 iso per day), you should overtake the current system.

I see your point and it was my thinking as well. I didn't have much of an issue hoarding before and I will hoard again until I am ready. Meanwhile working on what I can. Don't like the change but I will keep playing.

OneLastGambit

Fightmastermpq wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Yoik wrote:

Anyhoo. I think the figure to level a 4 star from 70 to 270 inc the 12,500 fee for champing is more like 378k. Which is 29k ish a day which is still a lot

The correct figure to go from 70-270 for a 4* is 430,464 iso + 12,500 (champ fee) = 442,964 (total) so it's actually worse than I first calculated as I forgot about the fee

This is 34k per day.

I stand corrected! I have an iso calculator on my computer that calculates all levels of iso needed. I guess it must be out of date.

SnowcaTT

Fightmastermpq wrote:

You don't need any more ISO now than you did before, you just need a little time to refocus your priorities on newer characters. In fact you need less ISO because there is really no reason to champ Carnage (or hardly any of the older 4s) at this point.

Very true! And it goes to show JUST HOW BAD vaulting is. "30 of your characters are now pointless!"

So many "need more ISO" threads because of vaulting as well. Maybe if there was something that could be done with covers instead of tossing....like -champing- but not getting champ rewards unless you've already paid the ISO to get them to a higher level.

Hendross

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Give her 1 ISO, what sort of monster are you?

TimGunn

could you please edit your original posts so that other people don't get confused by the outdated ISO costs?

also your math seems to leave out any ISO from PVP. Do you not play PVP? If you have 4 star champs, you can easily reach 500 in PVP. 30,000 ISO per day is achievable.

bbigler

Fightmastermpq wrote:

You don't need any more ISO now than you did before, you just need a little time to refocus your priorities on newer characters. In fact you need less ISO because there is really no reason to champ Carnage (or hardly any of the older 4s) at this point.

Champing Carnage is a good idea, nobody likes to face him in PvP, especially if boosted. He's got the fear factor like Peggy.